December 2002 - zorn-list - mailman.xmission.com

Re: But is it stealing?
by Herb Levy 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

Nvinokur(a)aol.com wrote: >However, if one purchased an LP, thereby paying the mechanical rights, >shouldn't the record co. replace that LP for free with a CD, since the record >co. changed the listening format. Now if you want to replace the format, the >mechanical rights are paid twice for the same music. If your 1998 car came with a cassette player as standard equipment and the 2003 model comes with a CD player as standard, the manufacturer doesn't have any obligation to retrofit the earlier car for free. No publisher has an obligation to replace the hardcover book you own with the newly released paperback copy. Your choice to upgrade (if that's what it is) to CD is your choice, not the company's responsibility. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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The English language -- a long, painful extrusion
by William Crump 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

The absolute first thing I want to do here is thank everyone for whom English is a second language and who works hard at reading and writing it, speaking it and understanding it spoken. As you probably learned after your first few interactions with Americans, you work harder at the language than we do -- we who allegedly grow up with it as our first language. My wife has stepped back and forth between the dual careers of doing journalism and teaching journalism at the college level, and the stories she tells drive me to the edge of despair. One student in particular seemed to embody the problems that exist in many young people working today in print and broadcast media. He was articulate -- glib, even -- but his written work was full of howlers like "for all intensive purposes" and "visa vee" (instead of vis-a-vis). Pique, peek and peak were all the same to him, spelled differently depending on the day of the week. What weak grasp he had of English he gained conversationally, not through study of the written word. He admitted that he had never read for pleasure and wasn't about to start. I'd like to say that this idiot washed out of the journalism program and went on to a great career in standup comedy, but in fact, he was working at a small daily as a staff writer before he finished school, despite all the bad grades my wife could throw at him. He was confident and personable, not phone-shy, and could turn a school board meeting into twenty inches of editable copy quickly. America's newspapers are full of him and his kind. He probably won't ever have trouble getting a job. But he could hold the written English language in one hand and a steaming pile of pigshit in the other and not know the difference. Now, to pull this all together. Dave Douglas is obviously an articulate guy. >From the few interviews with him that I've read, he chooses his words very carefully. Coincidentally, I'm the same way. I've had occasion to be interviewed for stories three times in my life, and I was a sweating, shaking mess afterwards each time, because I was so nervous about being misheard or misquoted. If I were Dave Douglas, a working professional in music, subject to being interviewed several times a year -- or if I were Skip Heller, Ellery Eskelin, Stephen Drury, David Slusser, you name it -- IF I was one of those people, AND I knew what William Crump knows about young working "journalists" -- I'd consider chucking it all and getting a job behind the counter at McDonalds, rather than risk any part of my career in their hands. The fact that they don't speaks highly of their commitment to their work. If I were Dave Douglas, I'd be nervous and irritable at interviews too. If I thought American interviewers were bad, I might be even more defensive and precise when interviewed by someone for whom English is not their first language. Most likely a foreign interviewer will work harder to be precise than an American interviewer, but how can he know that going into the interview? All he can do is use language as precisely as possible. Not wanting his words to be rephrased (and thereby possibly misinterpreted) may be an effort to maintain that precision on both sides of the Q/A divide. I don't blame Samuel Delany for insisting on written interviews over spoken ones. Now, some specific points: >From: Fritz Feger <mail(a)fritzfeger.de> > > If I want to know if someone understands what I say it doesn't make any > sense to let him repeat what I say. The only way to figure that > out--granted I am interested in the slightest--is to let him rephrase it, > isnt't it? It's true that depth is only achieved by two+ points of perspective. If I stand in front of a house and say it's a white house, and you're standing behind it and the back side is painted red, then you might think I'm sadly misinformed or dangerously delusional. (Thank you, Robert Heinlein!) Efren's rephrasing can be seen an effort to shed light and bring depth via two-point perspective. But the interviewee may be concerned, often rightly so, that the interviewer is only viewing the matter from their perspective and not coming over to look at the house from THEIR side. This is why an interviewee might conceivably bristle at rephrasing. > And to make my interviewer working harder after him saying not > even a whole sentence: I beg your pardon. Response A: I don't know you mean by this. We may be working with a partial language barrier here. (Please note that I'm going out of my way not to rephrase it for you. I'll simply announce my confusion and let you provide the rephrasing, and thus the second point of perspective.) Response B: I don't know what you mean by this. We may be working with a partial language barrier here. Is the "I beg your pardon" part you begging my pardon, or DD begging EdV's pardon, or EdV begging DD's pardon? Or something else? (In this version, I provide the second point of perspective. Which is better?) > If DD had considered Efrén's > English as dangerously weak (why should he?) there would have been many > more polite / didactic / operational ways to tackle that. I agree. But in a world where John Zorn can get away with the rudeness he gets away with, I found Dave Douglas' responses blunt, but not outright rude. Best, William Crump

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Townes Van Zandt (was Re: Really Eerie Music)
by thesubtlebody 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

> From: "Andrew" <ahorton(a)vt.edu> > Don't feel bad. I spent 30 minutes the other day > talking a friend's ear > off about (and recommending) "Townes Van Zandt" - > only to get home and > realize that I had actually been talking about Van > Dyke Parks. :) That's very funny, I've done worse than that...filibustering for an artist at length, then popping them on a week later and finding that I don''t enjoy said record anymore. (This actually happens often to me with films: recollection and impression and rumination can start to create some critical dissonance.) But if it's any consolation, I personally think you did your friend a favor; Van Dyke Parks is great, but Townes Van Zandt is absolutely great. I read somewhere that he briefly worked on an abortive collaboration with Sonic Youth. Where dd I read that? Could that be true? I think it didn't work out because he died prematurely. ------s np: John vanderslice, TIME TRAVEL IS LONELY nr: Donna Tartt, THE SECRET HISTORY __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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RE: Really Eerie Music (I.E..)
by josephneff 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

Hello, ....I find both of Patty Waters ESP albums to be quite eerie, especially the first one. The first seven tracks on "Sings" have a wickedly broken, last night on earth quality which leads to the hair raising explosion that is "Black is The Color of My True Love's Hair". The second is a recording of performances, from a tour of New York State Colleges, and it looses some of the eerie quality of the first (though that's not a comment on overall goodness. Both discs are monsters), but it still has some goose-fleshy moments. Seconds (thirds, fourths?)on Blind Willie and Robert Johnson, Skip James, and Throbbing Gristle. I remain.... Joseph NP: Patty Waters- "College Tour" CD (not quite as eerie w/ snow-reflected sunlight blasting through my windows, though) NR: Dave Eggers- "You Shall Know Our Velocity"

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Re: Really Eerie Music (R.E.M.)
by Kris Visser 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

Thanks all for telling me about your eerie music expierences. I will listen to it all. I also have some things to add to my own list. These are some things which are eerie to listen to at night when you leave the lights off: Sun Ra - Atlantis, titletrack from Atlantis-album Pj Harvey - I think I'm a mother + titletrack from To bring you my love album Swans - Public castration is a good idea -album Godspeed you black emperor - Rockets fall.. from the new album + the coney island song from Levez voz 2CD other really eerie stuff: early Whitehouse, In particular the "New version" of Her entry on dedicated to Peter Kurten-album is horror. Also the Buchenwald + Erector -albums Ennio Morricone - Una Lucerto... some very eerie, atonal cuts that will haunt you forever like a nightmare. - ill gatto a nove code/cat o'nine tails. esp. 2nd track called '1970' = atonal bass, eerie female voice and the eerie sound of a chair Kronos Quartet - 'Doom, a sigh' from their Black Angels album. I think all trax on the album are really eerie, but this one in particular. The first time I heard it, it almost gave me a heartattack! This is the most eerie piece I know. yours, Kris Visser

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Re: Radical Jewish Culture
by Herb Levy 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

Efrén del Valle <efrendv(a)yahoo.es> wrote: >Hi, > >First of all, probably my English doesn't allow me to >express myself as I'd like to and that can lead to >some misunderstandings. The issues are not entirely clear even for those of us who are native speakers of American English, so don't worry about this. As you note there is no clearly stated editorial policy for any of the series released as part of Tzadik's program. I don't have as much of a problem with this as you seem to (I may just be less interested in the categories used to split up music in various ways) which may have made it more difficult for me to understand your points in this discussion. For me, the fact that, say, discs by Elliott Sharp or Alvin Curran are part of the Composer series rather than RJC (or, for that matter, that discs by Yuji Takahashi or Mamura Fujieda are in the Composer Series rather than New Japan) makes the distinctions a little more clear rather than more problematic. It might help if you were to think of each of the various series that Tzadik releases as sort of self-defining; the aggregate of the discs released clarifies the focus of the series. >If Zorn has planned the series without preconceptions >as someone said, then the fact of publishing some >musicians on the Composer Series and some others on >the RJC Series would also be pointless. There must be >some kind of guidelines or criteria for him to >stablish such a division in those particular cases. A >division that isn't clear to me at all for the same >reasons I mentioned in previous e-mails. What makes >Shrek or the Selfhaters more likely to be included in >the RJC than, say, Elliot Sharp's string quartets? It seems to me that composer-selected content is a key here. Ribot & Coleman do think of their projects as being related to Jewish culture. Sharp's string quartet's DO have cultural content (math theory for one thing) but this content is not specifically related to Judaism. >And >above all, if the term "Radical" is not related to >politics at all (which is something I agree with), >then what makes Tim Sparks so artistically radical? Of >course, by saying "purity" I wasn't implying that >"radical" is a synonymous term at all but they're >supposed to take off from the roots of Jewish folklore >to create something new that makes the music "radical" >in some way or another. What's so radical in "Klezmer >Madness" or "Diaspora Soul", I don't know. As I wrote earlier, the aesthetic radicality of any particular musical item is a matter of taste & prior knowledge more than anything else. Looking at the actual releases of the RJC series, it's clear that taking "off from the roots of Jewish folklore" is only part of it. The autobiographical details of the CDs by Shelley Hirsch or Kramer for instance, aren't exactly folklore. >Besides that, and considering what the current >political panorama is like, I think that a good choice >of words is really welcome in these cases. Two simple things. The political panorama in the US is quite different from the panorama in Spain. &, as far as the series of CDs goes, after 70 releases it's too late to change the name. >Not that >you have to be in favor of political correctness, but >a newcomer reading "Radical Jewish Culture" does not >immediately think of "a new form of music created by >Jewish people". When I think of "Radical" not only >Merzbow comes to my mind but also some other negative >connotations that are not necessarily related to >culture despite the inclusion of that word in the >categorization. This is one of the "roots" of the difference we're having here. & it does have to do, in part, with your English. In American English "radical" is often used to describe a kind of change from, rather than a kind of continuity with, some form of tradition. Although, the etymology of the word could imply the latter, the common usage of the word frequently is not meant in that way. >An example that I've lived closer to: The Basque >country "issue". There is some sort of "radical >musical movement" there and and when you refer to that >musical expression, you can only think about the >message (support to terrorism, etc...) because the >music itself is not exactly edgy or difficult or >radical, imho. It's more about what it implies and >perhaps that's why my vision of the RJC is a bit >distorted or influenced by movements like the >aforementioned. And when you're included in such a >group you cannot expect to avoid controversy unless >you're ready to give clear explanations about what you >really want to say. Understood. But Jews in the US are not Basques in Spain. There are few Jewish separatists running around the US with guns and bombs, & fewer still who also listen to recordings released by Tzadik. Looking back at your interview with Dave Douglas: you might find it helpful to look at his notes to the Witness CD, he talks some about his views of how music and politics can interrelate. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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Re: Dave Douglas' interview tetchiness
by Fritz Feger 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

At 12:01 05.12.2002 -0600, William Crump wrote: >I read Douglas' interruptions as "We may be working with a partial language >barrier here. Please don't rephrase what I'm saying in order to understand >it better, but rather, work harder to understand it AS I SAID IT." If I want to know if someone understands what I say it doesn't make any sense to let him repeat what I say. The only way to figure that out--granted I am interested in the slightest--is to let him rephrase it, isnt't it? And to make my interviewer working harder after him saying not even a whole sentence: I beg your pardon. If DD had considered Efrén's English as dangerously weak (why should he?) there would have been many more polite / didactic / operational ways to tackle that. Best, Fritz

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Re: Radical Jewish Culture
by DAN KUEHN 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

JZ may offer some guidelines to the musicians he asks to contribute to the RJC series, but I'm sure he gives them complete freedom to do ANYTHING they want, once he's decided, as musicians, they fit his definition. My guess is nothing is rejected once it's been commissioned. (I assume all of this series are commissioned works...) After all, it's the same freedom he demands of directors when doing his music for film. Consequently, "Radical Jewish Culture" is just a takeoff point, a spark, with NO preconceived direction or definition. Dan --working on a Radical Lutheran Culture project :-) --still listening to the Larry Young 1973 Perception label reissue, Lawrence of Newark (Radical Arabian Culture?) w/ Blood Ulmer and so many guys I never heard of - I can't get enuf of this!

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Re: When Rolling Stone turned bad
by Herb Levy 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

When they stopped using the multi-section tabloid non-binding and began using stapled "saddle-stitch" binding. Definitely the beginning of the end. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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naked europe city tour?
by Jorge Gallegos 07 Dec '02

07 Dec '02

anybody know shit about a Naked City Europe reunion tour this summer? so is the word. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

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