December 2002 - zorn-list - mailman.xmission.com

John Zorn Electric Masad Barbican England
by Alan Marshall 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

Hi, I got a music events leaflet from The Barbican today, John Zorn Electric Masada with Marc Ribot + Roberto Rodriguez Septet with David Krakauer is playing Sunday 20 July 7.30. Tickets are available from http://www.barbican.org.uk/, or box office 020 7638 8891 Al admars(a)ntlworld.com www.admars.co.uk

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Re: In C
by Perfect Sound Forever 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

> From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36(a)sprynet.com> > > I haven't heard the Chinese version or the Acid Mothers version, but I do > have one unusual version in my collection, a rock-oriented guitar swarm > performance by art-punk band the Styrenes, formerly of the same Cleveland > scene that coughed up Pere Ubu and now based in New York. (That one is on > Enja, of all labels...) And it would have been really nice if someone had > recorded the all-DJ and electronics version at the Lincoln Center Festival a > few years ago... Jason Gross, weren't you at that one? Yes sir, present and accounted for. That was July 2000 for Lincoln Center's Electronic Evolution series. That particular evening was at the Center for Ethical Culture. There was a large ensemble performing "In C," including Pauline Oliveros, Robert Moog and Donald Buchla, turntable crew the X-Ecutioners, and electronic versions of tablas, trumpet, marimba and harp. To be honest, it was a nice tribute but it sounded better in theory than in practice to me. The original is just so sublime. I do appreciate the Bang on a Can version and the Acid Mothers' version is fun. Digging up what I wrote about the Lincoln Center ensemble... " the original recording of Riley's piece -- which consists of musical ebbs and flows leading to a series of climaxes -- is more frenetic and stirring than the live performance (was). The electronic group was much smoother and controlled in comparison. Also, though there was a fascinating range of equipment on display, you only heard each instrument for a few seconds during the introduction; it was a shame to only have these brief glimpses." Granted, the point of the piece is not individual instruments but it seemed like a waste to have an interesting display of them there and not being able to truly appreciate them. Oliveros did a great rendition of "Roll Out the Barrel" in the beginning and the crowd loved it. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine with warped perspectives perfect-sound(a)furious.com http://www.perfectsoundforever.com

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RE: Zorn CD covers (was Re: Radical Jewish Culture)
by Crowmeat Bob 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

um, yeah. That's sort of what Ise were saying. Speaking for myselves, that is. >From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner(a)butler.edu> >To: "'Crowmeat Bob'" <crowmeat(a)hotmail.com>, ><zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: RE: Zorn CD covers (was Re: Radical Jewish Culture) >Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 18:55:38 -0500 > > >> it could be just too easy to read christian iconography into any old >image, particularly involving martyrdom, because it seems to have formed >a monopoly on the idea. Or mother and child, or armageddon, >what-have-you. It's a system of religious capture that includes many >aspects of previous >religions, and in some modern forms, even adopts new ones to retain its >control or continue its spread. > >There could be some Jungian archetypes at play. These symbols are >common to all people and, subsequently, all religions. Either we have >proof positive of the collective unconscious or another incidence of >what is tantamount to Christian marketing--creating an image to which >people will respond such as lifting superficial (referring to the >surface and ignoring deeper meanings, not implying shallowness) pagan >iconography. This imagery youse guys (English needs a plural you >pronoun like vosotros or Uds., so I will use philly slang) speak of as >Christian is too ambiguous for an accurate assessment. > >Zach _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Baptista's Beat
by patbor 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

Hi to all, I was wondering how Cyro Baptista's BEAT THE DONKEY is- Would anyone recommend it? Has anyone written a review of it? Thanks, Patb

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Re: naked europe city tour?
by Andreas Dietz 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

probably these reunion rumors will never die... planned is a european tour of Electric Masada in June/July. Andreas np: Youval Micenmacher - Fera Feza (Hopi) >SUPPOSEDLY it is being planned >for a handful of dates in June 2003. > >that is all i know. > >anyone else? > >Ferris?..........Buehler? _________________________________________________________________ FotosÂ - Â MSN Fotos das virtuelle Fotoalbum. Allen Freunden zeigen oder einfach ausdrucken: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx

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Re: Radical Jewish Culture (lengthy)
by Herb Levy 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

Fritz Feger <mail(a)fritzfeger.de> wrote: >Herb, I'm sorry of being (co-)responsible for redundancies in your posting, >and to contribute to talking issues to death. > >I did neither mean nor say that me or anyone else will read Zorn's use of >the term "radical" ONLY politically, or that it has to be understood >STRICTLY in its political sense. You are reading that into my remark that >"it would be naive to believe that it isn't read politically". Why didn't >you read it like: "by some and maybe among other readings"? That is how I >meant it. (I'm tempted to quote Dave Douglas with his advanced interview >technique, but I won't) > >My own (hypothetical) political reading of RJC's "radical", for example, >resulted from my inability to figure out in which other e.g. musical or >"cultural identity" or whatever sense it could be intended. In case that, >as you "wrote earlier, the aesthetic radicality of any particular musical >item is a matter of taste & prior knowledge more than anything else" (what >one could well dispute, but I won't), then I can claim for me the right to >find RJC music not overly radical, or at least less radical than certain >non-RJC Zorn disks, can't I? To set that straight: I'm perfectly fine with >Zorn calling a CD series RJC, and I'm aware that you cannot change such a >label after a bunch of instances. I just had this unexplainable desire to >learn what this is meant to tell me. Maybe I should rather be peacefully >waiting until suddenly the, as you put it, "sort of self-defining" process >occurs. > > >If you try to reconcile your theory with the actual practice you're > >supposedly analyzing, you'll find a lot of practice that this particular > >theory fails to take into account. > >As Wittgenstein wrote, Look to the use. > >Are you trying to tell me that my use and understanding of "radical" is >"theory", and yours is not only the same as Zorn's (inevitably so by the >two of you being American?) but "actual practice", as if there were only >one actual, i.e. right practice? If you like to rely on Wittgenstein on >that matter, you'd better respect my "European" discourse (and Zorn, who >has travelled Europe and sells I don't know how much of his records over >here). But anyway I don't believe that there's so much of a difference in >the use of the term in Europe and America as you imply: some Germans have a >radical haircut too, and "radical animal rights activist" or "radical >muslims" refers to the same kind of people/non-lingual practice on both >sides of the Atlantic ocean. > >Just for the record. Even the latest Wittgenstein knows to tell adequate >use from inadequate. To advocate an account where the meaning of a concept >is determined by its use doesn't mean that I am free to use the word >"radical" in some sense which I pick to my taste. On the contrary: a >meaning theory of use demands that my use of "radical" is the same use as >(one of the) uses other speakers fancy. You may not leave the game; there >is no private language with Wittgenstein. If this is true, then you could >simply teach us Europeans what the American Zorn means by "radical". Go ahead! > > >I also suspect that the definition of what Zorn includes in the series > >may have drifted over the years: while he may have had some more strict > >ideas early on, these ideas may have loosened, to the point where the > >title is a quite effective marketing ploy which he'd be a fool to drop. > >That may well be the case. I don't mind. I'm simply curious what it was >intended to transport some day. > >Fritz Fritz, Earlier in this discussion, I proposed that the phrase "Radical Jewish Culture" is primarily a marketing term for a subset of discs released by Tzadik. For better or worse, what the phrase "really" means is that series of discs, regardless of whether the three component words of the phrase accurately reflect the content of the series. Any theory or analysis of what the phrase "really" means that doesn't explain the inclusion of all the discs in the series must, by definition, be wrong. The series is the practice being analyzed, not the name of the series. Quibbling about the accuracy of the term after many years and 70 discs is pointless. There are many disc in that series that I don't care for, and many that I don't think are particularly radical. There is some overlap between these two categories, though if I thought about it, I'm sure I could come up with several discs in the series that I liked but did not think were radical and vice versa. That's a matter of taste. Whether or not I think a particular recording in the series is "radical" based on my experience of other music I've heard, if its in the series, it's part of "Radical Jewish Culture." My sense of the words "radical" "Jewish" and "culture" is entirely irrelevant to the inclusion of any music that's in the series. If you have questions about why Zorn chose a particular recording to be in this series rather than another, you'll have to ask him. If you want to know why Zorn picked those three words, you'll have to ask him. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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Re: Painkiller live / Thanks for the Turntable pointers
by Arthur Gadney 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

Hi, >I think it was Downtown Music Gallery that said Zorn mentioned a new >version of Painkiller would be playing at his birthday celebration at Tonic >next year. I know Mick is not going to be part of it as of now, so we >speculated on drummers. The best suggestion I heard was Dave Lombardo...I >see, though, that yesterday and today, Zorn, Laswell and Ikue Mori were >playing at the Pit Inn in Japan. Maybe this is the new line-up? As much as >it's not really Painkiller, imo, I'd be curious to hear this line-up. It >could be really good... Recently someone posted the link for a new Zorn interview, where he mentioned that he was planning a Painkiller tour in Japan, so who knows.... But Mori playing Painkiller!? Doubt there will be very much "Guts of a Virgin" material! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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In C
by serge dautricourt 08 Dec '02

08 Dec '02

hello, can anyone recommend a good version(s) of IN C by Terry Riley (how many recordings of this piece are there out there anyway?) I have a copy of one, but have no idea what group it is because i got it from the internet. I see that both Bang on a Can and the Acid Mothers have versions out. . . serge _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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Re: But is it stealing?
by Nvinokur＠aol.com 08 Dec '02

08 Dec '02

In a message dated 12/7/02 6:02:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, herb(a)eskimo.com writes: > If your 1998 car came with a cassette player as standard equipment > and the 2003 model comes with a CD player as standard, the > manufacturer doesn't have any obligation to retrofit the earlier car > for free. > I don't believe that I paid mechanical rights for a cassette player

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Classical recs - Mahler & Webern
by Herb Levy 08 Dec '02

08 Dec '02

I'm slowly getting through all the recent digests & had some questions that one of y'all may have an answer to. Back in the days of vinyl there was a CBS two-LP release of Boulez conducting, I think, Mahler's Das Klagende Lied, it was some vocal with orchestra song cycle anyway & it took up 3 of the four LP sides. On the fourth side was Boulez conducting the Adagio from Mahler's 10th symphony. Does anyone know if this recording of the Adagio has been released on CD? Also, does anyone know if the sixth disc of the complete Webern box on DGG (orchestral works conducted by Boulez) - this is the disc with of chamber works including the 4 pieces, 3 little pieces and the piano variations - was ever released as a single disc in Germany or elsewhere. I'm happy with the versions I have of most of the Webern I've got, but am very interested in getting this last disc of the box. & let me second Steve's recommendation of the Quartetto Italiani recordings of the Beethoven quartets; they're really really great. Thanks, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb(a)eskimo.com

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