July 2011 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

IDA rudder
by Karen and Smiley 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

I just re-fitted my new to me Monty 15 with an IDA rudder and combo mast crutch assembly. I am sorry I did not use the stock rudder to give you a better comparison and the reason for my switching was more about trailering convenience of not removing the rudder assembly and having the mast crutch bolt on simply by removing one screw set assembly. Now that I have the IDA rudder I can appreciate the UP/Down mechanism and so far the blade has performed wonderfully. It seems like a very nice upgrade but my feelings are I could not compare performance to the old one and my performance comparisons would have needed to be done in strong winds when you'd expect rudder stall anyway. Good luck with your decision to change, I am very happy with mine. Smiley M 115 #616 Another Wrinkle. Smiley magoo252(a)comcast.net

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Snuffer
by Hale Irwin 10 Jul '11

10 Jul '11

I sailed my previous boat - a Pearson 27, single handed often with a drifter. The trick is to have a snuffer. Your sail maker can get it for you - mine was an ATN and it made launching and retrieving the large drifter easy (most of the time). http://www.atninc.com/sleeve_en.php SEMPER FI ........ Hale M-15 "Tun Tavern: (soon to be delivered )

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Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
by Larry E Yake 10 Jul '11

10 Jul '11

Tom, The nut is fixed onto the threads in the Johnson Lever Lock turnbuckle. My backstay has a rigging eye for the toggle to attach to. Regarding using a split backstay adjuster, there doesn't seem to be as much advantage to slacking the rig for downwind running when you have a furling headstay. At least that's been my experience. Larry On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:11:16 -0700 Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> writes: > Gary, > As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought > > is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on > the > bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device > > doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay > (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the > turnbuckle > in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. > Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more > > closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. > As > I say, we shall see. > > http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm > > > On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote: > > > Tom: > > How will you attach it to the backstay? > > ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote: > > > >> Gary, > >> I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple > >> solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than > >> one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can > >> see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could > >> find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to > be > >> about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in > mind. > >> > >> Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or > >> stainless steel is pricey? > >> > >> http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602| > >> 298804&id=205004 > >> > >> Best Wishes, > >> Tom > >> > >> On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote: > >> > >>> Tom: > >>> Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price? > >>> > >>> ~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde > >>> 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote: > >>> > >>>> Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire > sizes, > >>>> and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be > > >>>> replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct > >>>> "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. > >>>> Tom Jenkins > >>>> 2004 M17 Scintilla > >>>> > >>>> On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the > >>>>> headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best) > >>>>> > >>>>> Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for > > >>>>> the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not > included) > >>>>> > >>>>> Fair winds > >>>>> Bob > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > >>>>>> From: tjenk(a)gte.net > >>>>>> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 > >>>>>> Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi gang, > >>>>>> I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my > >>>>>> M17 '04 > >>>>>> model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not > >>>>>> definitively 5/32? > >>>>>> (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true > >>>>>> figure? > >>>>>> The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Tom Jenkins > >>>>>> M17 Scintilla > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > >>>>>> montgomery_boats > >>>>>> > >>>>>> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the > Internet! > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > >>>>> montgomery_boats > >>>>> > >>>>> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the > Internet! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > >>>> montgomery_boats > >>>> > >>>> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the > Internet! > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > >>> montgomery_boats > >>> > >>> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >> > >> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! >

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Video link
by Larry E Yake 10 Jul '11

10 Jul '11

Here's a link to a video I took during the San Juan / Gulf Island cruise of a MacGregor 26M running a tidal rapid. Boat Passage is a gap through Saturna Island where you can cautiously take a boat through from Winter Cove to the Strait of Georgia during high slack tide. It is not recommended at any other time, and certainly not when this guy went through. Larry Yake

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Whisker Pole Installation
by Robert Hall 10 Jul '11

10 Jul '11

Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH.

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Re: M_Boats: Boom vangs long - Beware -long response
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 10 Jul '11

10 Jul '11

Tom, Sometimes people seem to think of 'sail controls' as a hassle or something else to rig or that 'gets in the way'. There is a purpose for all of these sometimes confusing parts of rigging and all are beneficial NOT just for racing. I believe you know all of this but for the others - here we go - Boom Vang is used to : Control the amount of twist in the mainsail (sail shape control). Induce bend in mast (usually lower section) in some type of boat (BTW - a powerful vang will impart bend in a 17 mast) Prevent the boom from skying - lifting uncontrollably downwind. Upwind- Generally- or as a starting point - one should use the vang to adjust twist in the mainsail such that under 'ideal' sailing conditions (flat water moderate breeze) the top batten is in line (parallel to) the boom. This is a starting point for reference. Recommend putting a telltale on EACH batten end of the sail (just below or above the batten pocket) at the trailing edge of the sail. The goal is to adjust Mainsheet tension, Vang tension, and angle of attack (traveler for those folks that use them) to get the lower three telltales flying straight back off the leech of the main and the TOP telltale flying aft 50% and stalled 50% of the time. This will usually give you a good set of feedback as to wether the sail is properly trimmed. (I no longer use telltales at the 'max draft' position -although they may also be of help in getting the main trimmed). Whatever works best. When the boat is starting to be a bit over powered upwind - you may want to ease the vang a bit to 'open' the leech at the top batten and allow more twist in the sail - check after the vang is eased to make sure you can keep the telltales flying as noted above. You should feel the boat exhibit a bit less heeling and consequently more in control. Downwind- Reach- the telltales trim comments from above apply again, usually a bit more Vang tension is required due the mainsheet being less effective at controlling the boom from the tendency to lift when sheeted out. ( on the rare occasion that you are reaching in HEAVY air and the boom starts dragging in the water to the lee - ease the vang or assign someone to 'blow the vang' when the boat is knocked down and the boom is causing you to spin-out - we usually don't see this condition in our stubby little boats - FYI kinda thing. Run- ideal conditions (flat water moderate air) is used to tension leech of sail so that the mainsail will show 'maximum projected area' - fancy term for 'as big as it can appear' boom usually approx. parallel to the horizon. The leech telltales will be stalled and bouncing all over - if they do all happen to flow to leeward side of the main - you are sailing 'by the lee - fast but you will need to be alert for the forthcoming 'unintended jibe' - Vang is usually kept 'on' while on a run and is eased a bit when coming up to a reach. Be sure to keep passengers clear of vang mechanism when jibing - Boom Vangs are not attached to the rail of the boat - it has at that point become a 'preventer' - the use of a preventer may find you at the sailmaker looking to repair your mainsail when the boat jibes and the boom does not - hard on the sail and generally will wreak 'CF'* havoc on the boat when this happens (great for introducing friends to the "Sport") After all this blathering from some guy - we can say - 'too confusing - I don't need one' - truth is you don't - But I do know my mechanically challenged wife's Camry has more controls than my little boat has and she does 'just fine' with a plethora of pedals, stalks, knobs, buttons, slides etc.! The learning and application of sail controls are a PART of what attracts some folk to the sport - others (I have my days) say - 'I just want to float around - no strings for me' . If you want to improve your skills, if you want to have more and better control over the boat, if you want to be better able to sail the boat in adverse or challenging conditions - it is an asset to know what works and makes you a better prepared and safer sailor. If you don't want more 'stuff' on your boat - this here is the USA and you are exercising the most free sport there is - Good on ya. Now who raised their hand about a 'Cunningham'? Barber Haul ?? Majick Twanger? Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing ! GO M-17 # 316 its waaaay too hot to sail so I am wasting my life at the Internet - almost at the end though. * CF - Cowboy Fun????

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Boom vangs
by Tom Jenkins 09 Jul '11

09 Jul '11

I like to keep things as simple as possible, and my boom already sports lots of hardware, but it seems to me that a boom vang might be a useful tool. Does anyone out there use one on a 17, and is it worth the hassle? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla

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Check out Backstay Tensioner Tackle | eBay
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 08 Jul '11

08 Jul '11

_Click here: Backstay Tensioner Tackle for Catalina 22 | eBay_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Backstay-Tensioner-Tackle-Catalina-22-_W0QQc… QhashZitem4cf8617a8dQQitemZ330584652429QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGea r) Tom or others - I use the same set-up as shown here on my 17 connected to a wire rope dead ended at the starboard chainplate up thru a Harken wire block at the lower end of backstay (no turnbuckle - don't need it) and attached to the tensioner terminating at the port chainplate. Works well - I am changing it out to 6:1 cascaded as I sometimes use one leg and one arm to tension as current setup - I am getting old. The boat is not coming apart yet! (compression post is well fit and secure - bow chainplate is secure and checked every time it goes out) Interesting the different approaches to rig tuning - my uppers and lowers are 'quite' tight as noted by some 17 owners - my forestay is capable of more than 14 inches of deflection with the backstay eased ! Imagine a large s-bend in the forestay). The mast stays in column athwartships and is capable of moderate bend +- 7 inches (smooth) when tensioned for and aft. Works for me - I know many 17 sailors carry fairly 'loose' shrouds - that works for them too ! Many ways to skin the cat -(sorry Scobie) Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing GO

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Remote tiller control line M15
by hillking7＠comcast.net 08 Jul '11

08 Jul '11

Doug Kelch-- you have a great idea for tiller control. I have been tying the tiller when I go forward for any reason, which is not working well. You refreshed my thoughts about the same rig that I used years ago on my double ended cat boat. I did the very same thing to maintain control as it was very tender. It was 12' with a sail from a Hobie 16. I want to copy your idea on my 1984 M15. Would you be kind enough to provide a picture of your set up? Thank you. Bruce King, Fair Oaks,CA

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Re: M_Boats: Remote tiller control line M15
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 06 Jul '11

06 Jul '11

Hey Bruce, When are you next planning a sail in the local Sacto area? Send me a pm next time you're thinking about getting out. You should consider coming over to Monterey for Cruiser Challenge in a few weeks. -Neil

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