July 2004 - zorn-list - mailman.xmission.com

Re: thoughts on the Film......zorn in japan
by IOUaLive1＠aol.com 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Well, I just re-watched the portion of the DVD where he talks about this. I cant clearly see what your opinion is on this, but anyways, he does say just what you said: that he committed himself to their culture, learned the language, etc, but was not accepted.... "Because I'm a Jew, to be honest..." Check it out again and make of it what you will. I say he's out of his mind. But he is certainly entitled to feel miffed by the Japanese people if he so chooses.... In a message dated 7/30/2004 7:02:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, efrendv(a)yahoo.es writes: I might be wrong again, but I think that in Bookshelf or elsewhere, Zorn has mentioned how Jewish people believe that if they commit to a certain place or country they will be accepted, something like that. I insist, I might be wrong though.

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thoughts on the Film...
by Nathan Holaway 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

You know...I must be one of the few who gets where Zorn is coming from. Zorn gives you little clues throughout the entire film, but...he never gives them all at once. He's like one of those wise masters in the old KungFu movies. If you have read many of the interviews (which most of you have) then yo know other insights into his thoughts on art. Here are just some key points to consider: *Zorn believes in HONESTY. He doesn't do things because they're different, he does things because they're honest. What's the difference between what Huermann did with this film and what Zorn did with the Naked City compositions? He didn't write those to be different. He wrote those because of the way he "felt" at that time. It was an honest move. So was Huermann's. Personally, I didn't like her being in so much of the film...but...that's who SHE is, and who are we to judge her honesty, and what she "felt" needed to be in the film? *The film opens with Zorn saying "Nobody knows who I am except my inner-circle...am I a quiet meditative person, or an angry, obnoxious son of a bitch?" So...the point here is...he may love the film, he may merely respect Huermann's efforts and artistic license that she took with the film...he also may just feel that there's enough footage taken to represent his take on music and what others perceive about him. The point is...only Zorn knows. And seeing that it has been issued and released on his label...its kinda like this list is disemboweling his artistic integrity for releasing it, since the majority dislike the film. If artists like Zorn were to EVER cater to whatever the public wanted...then they wouldn't be who they are...they would be as guilty as every other bubble-gum pop sensation a la Britney Spears. So, let's let the artists be who THEY are...not whom we want them to be. *In an interview Zorn has been famously quoted as saying "I'm not concerned with the way things sound...as much as how they 'work'." This is a classic point to bring up in this debate about the film. Perhaps this reason alone is one of the reasons he took a liking to this film. Perhaps he didn't care as much about what all the film was saying...but how it was being presented. (i.e. lecture footage, sure...but seeing it through a monitor, from your own tv monitor...the fact that he used filecards to create various albums, and that she was documenting a file card composer with file cards...its kinda like those pictures you see of a person standing within a mirror of another mirror within another mirror. So maybe he was just impressed with the way the film "worked". *As one listed earlier...Zorn says...this film must go out and take a life of its own. When he writes something, Frisell would put his weird twist on it and it becomes something else. Zorn also says that parents make a similar mistake in that they raise a child to be something "they" want it to be, not let it go and make a life of its own. So...knowing that this film makes a little more sense. Also in the film, Zorn said...you can't wait for the support of others. You have to do your work, believe in your work, find a close friend-base that believes in you and your work, have "them" for support, and say "Fuck You!" to the rest of the world. Good advice. *Fact: Claudia Huermann's film is released on Tzadik records. Fact: many people on this list have been to www.tzadik.com. Fact: Many people have either forgotten or never bothered to read the quote at the bottom of the opening page that says "what you hear on Tzadik is the artist's vision...undiluted" Huermann's film was undiluted...who are we to say what is acceptable or not, or what the artist's vision "should have been"? *Lastly...Zorn is a man who's reputation and art thrives on the mysterious and the unknown. It's a pretty bold move to jump from duck calls to a Morricone album then to a 20th cent. classical album to a game piece, to an Ornette tribute to Naked City to Masada to Painkiller to the Gift to Electric Masada to IAO and everything in between and since. No one knows what his next move is...and that's what's so great about him and his art. The ever-changing and the unknown. But we respect his integrity and his vision....otherwise we wouldn't pour so much of our time, ears, and wallets into the Tzadik catalog. So...let's just chalk Huermann's film as the only current Zorn documentary, with an honest perspective from the "director's" point of view. And just knowing that whether we like ot or not...for better or worse...its honestly Huermann, and its her vision undiluted, and she has every right to say "Fuck You" to every one who doesn't accept, or enjoy her film. ----Nathan Holaway _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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RE: Amon Tobim Recs/Hemophiliac Live
by Kasra George Ahmadi 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

I first listened to Amon Tobin when he had released "Permutation", then I bought "Bricolage" as well as "Supermodified", all on the Ninja Tune Label. One of my personal favorite albums, however, is under an earlier moniker of his called Cujo. The name of the album skips me right now but the word "Foam" was there somewhere. Kasra George Ahmadi

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Re: thoughts on the Film......
by IOUaLive1＠aol.com 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Well, like I said I only watched the movie once, and he pretty much says everything you just said, only I remember him ending it with something along the lines of "because I'm a Jew". Somebody tell me if I need to watch it again.... In a message dated 7/30/2004 6:26:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, efrendv(a)yahoo.es writes: > Because he was getting vibed for being a Jew ?! I think that's not exactly what Zorn says, or at least what happened. According to Zorn's own words, he didn't feel accepted in Japanese society, despite learning the language, living there 6 months a year for several years and playing with everyone. I could be wrong, but I think Jewishness wasn't involved in his disappointment towards Japan.

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talking to Cecil
by IOUaLive1＠aol.com 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

I just read Kurt's "interview" with Cecil. Very cool. It reminds me of a time when I actually had a pretty coherent (or close to it...) conversation with Cecil. It was at the 55 Bar, a place I frequent as does Cecil. Me, him, and one other patron were talking, the subject was whether "irregardless" is a real word, and whether or not its in the dictionary. I cant remember all of the minute details... I have been known to consume lots of beer there. The word seems unnecessary, it kind of negates itself since it means the same thing as "regardless". But I mentioned that the dictionary does have alot of colloquialisms in it, such as "ain't". Cecil agreed, he said something along the lines of "you're right!", but don't quote me on that.

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Re: thoughts on the Film......
by IOUaLive1＠aol.com 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

I bought the DVD when it came out. I enjoyed it, I watched it once, but I dont think it's something I will watch again, not for a long time anyways. It did give nice insight into his ideas and creative processes, which was nothing new to me since I've seen Zorn about a hundred times, read interviews, seen videos, collected bootlegs, bought the T-shirts, etc. (Actually I dont have a Zorn T-shit.) I really enjoyed the live clips and wish there were more included. I spotted myself at some of those gigs, in particular one of the Masada gigs from December '95. That was pretty cool. It did feel more like a film about Claudia Heurmann to me, but then I looked more closely at the title on the spine: HEUERMANN: A Bookshelf on Top of the Sky. So it makes sense. I do agree with others that it took alot of guts and determination for her to even finish this thing, so she deserves praise for that! One thing in particular that stood out, and was something I didnt know before watching this: Zorn talking about why he doesnt go back to Japan anymore. Because he was getting vibed for being a Jew ?! I mentioned this to another famous downtown musician/Zorn friend/collaborator, who summed it up nicely: "Zorn's out of his mind...." (just talking about his political stances and hard core Zionism.) Anti-semetism is everywhere.... but resenting the Japanese for it.... gimme a break. So yeah, this movie could've been better, but seeing how Zorn wasnt all that into it, maybe not. More live performance footage wouldve really been nice... -Jody

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re: kronos
by Eric van Rees 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

i heard an mp3 of a bill evans song (kronos did a tribute album with bill evans covers), i think it was called 'time remembered' and it is beautiful. havent heard the whole cd yet. there's a performance of kronos in the archives of kcrw.com (show: morning becomes eclectic) where they play a song by sigur ros that is also very good. you can still listen to that show, it has been archived. _________________________________________________________________ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.nl/

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re: arcana
by Eric van Rees 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

i think you can still get it from downtownmusic in nyc. _________________________________________________________________ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.nl/

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kRONOS Quartet
by igorr 123 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

I recently bought Kronos Quartet "Early Music" cd and think it's much different from their other stuff like "Short Stories" or "Winter was Hard". I also checked some kind of portret of KQ "In Accord" on dvd and think it's brilliant. Are they any other recomendations related to them? Best, Igor. n.p. BOBBY McFERRIN "BEYOND THE WORDS" _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail en Messenger on the move http://www.msn.nl/communicatie/smsdiensten/hotmailsmsv2/

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chamber works- definitive editions?
by Shane Brady 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Bonjour Sorry to sidetrack from the 'bookshelf, shit or not' thread (hey it's true, sarcasm doesn't translate well to print) but as all the tracks from Cartoon/S&M exist on other albums; which versions do folks prefer? Do they vary greatly and give hints as to the level of improvisation inherent in the peice. Of particular interest are The Dead Man and Momento Mori. Was only joking with my opening line. I've enjoyed that threads morph into discussion of what makes art and the artistic process. I feel a purpose or function of art is to captivate enthrall or at least alter one's perception. After early listenings to Zorn's game pieces I 'discovered' the beautiful music in birdsong interspersed with traffic sounds (it was quite an epiphany) and thus became art. I don't always percieve traffic as art however. I've also been to plenty of gigs that I did not percieve as any form of art but rather a waste of my time. I realise that by this definition drinking a bottle of scotch creates art,but I don't entirely disagree with that( the statement I mean, not the binge drinking) So if music plays in the forest and no one hears it........ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

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