August 2013 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete Arrows
by Ed 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

Brent, I must apologize, you are correct! I got the wrong orientation from the fuzzy Google Earth images, then discovered the higher resolution Bing images but, mesmerized by the detailed image, failed to notice the orientation. Not intending to beat a dead horse, but why then does the exit 77 arrow not point at the beacon site north of Grantsville, in effect skipping that marker and pointing at Lakeside. Is the answer that if a pilot can see the arrow in daytime, he can fly the straight path to Lakeside, while at night, following beacon lights he would be better off going for the clearer, less confusing perhaps, and brighter beacon directed at him from the marker north of Grantsville before changing course and heading for Lakeside? As a pilot yourself, does that make sense? Could a pilot set a reasonable course based on a short blunt arrow as he flies over or near it? Or, would he have a chart listing the compass course for each leg of the route and use that for navigation? In the later case, I guess the arrow would just be a coarse reminder of which way to turn when passing the marker. Ed ------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 10:22:02 -0700 [11:22:02 AM MDT] From: Brent Watson <brentjwatson(a)yahoo.com> I did try Bing maps. There is better resolution, I agree. However, the arrow at exit 62 looks to point right at the arrow at exit 77. The arrow at exit 77 does point a bit north of Lakepoint, but not that far. I could give the 1930s surveyors a bit of slack, and over that distance an airplane should be able to connect the dots. Neither appears to me to point to Ogden. All of this assumes that Bing keeps north at the very top of the image. Did you notice the color paint on the arrow at exit 77? It looks to be red with a dark blue border. That is different than the yellow they were supposed to be painted. Patrick, is that paint still there? Brent

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete Arrows
by Kelly Ricks 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

I don't think you sound crazy at all. I think your idea of preserving some of these arrows is a great idea--not only repainting, but maybe even reconstructing the whole thing...a mini museum. That way generations who never knew a world without iphones and ipads can marvel at the strangely creative way their ancestors dealt with navigation problems. Quirky little bits of history preserved by chance. I've been trying to find out if there are any arrows still remaining in the Cleveland area, but with no luck. There's a lot less open space out here. My guess is that they've all been bulldozed. One more cool thing about Utah, maybe. ~Kelly > It was really neat standing on those things with all my fancy electronics > thinking how when the arrows were poured almost 100 years ago the workers > doing the pouring could never have imagined things like iPhones and iPads. > > I look at these things as a fascinating part of aviation history. So much > so that I pitched doing a story about them to a reporter friend. He likes > the idea and is thinking sometime next month. We'll see. > > And, at the risk of going a bit crazy here, I'd really like to see at > least some of these things preserved. I'd start with the one off exit 77 > as it's in pretty good shape, already has something of a fence around it > and you can drive right up to it. > > I'm envisioning getting some CAP cadets out there to clear brush and maybe > even apply a coat of the same color paint that was on the arrows > originally. I see on the web it's been done elsewhere, so why not here? > > Lots of pictures in the camera. Hopefully I'll get a few posted later > tonight. > > All in all a really fun day. > > patrick > > On 27 Aug 2013, at 09:24, Joe Bauman wrote: > > > These things were set up 10 miles apart. Some must remain near roads in > nice dark areas. -- Joe > > > > ------------------------------ > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 8:22 AM MDT Erik Hansen wrote: > > > >>> Did not see a road, looks like quite a hike. > >> > >> > >> Great little platforms for setting up in a dark sky area! Do you think > we > >>> could get the government to install electrical outlets and bathrooms > for > >>> us? > >>> > >>> -A > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Patrick Wiggins > >>> <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com>wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Ed, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the tip. > >>> > >>> I looked on Google Earth at that area but could not find it. > >>> > >>> Here's a screen shot of where I was looking: > >>> http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/exit62.jpg > >>> > >>> Is that the right area? If it is can you see the arrow and help me > >>> narrow > >>> the search? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> patrick > >>> > >>> > >>> On 26 Aug 2013, at 07:23, Ed wrote: > >>> > >>>> Patrick, > >>>> > >>>> There is an aviation arrow for the SLC to San Francisco route on top > >>> of > >>> the hill just north of exit 62 on I-80. > >>>> > >>>> This is the same spot I mentioned some time back as a good place to > >>> get > >>> an unobstructed view of the western horizon. > >>>> > >>>> Ed > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 126, Issue 179 > ************************************************ >

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Chaco Culture National Historical Park: Dark Sky
by Bruce Hugo 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

FYI - Just got the latest International Dark Sky Association press release: The 34,000-acre Chaco Culture National Historical Park is home to many ancient wonders including the remains of a civilization that thrived over 1,000 years ago. The park, which has been protecting its archaeological riches since it was established in 1907, is now protecting its views of the starry skies too. It has just been named as the International Dark-Sky Association's newest Dark Sky Park. As a Gold-tier IDA Dark Sky Park, Chaco has shown its commitment to preserving its near-pristine night skies. The park has adopted a set of strict lighting guidelines that include the use of dark-sky friendly lighting now and in the future, ensuring that it will do its part to keep the nighttime environment natural and unspoiled for generations to come. Nice! Bruce Hugo

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete Arrows
by Ed 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

Brent, On the exit 62 eastbound arrow, I disagree, it clearly points considerably north of due east which is not toward the exit 77 arrow, which also points north of due east. The arrow at Lake Point (not Lakeside) has two tails, one for the incoming SFO route and the other for the one from LAX. At least that's the way I see them. For really clear ground pictures, use Bing maps, they are higher resolution from more recent photos. Ed ------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 07:31:40 -0700 [08:31:40 AM MDT] From: Brent Watson <brentjwatson(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Reply-To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete Arrows Headers: Show All Headers | Show Mailing List Information The arrow at exit 62 looks to my eye to be pointed at the arrow at exit 77. The arrow at exit 77 is pointed at the arrow near Lakeside, and passes the intermediate location. There is no arrow at the intermediate location, at least as far as I can see on the sat photo. It is interesting that the Lakeside arrow also has two stems. What does that indicate and where does that route come from?

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Light Pollution
by D P Pierce 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

When I was doing the North Rim Grand Canyon star parties I was surprised at how many people had never seen the Milky Way. As it was rising in the east some thought clouds were approaching. Humorous but sad. Deloy

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete arrows (OT)
by Bruce Hugo 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

Thanks for starting the concrete arrows post Patrick. It is very intersting and a buddy and I plan on hiking to one sometime. If I didn't have to work this afternoon I'd take you up on hiking to the arrow today. BTW - Cool light! --------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 23:35:31 -0600 From: Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete arrows (OT) Message-ID: <AA1039F4-980E-48A3-AB76-DF7096862B9B(a)wirelessbeehive.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, When I started the "Government funded observing platforms" thread I intended it to be just a quick bit of humor that history nuts like me might enjoy. Little did I know it would grow instead of quickly fade. So since folks seem to be enjoying it but realizing it really is off topic I've changed the name of the thread so those not interested can hit delete. At any rate, using the map Brent supplied I was able to find and photograph three of the arrows today (the ones by Stockton, Lakepoint and by I-80's exit 77). I walked all around where the one just north of Grantsville was supposed to be but there was no sign of it. With luck I'll get to the two a bit further west tomorrow and then the one north of the Bountiful airport after that. BTW, while searching for the one above Lakepoint I ended up climbing much higher than I needed to. I just could not find it. So I turned around to sit down for a rest only to see the arrow well below me. Augh. Funny, but while standing on that one I rang Joe to tell him where I was (he's the one that unintentionally got me started on this). And hour or so later he rang me back wanting to make sure I'd made it back down safely (thanks Joe). Also, while coming down I found this bulb sticking out of the dirt: http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/bulb.jpg I figured it must be burned out and some worker had tossed it. But when I got home I found it still works. Weird. Anyone want it? It was really neat standing on those things with all my fancy electronics thinking how when the arrows were poured almost 100 years ago the workers doing the pouring could never have imagined things like iPhones and iPads. I look at these things as a fascinating part of aviation history. So much so that I pitched doing a story about them to a reporter friend. He likes the idea and is thinking sometime next month. We'll see. And, at the risk of going a bit crazy here, I'd really like to see at least some of these things preserved. I'd start with the one off exit 77 as it's in pretty good shape, already has something of a fence around it and you can drive right up to it. I'm envisioning getting some CAP cadets out there to clear brush and maybe even apply a coat of the same color paint that was on the arrows originally. I see on the web it's been done elsewhere, so why not here? Lots of pictures in the camera. Hopefully I'll get a few posted later tonight. All in all a really fun day. patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Light Pollution
by Kelly Ricks 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

I'm just starting to read Paul Bogard's new book "the End of Night." In it, he visits astronomer Bob Berman at his home in upstate NY...a town with no streetlights. Berman said that when his mother in law (who'd lived in big cities all her life) visited for the first time, she came into the house and asked "What are all those white dots in the sky," and of course his wife, Marcy, answered "Those are called stars Mom." Bogard continues: "I've heard people say such things," I laugh, "but I can't believe they're true." Berman leans back and calls, "Marcy, do you remember when your mom said what are those white dots in the sky?" "Yep." "Do you think she was kidding?" "Nope." I highly recommend checking out Bogard's book if you haven't already. He writes beautifully about the subject. ~Kelly ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 18:54:03 -0600 > From: D P Pierce <starsbirdsglyphs(a)gmail.com> > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Light Pollution > Message-ID: > < > CAJJRyEDMJfq1oBaQm9RPWoSQ2cPGURjbGaY8OnJJvgT1+MKEfA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > When I was doing the North Rim Grand Canyon star parties I was surprised > at how many people had never seen the Milky Way. As it was rising in the > east some thought clouds were approaching. Humorous but sad. > > Deloy > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 126, Issue 178 > ************************************************ >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Concrete arrows (OT)
by Ed 28 Aug '13

28 Aug '13

Patrick, Regarding the bulb you found at Lake Point, I would like to have it if it is still available. Could you or Brent (or anyone else) please advise as to how to navigate in the GIS Arrow Project site? If anyone is seriously considering use of these concrete arrows as observing sites, consider the following: The arrows were also the base for a tower in some cases and when those were removed, the steel legs were simply torched off near the concrete surface or unbolted leaving a protruding steel stub or bolt in the concrete. It is tough enough to avoid tripping on these in broad daylight. It would be extremely dangerous walking around on these arrows in the dark. Considering this hazard, their small size, and their roadless access, let's just let them be for their historical value and forget the idea of using them as observing sites. I thought I was pretty familiar with the area around Timpie Springs and exit 77, but I have never spotted that arrow. If you don't mind, could you post the coordinates of the exit 77 arrow? I would love to join you on your hike Patrick, but I can't make it today. Ed

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Rides to SPOC
by D P Pierce 27 Aug '13

27 Aug '13

Hi, I need rides to SPOC Sat and Fri. Deloy

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Government funded observing platforms
by Bruce Hugo 27 Aug '13

27 Aug '13

Thank you all on the photo comments. That was a great night at Kitt Peak with Adam Block, but I must point out that Leslie and I were basically Adam's errand boys all night. Assisting the great astrophotographer! <deep bow to Adam Block> I'm hoping to achieve this level of astrophotography some day! Here is a link to my website where the other two Kitt Peak photos posted. http://www.bhugo.com/7.html My website has not been updated in YEARS... so there are some failed links, old photos, etc. I need to get it cleaned up... when I find the time. *sigh* Try using Google Image sometime and search: adam block astrophotography. His work is AMAZING! He has moved on from Kitt Peak and is located at Mount Lemmon Sky Center, AZ. He has DVD's on astrophotography and workshops. http://www.caelumobservatory.com/index.html Bruce Hugo

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