February 2008 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: 1971 Flicka 20' Benford, ferro cement hull Sailboat with H.D. trailer
by bownez＠juno.com 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

Now there's a project! That would rank right up there with the water soaked NS27 on E-Bay. Although I do enjoy working on and making improvements to my boats, the bottom line is, I'd rather be sailing them. I'm at that stage of life where I would like things "turnkey" condition! Later, Bones _____________________________________________________________ Click for a credit repair consultation, raise your FICO score. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m2LaNa42xVwXSAjOdavxR6yW…

8 12

RE: M_Boats: Porta-Potta measurements on M-15
by Moti Krauthamer 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

I have hull number #254. I'll try to get to my boat to check the measurements but from memory they seem correct. I too am looking to get the "135". I read in past posts that it will be slightly larger then the hole. But I hear that if you put very hot water in the holding tank and then push it down (or sit on top of it) it will form fit to the hole. Anyone else ever have luck with this? Please note this is only an issue with the older M15s. Moti The "Wake" #254 >Kendall Docter from Bossier City, LA. > >#164 measurements for the Porta-Potti hole are as follows. > >15-5/8" Front to back. > >The hole is not rectangular. Towards the stern,it is 11 -5/8" > >Closer to the bow it is 12 5/8" > >Does anyone have a serial number close to #164 they could measure? I have >found several "135 " models on eBay but dimensionally some of them look >different and I'm hesitant to purchase something that won't fit. > >(Thanks EinkaufR43(a)aol.com M-15 #249 for your previous response) > >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

3 3

Porta-Potta measurements on M-15
by kdocter＠bellsouth.net 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Kendall Docter from Bossier City, LA. #164 measurements for the Porta-Potti hole are as follows. 15-5/8" Front to back. The hole is not rectangular. Towards the stern,it is 11 -5/8" Closer to the bow it is 12 5/8" Does anyone have a serial number close to #164 they could measure? I have found several "135 " models on eBay but dimensionally some of them look different and I'm hesitant to purchase something that won't fit. (Thanks EinkaufR43(a)aol.com M-15 #249 for your previous response)

1 0

Re: turned 35 / turned 36
by John R. Butler 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

One of my good sailing buddies sent me a beautiful birthday card and congratulated me for turning 16. He sez 7 plus 9 equals 16. And sailors never lie. Now I am trying very hard to be strong. Only got out sailing once in January, and only once in February, but more days coming. And Rejoyce! waits very patiently. "Over the Hill" and "out of warranty" at 70? Check Psalms 90.10, be strong and make it to 80! John R. Butler theoldcat(a)cox.net

1 0

RE: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 11
by Ben Smith 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Thanks for answering my question. And thanks for the lead on used Montgomeries. I am one of those people who has become somewhat desperate to find a "desirable, well made pocket cruiser" particularly one that I don't have to drive to Timbuktu for. Do you know if there are any places on the East Coast like Hooper's that have seen a high concentration of Montys and might have a lead for me?. Hoping to soon become bonified, Ben > > Hello Ben, > > Hooper's is a sailboat dealer/brokerage/repair yard in Afton, Minnesota. I have been doing business with them for over ten years. My contact there is Brian Jepsen, the owner is Bill Hooper. They know the Montgomery line of boats well, and they employ David, a Kiwi, one of the most talented fiberglass/gelcoat masters I have ever met. He has worked on my M17 and my M23. They have a great website. > In the past, Hooper's has normally had an M15 or an M17 on their lot for sale. I was talking with Brian at the Mpls boat show, and he says all the desirable, well made pocket cruisers are getting harder to find. He has seen buyers from out of state buy boats from him sight unseen, drive up, and away they go. I stopped by last spring and walked their yard, there were 3 M17's on site, none for sale, all awaiting service. > Sailboats Inc, based in Minnesota years ago, was a dealer of the Montgomery boat line. According to Jack Calley Sr.,they sold plenty of them. His son now manages Barker's Island marina in Superior, WI. l near you. Click for more info. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3oFGmg5XJOafc5FHWEWWbYb52… > > _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/

1 0

Re: M_Boats: wire rope for rigging
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

In a message dated 2/15/08 12:55:56 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:37:13 -0800 > From: "Chris and Jeff Packer" <cjpacker(a)theofficenet.com> > Subject: M_Boats: wire rope for rigging > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <000c01c86ff9$696dc300$6c07d5d1@jeffandchris> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Any thoughts about the quality of US manufactured SS 1x19 wire rope vs > Korean manufactured wire rope. All I know is that there is a big difference in > price. I can buy 3/16" SS 304 1x19 Loos wire rope from West Marine for about > $2.00 per foot, or the same wire rope manufactured in Korea at Fisheries > Supply in Seattle for about $.70 per foot. Big difference in price! Looking to > buy for new standing rigging for my M-23. > > Any riggers out there with experience and recommendations? > > Jeff > Jeff, The message below is a post I sent to the Flicka list regarding a similar query. I think you will be surprised to learn that the Korean wire is generally thought to be superior. I thought I would include the entire post as there is also the consideration of type 316 vs. 304. As far as I know, the information herein is still correct. Scott G. 1991 M15 'bebe' 1990 Pacific Seacraft Flicka Jamie, Your assertion that 316 wire is a little weaker than 304 is perhaps only partially correct. While the general trend is certainly true between 316 and 304 materials of similar quality, there are some pronounced variances between manufacturers that complicate this. West Marine, in their 2006 catalog publishes breaking strength values for the Loos brand (domestic) wire they sell as follows: 3/16" type 302/304: 4700 lb. 3/16" type 316: 4000 lb. >From this, you would assume a general strength penalty of something like 15%. If you look at the wire that Rigging Only (www.riggingonly.com) sells, the plot thickens. They sell a 3/16" type 316 wire with a "lowest published breaking strength" of 4316 lb. I called Rigging Only for further explanation, and was told that each spool of their wire comes with full testing results and Mil. Spec. data for that specific spool. Indeed, most spools come in substantially higher than the 4316 lb. number. In the same' boat' as you, I am trying to ascertain whether to go up to 7/32" wire for some or all of my new standing rigging if I use type 316. It would help to know that specification of the original wire, but that does not seem readily available. To this end, I also queried several other prominent rigging lofts about their wire, and whether I needed to go with a size up. I learned a couple of interesting things: 1) All of the lofts I spoke with (you would likely know some of the names) were buying the same kind of wire, and it was *not* from the good old US of A. Indeed, every single loft said the same thing--that the best wire was coming out of Korea. All said that the quality of this wire was amazing--the polish, lack of flaws, and the individual testing of each spool put domestic wire to shame. Most of these riggers complained of the truly abysmal quality of the domestic wire in recent years, and have stopped selling it completely. I can neither corroborate or deny their claims, but I fully intend to use the Korean wire when I re-rig this year. 2) Several of the riggers suggested that blanket statements as to strength requirements are generally bogus, and that each rig (boat type/layout) should be evaluated on a case- by-case basis (including intended use and cruising area). One prominent rigger suggested that some stays could be smaller than others if I really wanted to save weight aloft. At present, I am considering either all Korean 3/16" type 316 of high strength rating, or possibly 7/32" in some or all locations. The argument for having all of the same size is that I would like to carry extra wire and mechanical fittings while cruising, and it would be nice to limit the sizes needed to one. Bert Felton recently did his entire Flicka rig with the high quality 3/16" type 316 Korean wire, and the quality is outstanding. He used the Hayn Hi-Mod fittings, and I intend to do the same, as I have had quite enough of swaged fittings. Norseman and Sta-Lok fittings are great too, but once I did a Hi-Mod fitting, I was a full convert. Anyway, check out the various numbers and see what your rigger thinks. I would frankly trust a real good rigger more than the boat manufacturer anyway. I don't think Bruce Bingham is readily available for questions, and I suspect he would refer you to a rigger anyway. Best, Scott ************** The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

2 1

Need help with a porta-potti
by kdocter＠bellsouth.net 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Kendall Docter M-15 #164 I'm looking for a used Porta-Potti for the M-15. I remember reading somewhere that Jerry was surprised when Porta-Potti changed the dimensions. He suggested that guy put really hot water in the Potty and force-mold it into the hole, which apparently worked. The dimensions I was given don't come that close to me seeing that trick work. There is a used one on Bay and I'd like to bid on it, but the measurements are too big, and it is the right model number. Maybe the woman didn't measure correctly. Any suggestions?

1 0

Re: M_Boats: RE: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 9
by bownez＠juno.com 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Hello Ben, Hooper's is a sailboat dealer/brokerage/repair yard in Afton, Minnesota. I have been doing business with them for over ten years. My contact there is Brian Jepsen, the owner is Bill Hooper. They know the Montgomery line of boats well, and they employ David, a Kiwi, one of the most talented fiberglass/gelcoat masters I have ever met. He has worked on my M17 and my M23. They have a great website. In the past, Hooper's has normally had an M15 or an M17 on their lot for sale. I was talking with Brian at the Mpls boat show, and he says all the desirable, well made pocket cruisers are getting harder to find. He has seen buyers from out of state buy boats from him sight unseen, drive up, and away they go. I stopped by last spring and walked their yard, there were 3 M17's on site, none for sale, all awaiting service. Sailboats Inc, based in Minnesota years ago, was a dealer of the Montgomery boat line. According to Jack Calley Sr.,they sold plenty of them. His son now manages Barker's Island marina in Superior, WI. Think spring, Bones _____________________________________________________________ Study law at a school near you. Click for more info. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3oFGmg5XJOafc5FHWEWWbYb52…

1 0

RE: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 9
by Ben Smith 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

What is the significants of Hooper's boatyard with Montgomery yachts? The name keeps coming up when I do google searches for Montys? Are they a distributor? Thanks, Ben ---------------------------------------- > From: montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 9 > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:55:27 -0700 > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Winter Dreams (Tim Diebert) > 2. Cardinal Sin (Tim Diebert) > 3. Re: Cardinal Sin (Doug Kelch) > 4. Re: Cardinal Sin (W David Scobie) > 5. RE: Cardinal Sin (Tom ) > 6. wire rope for rigging (Chris and Jeff Packer) > 7. Re: wire rope for rigging (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) > 8. Re: 1971 Flicka 20' Benford, ferro cement hull Sailboat with > H.D. trailer (Gary M Hyde) > 9. Re: Cardinal Sin (bownez(a)juno.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:05:02 -0800 > From: "Tim Diebert"> Subject: M_Boats: Winter Dreams > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > After seeing Larry's post on his Dream Boat...it reminded me I had intended > to do some research on another Lyle small boat design. The Falmouth Cutter. > Little sister to the Bristol Channel Cutter and very distant relative of the > 17 and 23 I expect. > I came across this..a 5 hour drive away. In my old home marina. > http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=3028 > > Almost as nice as the new deck M23.. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:19:42 -0800 > From: "Tim Diebert"> Subject: M_Boats: Cardinal Sin > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > May this would be the wrong place to axe this question...... I am sure there > are Mboat owners in the same position....but..... > SWMBO suggested to me that a bit more room inside the boat would be more to > her liking. More than a 17. > > At first thought, a new M23 comes to mind....but I am not quite flush enough > to both purchase the boat....then the vehicle capable of towing it. > > So my question to you is: What choices might there be out there that is > slightly larger than a 17, is fast, seaworthy/ well built, beautiful, > trailerable and brings as much pride of ownership as an M17? > > I have been looking but have not been inspired by anything I would consider > actually buying and giving up our 17 for. > > Cheers, Tim D in Kelowna BC > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:44:47 -0800 (PST) > From: Doug Kelch> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cardinal Sin > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Tim, > > I also think about moving up to a M23 some day but as new it doesn't fit my budget. > > Other choices might be: > Nimble 20 - doesn't sail as well as Montgomery but not much does > Rob Roy 23 - I am partial to traditional looking canoe yawls > Etap 21 - modern, fast, room and not many used ones around. > > Then there are the new wood/epoxy boats that show up ocassionaly. > There was a Bolger Blueberry - 20 ft, Gaff Cutter - that went for a mere $6000 - a very pretty boat and fine cruiser > > Enjoy the search. > > Doug Kelch > > > > Tim Diebert wrote: May this would be the wrong place to axe this question...... I am sure there > are Mboat owners in the same position....but..... > SWMBO suggested to me that a bit more room inside the boat would be more to > her liking. More than a 17. > > At first thought, a new M23 comes to mind....but I am not quite flush enough > to both purchase the boat....then the vehicle capable of towing it. > > So my question to you is: What choices might there be out there that is > slightly larger than a 17, is fast, seaworthy/ well built, beautiful, > trailerable and brings as much pride of ownership as an M17? > > I have been looking but have not been inspired by anything I would consider > actually buying and giving up our 17 for. > > Cheers, Tim D in Kelowna BC > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:51:59 -0800 (PST) > From: W David Scobie> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cardinal Sin > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > don't know if the www-site is still up-to-date ... M23 'sea cutter' is still listed - > > http://www.sailingtexas.com/smontgomery23a.html > > > dave scobie > M15 #288, not yet named > > Tim Diebert wrote: > May this would be the wrong place to axe this question...... I am sure there > are Mboat owners in the same position....but..... > SWMBO suggested to me that a bit more room inside the boat would be more to > her liking. More than a 17. > > At first thought, a new M23 comes to mind....but I am not quite flush enough > to both purchase the boat....then the vehicle capable of towing it. > > So my question to you is: What choices might there be out there that is > slightly larger than a 17, is fast, seaworthy/ well built, beautiful, > trailerable and brings as much pride of ownership as an M17? > > I have been looking but have not been inspired by anything I would consider > actually buying and giving up our 17 for. > > Cheers, Tim D in Kelowna BC > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:10:27 -0800 > From: "Tom "> Subject: RE: M_Boats: Cardinal Sin > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Lots of good boats out there, I think. If I was going to bump up a couple > more feet, didn't want to spend a fortune, but wanted something fast, I'd > look for a Cal 20. t > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Diebert > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:20 AM > To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > Subject: M_Boats: Cardinal Sin > > May this would be the wrong place to axe this question...... I am sure there > are Mboat owners in the same position....but..... > SWMBO suggested to me that a bit more room inside the boat would be more to > her liking. More than a 17. > > At first thought, a new M23 comes to mind....but I am not quite flush enough > to both purchase the boat....then the vehicle capable of towing it. > > So my question to you is: What choices might there be out there that is > slightly larger than a 17, is fast, seaworthy/ well built, beautiful, > trailerable and brings as much pride of ownership as an M17? > > I have been looking but have not been inspired by anything I would consider > actually buying and giving up our 17 for. > > Cheers, Tim D in Kelowna BC > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:37:13 -0800 > From: "Chris and Jeff Packer"> Subject: M_Boats: wire rope for rigging > To:> Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Any thoughts about the quality of US manufactured SS 1x19 wire rope vs Korean manufactured wire rope. All I know is that there is a big difference in price. I can buy 3/16" SS 304 1x19 Loos wire rope from West Marine for about $2.00 per foot, or the same wire rope manufactured in Korea at Fisheries Supply in Seattle for about $.70 per foot. Big difference in price! Looking to buy for new standing rigging for my M-23. > > Any riggers out there with experience and recommendations? > > Jeff > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:40:36 EST > From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: wire rope for rigging > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID:> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Contact Jerry Montgomery at _jerrynospam(a)jerrymontgomery.org_ > (mailto:jerrynospam@jerrymontgomery.org) > > he can set you on the right direction. > > Gary O > M-17 #316a > > > > **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy > Awards. Go to AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:19:46 -0800 > From: Gary M Hyde> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 1971 Flicka 20' Benford, ferro cement hull > Sailboat with H.D. trailer > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Larry! You need a project like that! > --Gary > On Feb 14, 2008, at 8:44 PM, Larry E Yake wrote: > >> http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/570016807.html >> >> Anybody interested in a cheap Flicka? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:54:36 GMT > From: "bownez(a)juno.com"> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cardinal Sin > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Tim and Listers, > > Here is how this "more room" scenario played out for me. > Being very happy with my M17 in around 1999, I learned from this list a local sailor, Theo Petron, had purchased an M23 in San Diego and was having it shipped to Minnesota. I had seen an M23 before in Hooper's boatyard years ago, on a trailer, and was shocked about how much larger it seemed than an M17. One of the yardmen commented that "the owner has had this boat all over, he trailers it all around the midwest and also sails Superior". Wow. > I asked Theo on line if I could come up to White Bear Lake and check out his new purchase. Being a warm hearted fellow Monty sailor (Theo had owned an M17), he quickly agreed and invited me up. My wife Nancy and I boarded, Theo handed us a cold beer, and started showing us around. He was busy cleaning, re-arranging, stowing, etc on his new vessel. > Nancy and I moved below, she was able to stand easily, parked herself on the settee, looked around, and said "Oh Bones, we NEED one of these"! > Well, not wanting to disappoint, I began searching. I actually found 2 in WI. Randy Palmer's sold before I got to view her, and Bill Wier's was out of my budget. > But, in 2001 I did strike a deal with Larry Barkoff to become the next owner of Dick Lane's wonderful "Sadhana". I think it took me less than 30 seconds to decide after stepping aboard that it was sold. > Two months later I rented a truck and hauled her from Lake Mead, NV to Mpls, Mn. Took 3 days. > This will be my 7th season with an M23. > I certainly wish Jerry would have made more of them. It seems alot of M17 sailors would like to take the step to her big sister. > Theo and I have become best of friends, and he still proudly sails his M23. > We recently discovered another one in Minnesota, I have not seen her yet but hope to track the owner down this summer. Reportedly she has a blue hull, and I thought mine was the only one! > Anyway, I hope all the Monty diehards out there that dream of finding an M23, persist, search, wheel and deal until one becomes theirs. > > Later, > > Bones > M23 #75 > M17 #92 > _____________________________________________________________ > Discount Online Trading - Click Now! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mJ8YT7ASWAVDigdDhCSMpiS9… > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 9 > *********************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

1 0

For your winter time pleasure...
by Bill Lamica 15 Feb '08

15 Feb '08

Hi All, The following is over a year old. I saved it so I could one day put it on the site. Robbin Rodderig provided excellent info and pics of his blister/gelcoat repair. Brian Gilbert sent photos of his self made battery box install - good idea! Note to Brian & Robbin... Better late than never. These finally got on the site! See What's New for the links... Bill http://www.msogphotosite.com/WhasNew.html I'm taking a few days off! More great information coming next week to the Photo Site!

2 1