- montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

M12 Hull Plate
by bill.bowen＠premierhotel.com 27 Oct '20

27 Oct '20

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Re: M_Boats: Motor for M17
by bownez＠juno.com 26 Oct '20

26 Oct '20

Henry, The Yamaha 4hp is a 4 stroke, so, vastly different from your Mariner. My 1976 M17 came off Lake Superior and had a Honda BF100 10hp 4 stroke on her! Talk about overkill. I purchased a new Yamaha 4hp 20" model in 2001. It is a wonderful outboard and fit the M17 perfectly. I did use an motor mount to get the engine completely out of the water while sailing. I imagine that outboard comes up for sale on the used market occasionally. Before the Yamaha I had an older Johnson 6hp 2 stroke, circa 1965 or so. Frustrating little devil. It worked, but had this nasty habit of killing and not restarting at the most inopportune times, like pulling into a crowded marina. The BF100 Honda I used on my M23 for years, still have it and plan on mounting it on a fishing boat I'll be restoring. Mr. Bones Mpls ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_tag… People Are Furious With NBC Over Trump Town Hall http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477db8132477d5049st03vuc1 Dr. Fauci Broaches the Subject on Everyone's Mind http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477dd73bf477d5049st03vuc2 Cops: Girl, 8, Died After Being Forced to Jump on Trampoline http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477e2cdc477d5049st03vuc3

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Re: M_Boats: running lights M15 + Duckworks
by Thomas Howe 26 Oct '20

26 Oct '20

Ordered from DuckWorks. Shipped promptly, and I've already received them. Haven't gotten to the boat yet, but I'm looking forward to the installation, and enjoying some night sailing. Thomas Howe -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 1:56 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: running lights M15 Thomas (and others following along): Navisafe are powered by AAAs. The manufacturer states that "Rechargeable batteries have a lower voltage (1,2 V) than regular ones (1,5 V), and the USCG 2NM approval is only valid with regular batteries." :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 10:38 AM Thomas Howe <Thomas(a)thomashoweonline.com> wrote: > The NaviSafe light look like just the ticket. What powers them? > > > Thomas Howe > M-17 # 666 Osprey II > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:18 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: running lights M15 > > As MikeZ wrote the quick, easy and cheaper way is the Navisafe LEDs. > Bright and USCG Certified. > > Need two things: > > The first is the Dinghy/Skiff kit - > > https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/nav-768.htm > > Mount the transom/vertical bracket on the inside of the transom on the > far starboard side (away from the motor and clear of the tiller) and > use the sticks to get the light up. Set light according to how going: > 125 to stern for sailing, 360 for motoring and anchoring. > > For the bow get the rail mount - > > https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/nav-956.htm > > Mount the bicolor light up front. > > > I used this setup on the Sage 15/SageCat. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 6:40 AM Mike Z <speedernut2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Navisafe > > > > Duckworks > > > > 12 volt systems are pretty heavy for a 750 pound Monty 15. > > > > I have Navisafe lights. Nice compromise for a 15 and about any kind > > of mount you could want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:24 AM, Jim Sadler > > > <jimsadler(a)jascopacific.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > M15 Skippers > > > > > > Any suggestions on running light for M15.. > > > I believe I need red/green , white stern, white mast head ( for > > > running > > under power) > > > Cant decide which is better Individual battery or 12v system fo > > > all the > > lights? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Capt. Jim Sadler > > > SV Pelican M-15 > > > > >

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Re: M_Boats: M12 Hull Plate
by bill.bowen＠premierhotel.com 25 Oct '20

25 Oct '20

Very nice to get your email Jerry. The lines and design of the boat are beyond reproach! I bought the boat with oars, kick-up rudder (sweet little mechanism), one used main sail in good shape and a new mail sail that has never been flown----but no jib. I need to get specs on the jib so I can have one made. The guy I bought if from bought it to use as a rowing dinghy from another guy in Miami is all the history I know. So, I am assuming it came out of the mold in about 1972? Regards, Bill Bowen -----Original Message----- From: "jerry montgomery" <jmbn1(a)outlook.com> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 7:25pm To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M12 Hull Plate Yes, it should be the first. Sailmaker Reggie Armstrong and I won our class in the midwinters in Long Beach, CA with it, fresh out of the mold. I wonder how it got to FL?? if you weren't so far away I would love to see it. Take care of it! jerry ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of Mike Z <speedernut2(a)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 4:14 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M12 Hull Plate Nice find! I admit to being a little bit jealous. I will let someone more knowledgeable weigh in on your question. Monty15Mike On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:54 PM bill.bowen--- via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Because I was struck with the lines of the boat when driving by, I bought > an M12 out of guy's front yard in North Florida about four years ago. I > have sailed it a few time and it is a delight. Because I owned a Hunter 41 > Deck Salon which I sold recently, I had little time for the M12. It is > stored at my farm in South Georgia. While starting to clean her up (waxing > hull, freshen teak, etc.) I noticed on the brass hull plate the following: > > > > "Montgomery Marine" in faded letters > > > > "Type" in faded letters followed by a hammer stamped "12" > > > > "No." in faded letters followed by a hammer stamped "1" > > > > Does this mean this is Hull Number 1 of the M12's? > > > > Attached is a photo of the hull plate (upside down because the boat is > upside on stands being waxed) and a photo of the boat on my farm pond about > a year after I bought it. > > > > Thanks, Bill Bowen > > > > >

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running lights M15
by Jim Sadler 20 Oct '20

20 Oct '20

M15 Skippers Any suggestions on running light for M15.. I believe I need red/green , white stern, white mast head ( for running under power) Cant decide which is better Individual battery or 12v system fo all the lights? Thanks Capt. Jim Sadler SV Pelican M-15

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 212, Issue 7
by Andrei Caldararu 19 Oct '20

19 Oct '20

Continuing my earlier email about finding the right motor for my M17. Does anyone have any experience with the Tohatsu 3.5HP 4 cycle engine? Is it powerful enough? Is its powerhead too big to tilt up completely on a fixed motor mount? (I did manage to do a complete refurbishing of my old Evinrude 4hp which came with the boat, and it is now running well. So I am not in a hurry to change; but this Tohatsu engine has caught my eye as a good choice.) Thanks, Andrei.

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 212, Issue 6
by Jon Barber 16 Oct '20

16 Oct '20

A nice example of an electric aux at Benecia. This Nimble 24 has 12 AMG batteries that run an electric motor. It has a regen feature as well. Not a great performer under sail but you can always bump the throttle for a little boost. The owner says the control system was developed for the moon rover. All in all a nice boat. I leave him in the dust, tho under sail. Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44 On Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 11:00 AM < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop) > (casioqv(a)usermail.com) > 2. Re: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop) > (Keith R. Martin) > 3. Re: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop) > (John Schinnerer) > 4. M17 motor mount (Jon Barber) > 5. Re: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop) > (Alex Conley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:01:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: casioqv(a)usermail.com > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda > 2/2.3 prop) > Message-ID: > <1288052005.76353782.1602784915158.JavaMail.zimbra(a)usermail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Dave, > > I met a guy with a Newport 30 that he had converted to a fairly expensive > electric drive system, and he claimed it did work for him for long cruises > in the SF Bay area... he used a regen feature to charge the battery off the > propeller while sailing. I don't think I would want something that slows > the boat down like that, but he claimed that he would always end the day > with a full battery on a multi-day cruise, and would never plug it in to > recharge at the dock. > > Compared to the Salish Sea, I think the Bay Area is quite different > because you can reliably count on strong afternoon winds virtually > everyday, so at worst you are motoring in the mornings and sailing in the > evenings. > > Sincerely, > Tyler > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: "john" <john(a)eco-living.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:40:56 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 > prop) > > IMO electric remains usable for entry and exit of harbor. Even with > smaller batteries with greater storage capacity (maybe one day having > enough capacity for a day of motoring - full day of no wind is common on > the Salish Sea, in addition to the current against you half the time +) the > issue for a cruiser remains recharge - unless you stop at a marina that has > 120v and you stay long enough to fully charge you are stuck. Solar on a > 15' and 17' boat will be limited by deck space so full recharge is counted > in days. > > More ocean crossing sailors are converting to solar when their inboard > diesel dies. These folks don't like to motor. These electric ocean > crossers have solar but have simple low power draw electric systems as they > cant run a generator/motor for four hours a day. So they use the electric > motor getting out of harbor and have the crossing to recharge - multiple > days or weeks of time. > > There are also a small number of day sailors that convert to solar - but > they don't cruise, just go out of harbor, sail, come back in. There are a > few high-end 20-30' daysailors (that big and they call them daysailors!) > that are being manufactured with electric. I also believe that ComPac has > made a couple of custom order sub-20' electric onboard catboats. > > I sold some Sage 17s with Torqeedos - in all cases boat was for daysailing > and on a lake. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:30 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > The specs for that trolling motor say minimum draw 9 amps, max draw 20 > > amps. > > > > So with your little 11 amp-hour battery, you'll get maybe an hour at > > minimum draw, and half an hour or less at max draw. > > Some basic electrical math: > > > > 11 AH divided by 9 A = 1.2 H. > > > > Please don't head out on a 5 hour tour (or even a "3 hour tour" :-) > > without other means to get back if the wind dies...at medium draw (15A) > > you'll get about 40 minutes of runtime at best. > > > > You can get a 50AH or 60AH or more lithium battery, and it will be much > > lighter than same capacity lead-acid, but it will also lighten your > > wallet by a whole lot more. > > > > cheers, > > John > > > > On 10/15/20 9:09 AM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > > I've been playing with using a 12V trolling motor on my M15 along with > a > > cheap "Golf Cart Voltage Converter" to use a 48v electric bike battery > pack > > with the trolling motor. It seems to work very well so far, but doesn't > > have quite the thrust of a gas outboard... good enough for exiting the > > marina, but not for motoring into a chop. The weight and runtime is > > comparable to a Torqueedo but at a tiny fraction of the cost. I've never > > ran it empty, but I suspect I can motor for 5-6 hours on the battery at > > about 3 knots. > > > > > > Here's what I have: > > > -DPLANET 30A 360W 12v Golf Cart 48V 36V to 12V Converter ($35 on > Amazon) > > > -Watersnake T24 ASP Saltwater trolling motor - designed for Kayaks > ($150 > > on Amazon) > > > -2017 Rad City Battery Pack 48V, 11.6 Ah (557 Wh) (from my eBike, but > > $399 new) > > > > > > Total weight of this setup is 14.1 lbs with 7.4lbs for the battery, and > > 6.7lbs for the motor (converter is small and negligible). This is > > comparable to the lightest gas outboard I think has ever been sold- the > > 1.5hp Cruise'N'Carry at 12lbs. I used to have a Cruise'N'Carry, and found > > it to be cheaply made and extremely loud, so not really viable. > > > > > > A big 24v 80lb thrust trolling motor would probably push the M15 at > near > > hull speed and into a chop, but would be much much heavier than a > > comparable gas outboard, and requires dual large heavy batteries. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Tyler > > > '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rimantas Aukstuolis" <raukstuolis1(a)gmail.com> > > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:18:41 AM > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop > > > > > > What about those electric trolling motors? Hard to figure out > > > thrust/power/torque comparisons. What little I know, comparing them to > > > expensive Torquedo is that they use bulky 12 volt batteries vs lithium. > > Any > > > thoughts? > > > Rimas Aukstuolis > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 11:03:32 -0700 > From: "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda > 2/2.3 prop) > Message-ID: > < > CAOQkDsyNt6X-nn8L2wZiEtyTJW4sP3FqYrsDw8NVzugSt9tpQg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > There are certainly electric/battery driven options for certain types of > sailing with a M17/M15/Sage boats, particularly for day sailing on lakes > etc. > That said if you have a significant span of water to be traversed that is > shared with larger craft (cargo & ferries etc..) one can get into really > dicey situations if the wind dies... > On one crossing of the Strait of Georgia this summer, I had that very > circumstance, 7 NM out in the Strait heading for the gulf islands, the wind > died to virtually nothing, and I had another 14 NM to go all the while > dodging cargo vessels and ferries.. I can't imagine doing that without a > gas powered engine.... > > Keith > > *Keith R. Martin* > > *Vancouver/Burnaby B.C.* > > *Serenity M17, #353* > *http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105 > <http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105>* > > > On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 at 10:41, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > IMO electric remains usable for entry and exit of harbor. Even with > > smaller batteries with greater storage capacity (maybe one day having > > enough capacity for a day of motoring - full day of no wind is common on > > the Salish Sea, in addition to the current against you half the time +) > the > > issue for a cruiser remains recharge - unless you stop at a marina that > has > > 120v and you stay long enough to fully charge you are stuck. Solar on a > > 15' and 17' boat will be limited by deck space so full recharge is > counted > > in days. > > > > More ocean crossing sailors are converting to solar when their inboard > > diesel dies. These folks don't like to motor. These electric ocean > > crossers have solar but have simple low power draw electric systems as > they > > cant run a generator/motor for four hours a day. So they use the electric > > motor getting out of harbor and have the crossing to recharge - multiple > > days or weeks of time. > > > > There are also a small number of day sailors that convert to solar - but > > they don't cruise, just go out of harbor, sail, come back in. There are > a > > few high-end 20-30' daysailors (that big and they call them daysailors!) > > that are being manufactured with electric. I also believe that ComPac > has > > made a couple of custom order sub-20' electric onboard catboats. > > > > I sold some Sage 17s with Torqeedos - in all cases boat was for > daysailing > > and on a lake. > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M6'8" #650 > > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:30 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > > > The specs for that trolling motor say minimum draw 9 amps, max draw 20 > > > amps. > > > > > > So with your little 11 amp-hour battery, you'll get maybe an hour at > > > minimum draw, and half an hour or less at max draw. > > > Some basic electrical math: > > > > > > 11 AH divided by 9 A = 1.2 H. > > > > > > Please don't head out on a 5 hour tour (or even a "3 hour tour" :-) > > > without other means to get back if the wind dies...at medium draw (15A) > > > you'll get about 40 minutes of runtime at best. > > > > > > You can get a 50AH or 60AH or more lithium battery, and it will be much > > > lighter than same capacity lead-acid, but it will also lighten your > > > wallet by a whole lot more. > > > > > > cheers, > > > John > > > > > > On 10/15/20 9:09 AM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > > > I've been playing with using a 12V trolling motor on my M15 along > with > > a > > > cheap "Golf Cart Voltage Converter" to use a 48v electric bike battery > > pack > > > with the trolling motor. It seems to work very well so far, but doesn't > > > have quite the thrust of a gas outboard... good enough for exiting the > > > marina, but not for motoring into a chop. The weight and runtime is > > > comparable to a Torqueedo but at a tiny fraction of the cost. I've > never > > > ran it empty, but I suspect I can motor for 5-6 hours on the battery at > > > about 3 knots. > > > > > > > > Here's what I have: > > > > -DPLANET 30A 360W 12v Golf Cart 48V 36V to 12V Converter ($35 on > > Amazon) > > > > -Watersnake T24 ASP Saltwater trolling motor - designed for Kayaks > > ($150 > > > on Amazon) > > > > -2017 Rad City Battery Pack 48V, 11.6 Ah (557 Wh) (from my eBike, but > > > $399 new) > > > > > > > > Total weight of this setup is 14.1 lbs with 7.4lbs for the battery, > and > > > 6.7lbs for the motor (converter is small and negligible). This is > > > comparable to the lightest gas outboard I think has ever been sold- the > > > 1.5hp Cruise'N'Carry at 12lbs. I used to have a Cruise'N'Carry, and > found > > > it to be cheaply made and extremely loud, so not really viable. > > > > > > > > A big 24v 80lb thrust trolling motor would probably push the M15 at > > near > > > hull speed and into a chop, but would be much much heavier than a > > > comparable gas outboard, and requires dual large heavy batteries. > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Tyler > > > > '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Rimantas Aukstuolis" <raukstuolis1(a)gmail.com> > > > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:18:41 AM > > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop > > > > > > > > What about those electric trolling motors? Hard to figure out > > > > thrust/power/torque comparisons. What little I know, comparing them > to > > > > expensive Torquedo is that they use bulky 12 volt batteries vs > lithium. > > > Any > > > > thoughts? > > > > Rimas Aukstuolis > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 12:27:31 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda > 2/2.3 prop) > Message-ID: <3e32bbdc-f402-c90e-e75a-df81367da72b(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Ah, missed the battery voltage, thought it was 12v. > Do it all in watts then... > > 48v x 11AH = 528WH > > Say moderate speed draws 12A, then 12A x 12.6V = 144W > > 528WH/144W = ~3.6H, at 12A draw, as you say. > > There is also some loss of efficiency in all battery powered systems, > typically at least 10% and usually more like 20%, so take 20% off the > theoretical math to get a safer real world estimate. > > Part of the efficiency loss with battery storage is in the recharging, > which isn't an issue in this situation, so 10% loss might be realistic > here. > > Not bad then for what you put into it! > > cheers, > John > > > > On 10/15/20 10:38 AM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > The motor draws 9-20 amps only max startup (stall/0 knots) at 12v on the > low and high speeds respectively. This 11 aH battery is a powerful 48v > battery for electric bicycles, so you have to multiply the amperage by 4x > to compare with a 12v lead acid. The stepdown converter gives 1/4 the > voltage and 4x the aH as output. > > > > I estimate on high speed once cruising it draws about 13amps at 12v, so > that would be approx (11.6*4)/13=3.57 hours of runtime. Let's say it draws > only 6 amps at cruise on low speed, that would be approx (11.6*4)/6=7.73 > hours of runtime. > > > > Indeed, I did motor with it on low speed for over an hour, and the > battery was still reading 100% on the built in meter it has (which only > reads in 20% intervals), so it was definitely over 80% at the end. > > > > Sincerely, > > Tyler > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:29:42 AM > > Subject: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 > prop) > > > > The specs for that trolling motor say minimum draw 9 amps, max draw 20 > amps. > > > > So with your little 11 amp-hour battery, you'll get maybe an hour at > > minimum draw, and half an hour or less at max draw. > > Some basic electrical math: > > > > 11 AH divided by 9 A = 1.2 H. > > > > Please don't head out on a 5 hour tour (or even a "3 hour tour" :-) > > without other means to get back if the wind dies...at medium draw (15A) > > you'll get about 40 minutes of runtime at best. > > > > You can get a 50AH or 60AH or more lithium battery, and it will be much > > lighter than same capacity lead-acid, but it will also lighten your > > wallet by a whole lot more. > > > > cheers, > > John > > > > On 10/15/20 9:09 AM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > >> I've been playing with using a 12V trolling motor on my M15 along with > a cheap "Golf Cart Voltage Converter" to use a 48v electric bike battery > pack with the trolling motor. It seems to work very well so far, but > doesn't have quite the thrust of a gas outboard... good enough for exiting > the marina, but not for motoring into a chop. The weight and runtime is > comparable to a Torqueedo but at a tiny fraction of the cost. I've never > ran it empty, but I suspect I can motor for 5-6 hours on the battery at > about 3 knots. > >> > >> Here's what I have: > >> -DPLANET 30A 360W 12v Golf Cart 48V 36V to 12V Converter ($35 on Amazon) > >> -Watersnake T24 ASP Saltwater trolling motor - designed for Kayaks > ($150 on Amazon) > >> -2017 Rad City Battery Pack 48V, 11.6 Ah (557 Wh) (from my eBike, but > $399 new) > >> > >> Total weight of this setup is 14.1 lbs with 7.4lbs for the battery, and > 6.7lbs for the motor (converter is small and negligible). This is > comparable to the lightest gas outboard I think has ever been sold- the > 1.5hp Cruise'N'Carry at 12lbs. I used to have a Cruise'N'Carry, and found > it to be cheaply made and extremely loud, so not really viable. > >> > >> A big 24v 80lb thrust trolling motor would probably push the M15 at > near hull speed and into a chop, but would be much much heavier than a > comparable gas outboard, and requires dual large heavy batteries. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> Tyler > >> '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rimantas Aukstuolis" <raukstuolis1(a)gmail.com> > >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:18:41 AM > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop > >> > >> What about those electric trolling motors? Hard to figure out > >> thrust/power/torque comparisons. What little I know, comparing them to > >> expensive Torquedo is that they use bulky 12 volt batteries vs lithium. > Any > >> thoughts? > >> Rimas Aukstuolis > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:14 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks for the caution re overpropping. I guess the real solution > would be > >>> to change the gear ratio to turn a larger prop slower at a given > throttle > >>> setting. Then you could use more of the engines range and gain both > torque > >>> at higher speeds and a slower low speed- both on my wishlist. But not > a mod > >>> I can see making- it?d be a whole new lower end... It seems most of the > >>> little outboards we use on our displacement sailboats are geared to > get a > >>> little inflatable zipping around; have there been attempts to make an > >>> outboard geared for small sailboats, or is it just too niche a market? > I?ll > >>> plan to live with my imperfect 35 yr old motor long enough to > hopefully hit > >>> the point where the range/cost ratio of the electrics makes them a good > >>> replacement.... > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 8:10 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Alex: > >>>> > >>>> Somewhere a few years ago I read about a person changing out the prop > on > >>>> the small Honda - wasn't a Mboat. I can't remember any specifics. > >>>> > >>>> The general consensus was the problem is the motor will likely be > >>>> overstressed under the load - especially a concern with the powerhead > >>> being > >>>> or cooled. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> :: Dave Scobie > >>>> :: M6'8" #650 > >>>> :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > >>>> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > >>>> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 8:03 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Ive also searched for a high thrust prop for my 35 yr old Honda 2 hp > >>> but > >>>>> never seen one. In these days of 3D printers/milling, strong plastics > >>> and > >>>>> computer designs, it would seem there might be an opportunity for > >>> someone > >>>>> to work up some designs that could then be made on order. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:11:23 -0700 > From: Jon Barber <brbrbarber(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: M17 motor mount > Message-ID: > < > CAFwAWQuee-vW4-_VOof5Uo3K2ZpCNj5MtB080x4U-j-T2t32Cg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > As I recall, Gary Oberbeck had made a sweet motor mount from mast section > welded to aluminum plates. All very elegant. I can't send photos, either. > > My 2 hp Honda in the notch is perfect. I wouldn't consider any other setup. > > Jon Barber > Monty17 > Ol'44 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:41:17 -0700 > From: Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> > To: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda > 2/2.3 prop) > Message-ID: > < > CACj3+t+9vzkj-4MYKBYhAwUyn1-ad4_VSiEcOfnfHzhdxf2qvw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Thanks all- love learning from the chat here. My brief experiments with a > 36lb thrust trolling motor (a little bigger thanTyler's 24 lb thrust > Watersnake) on My M15 made me conclude that while it was great for an hour > or two of fishing on a still lake while waiting for the wind, when the wind > came up to even 10 knots, it failed to have the power to maintain decent > way and steerage (in comparison, in its toughest test, my little 2 horse > honda let me tow a stranded ski boat with 5 people in it off a rough lee > shore in a 20-25 knot breeze with only a little whining in the worst of the > waves). A standard trolling motor setup up to the task is a heavy > proposition (though in a boat designed for it, it can be impressive- look > up Thomas Hruby and his St Pierre Dory Daddy's Third) - and part of what I > love about my M15 is how light and responsive she is. Tyler's 48v battery > idea- with multiple batteries and a more powerful trolling motor might > work, but weight and price will climb quickly (see if I can find the time > to and brainspace to calc out what that might look like). The Torquedos and > like are really coming along- I think they'd handle all the boat needs > except for the range limitation, but until the range comes along, the cost > is a barrier. So right now I concur w Dave that the current electrics are > largely limited to protected daysailing and not a good match for Keith's > gulf island crossing and most other open water work- however, I suspect > ultimately we'll see the cost of a Torquedo style motor drop a bit and come > with an option for portable generator/fuel cell to act as a range extender > for times when range is essential (as so many daysail most of the time, and > have only a few extended outings in a year). So for now I'll keep that 1985 > 2 horse going, and see what's on the market in a few years... > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 12:28 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > Ah, missed the battery voltage, thought it was 12v. > > Do it all in watts then... > > > > 48v x 11AH = 528WH > > > > Say moderate speed draws 12A, then 12A x 12.6V = 144W > > > > 528WH/144W = ~3.6H, at 12A draw, as you say. > > > > There is also some loss of efficiency in all battery powered systems, > > typically at least 10% and usually more like 20%, so take 20% off the > > theoretical math to get a safer real world estimate. > > > > Part of the efficiency loss with battery storage is in the recharging, > > which isn't an issue in this situation, so 10% loss might be realistic > > here. > > > > Not bad then for what you put into it! > > > > cheers, > > John > > > > > > > > On 10/15/20 10:38 AM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > > Hi John, > > > > > > The motor draws 9-20 amps only max startup (stall/0 knots) at 12v on > the > > low and high speeds respectively. This 11 aH battery is a powerful 48v > > battery for electric bicycles, so you have to multiply the amperage by 4x > > to compare with a 12v lead acid. The stepdown converter gives 1/4 the > > voltage and 4x the aH as output. > > > > > > I estimate on high speed once cruising it draws about 13amps at 12v, so > > that would be approx (11.6*4)/13=3.57 hours of runtime. Let's say it > draws > > only 6 amps at cruise on low speed, that would be approx (11.6*4)/6=7.73 > > hours of runtime. > > > > > > Indeed, I did motor with it on low speed for over an hour, and the > > battery was still reading 100% on the built in meter it has (which only > > reads in 20% intervals), so it was definitely over 80% at the end. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Tyler > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:29:42 AM > > > Subject: M_Boats: Electric motor range (was Re: changing Honda 2/2.3 > > prop) > > > > > > The specs for that trolling motor say minimum draw 9 amps, max draw 20 > > amps. > > > > > > So with your little 11 amp-hour battery, you'll get maybe an hour at > > > minimum draw, and half an hour or less at max draw. > > > Some basic electrical math: > > > > > > 11 AH divided by 9 A = 1.2 H. > > > > > > Please don't head out on a 5 hour tour (or even a "3 hour tour" :-) > > > without other means to get back if the wind dies...at medium draw (15A) > > > you'll get about 40 minutes of runtime at best. > > > > > > You can get a 50AH or 60AH or more lithium battery, and it will be much > > > lighter than same capacity lead-acid, but it will also lighten your > > > wallet by a whole lot more. > > > > > > cheers, > > > John > > > > > > On 10/15/20 9:09 AM, casioqv(a)usermail.com wrote: > > >> I've been playing with using a 12V trolling motor on my M15 along with > > a cheap "Golf Cart Voltage Converter" to use a 48v electric bike battery > > pack with the trolling motor. It seems to work very well so far, but > > doesn't have quite the thrust of a gas outboard... good enough for > exiting > > the marina, but not for motoring into a chop. The weight and runtime is > > comparable to a Torqueedo but at a tiny fraction of the cost. I've never > > ran it empty, but I suspect I can motor for 5-6 hours on the battery at > > about 3 knots. > > >> > > >> Here's what I have: > > >> -DPLANET 30A 360W 12v Golf Cart 48V 36V to 12V Converter ($35 on > Amazon) > > >> -Watersnake T24 ASP Saltwater trolling motor - designed for Kayaks > > ($150 on Amazon) > > >> -2017 Rad City Battery Pack 48V, 11.6 Ah (557 Wh) (from my eBike, but > > $399 new) > > >> > > >> Total weight of this setup is 14.1 lbs with 7.4lbs for the battery, > and > > 6.7lbs for the motor (converter is small and negligible). This is > > comparable to the lightest gas outboard I think has ever been sold- the > > 1.5hp Cruise'N'Carry at 12lbs. I used to have a Cruise'N'Carry, and found > > it to be cheaply made and extremely loud, so not really viable. > > >> > > >> A big 24v 80lb thrust trolling motor would probably push the M15 at > > near hull speed and into a chop, but would be much much heavier than a > > comparable gas outboard, and requires dual large heavy batteries. > > >> > > >> Sincerely, > > >> Tyler > > >> '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Rimantas Aukstuolis" <raukstuolis1(a)gmail.com> > > >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > >> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:18:41 AM > > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: changing Honda 2/2.3 prop > > >> > > >> What about those electric trolling motors? Hard to figure out > > >> thrust/power/torque comparisons. What little I know, comparing them to > > >> expensive Torquedo is that they use bulky 12 volt batteries vs > lithium. > > Any > > >> thoughts? > > >> Rimas Aukstuolis > > >> > > >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 11:14 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> Thanks for the caution re overpropping. I guess the real solution > > would be > > >>> to change the gear ratio to turn a larger prop slower at a given > > throttle > > >>> setting. Then you could use more of the engines range and gain both > > torque > > >>> at higher speeds and a slower low speed- both on my wishlist. But not > > a mod > > >>> I can see making- it?d be a whole new lower end... It seems most of > the > > >>> little outboards we use on our displacement sailboats are geared to > > get a > > >>> little inflatable zipping around; have there been attempts to make an > > >>> outboard geared for small sailboats, or is it just too niche a > market? > > I?ll > > >>> plan to live with my imperfect 35 yr old motor long enough to > > hopefully hit > > >>> the point where the range/cost ratio of the electrics makes them a > good > > >>> replacement.... > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 8:10 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Alex: > > >>>> > > >>>> Somewhere a few years ago I read about a person changing out the > prop > > on > > >>>> the small Honda - wasn't a Mboat. I can't remember any specifics. > > >>>> > > >>>> The general consensus was the problem is the motor will likely be > > >>>> overstressed under the load - especially a concern with the > powerhead > > >>> being > > >>>> or cooled. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> :: Dave Scobie > > >>>> :: M6'8" #650 > > >>>> :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > >>>> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > >>>> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 8:03 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Ive also searched for a high thrust prop for my 35 yr old Honda 2 > hp > > >>> but > > >>>>> never seen one. In these days of 3D printers/milling, strong > plastics > > >>> and > > >>>>> computer designs, it would seem there might be an opportunity for > > >>> someone > > >>>>> to work up some designs that could then be made on order. > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > > http://eco-living.net > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 212, Issue 6 > ************************************************ >

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Motor for M17
by Andrei Caldararu 15 Oct '20

15 Oct '20

Hello fellow Monty owners, my 1982 M17 came with a trusty old Evinrude 4hp, 2 cylinder version (see attached, old picture). Advantage -- lightweight (35lbs). Disadvantages -- works only sometimes, and has left me stranded a number of times in no-wind conditions; very noisy; uses smelly gasoline -- my wife complains about this a lot; no reverse; no alternator. Recently it has caused me enough troubles that I decided to try looking for another motor. One model that I was looking at was the Tohatsu Propane 5hp which seemed to do everything right. Until I looked at the weight -- well over 65 lbs! As currently set up, my boat has the original fixed motor mount, and I leave the Evinrude there all the time, including when trailering long distances. Never had a problem. After seeing the weight of the Tohatsu, I started having doubts that it would be a good idea to get it. I fear that keeping it on the mount all the time will damage my transom or my mount during trailering. Three questions: a) Does anyone have experience with keeping a heavy motor on the mount all the time?b) If the Tohatsu is not the right one, are there recommendations for a lightweight, reliable, motor for the M17 that is quiet and has reverse? I don't think the Honda 2hp is powerful enough for the M17. c) Alternatively, do people feel that I may simply be better off doing a complete refurbishing of my Evinrude? I could get it in tip top shape for about $150, I guess. I am handy with mechanicals, and I have in the past replaced points, condensers, etc. Thanks for all your comments!Andrei.

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M17 motor mount
by Jon Barber 15 Oct '20

15 Oct '20

As I recall, Gary Oberbeck had made a sweet motor mount from mast section welded to aluminum plates. All very elegant. I can't send photos, either. My 2 hp Honda in the notch is perfect. I wouldn't consider any other setup. Jon Barber Monty17 Ol'44

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Motor Mount
by Henry Rodriguez 14 Oct '20

14 Oct '20

I want to move my 5hp long shaft Mariner out of the transom notch and onto a separate bracket to get it lower. It cavitates when I step out of the cockpit. The motor head sticking into the cockpit also blocks the tiller from its full swing. What bracket or mount do you recommend? The Garhauer does not seem to be available any more. Henry Monita

3 3