April 2005 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Wednesday Night Observing
by Olhomorto＠aol.com 06 Apr '05

06 Apr '05

Sorry, it's lone rock. You know, where we went before? Mike

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Wednesday Night Observing
by Olhomorto＠aol.com 06 Apr '05

06 Apr '05

Is Rush Valley closer than "Big Rock" Skull Valley? I'll do either one. Mike

2 1

Wednesday Night Observing
by Olhomorto＠aol.com 06 Apr '05

06 Apr '05

I understand observing was great last night. Is anyone interested in trying it again tonight? Mike

2 1

RE: [UVAA] Tuesday night anyone?
by Richard Tenney 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

Daniel, Tyler and I are definitely planning on heading out tonight; worst case is we don't stray far from the main Pony express road if the flats are too muddy (which seems a little unlikely) since there's so little traffic on it anyway; plans are to stay fairly late if the sky is good and we don't dew up. Rich --- daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Rich: > > According to the weather station at Vernon there has > been a quarter inch of rain since noon today. That > dry lake bed will not be a very nice place until it > gets at least a couple of days of sunshine. Hate to > be a fair weather friend but this one scares me off. > It's snowing at the gravel quarry so I'm saving my > gas money for a better looking sucker hole. > > Daniel Turner > > > > > > > the only clear night we'll have this (new moon) week > is tomorrow (Tuesday). I'm thinking of heading out > to > Rush Valley (Pit 'n Pole) if anyone's interested, > and > it's not too muddy out there after today's > anticipated > showers. I know it's a weeknight and all, I just > hate > to miss an opportunity in the Spring when the > weather > seems to always be against us (that, and the fact > that > the vast majority of the remaining ~130 objects left > on my Herschel-400 list are galaxies in Virgo/Leo > Minor/Ursa Major/Coma B./etc.). > > RSVP if you're up for it. > > -Rich > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. > Join the fun. > http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest > > _______________________________________________ > UVAA mailing list > UVAA(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uvaa > > > > _______________________________________________ > UVAA mailing list > UVAA(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uvaa > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. > Join the fun. > _______________________________________________ > UVAA mailing list > UVAA(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uvaa > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

1 0

Re: [Utah-astronomy] [Fwd: Celestron and Meade on the Ropes (two Orange County Register articles)]
by David Adams 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

As someone who got a graduate degree in Mathematics I would state that one big reason behind this trend is the poor job prospects for mathematicians in America. 40 years ago it was a very different picture. Industry and business used to hire more mathematicians and scientists. Our culture has changed in many ways. We are more focused on short term gain, and less and less on R&D. David Adams --- Joe Bauman <bau(a)desnews.com> wrote: ... > > The outreach coordinator of the Rocky Mountain NASA Space Grant > Consortium, John Vanderford, told me the other day that "40 percent > of NASA employees are going to be retiring in the next 10 years." > ... He also pointed > out that while U.S. universities have plenty of people going into > science and math, they are disproportionately from overseas, from > countries like China and India. Years ago I talked to a visiting > professor from China, who said American students were reluctant to do > the tough work of physics, that they wanted to go after money in > easier fields. But science is worth doing even if it doesn't pay well. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] [Fwd: Celestron and Meade on the Ropes (two Orange County Register articles)]
by Canopus56 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

--- MichaelCarnes <michaelcarnes(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Both Meade and Celestron made bad bets . . . > They figured that fancy computerized scopes > would be must-haves for every acquisitive > househould. These companies' problem seems to be that manufacturing changes that simply created an alternative lower price-point product that undercut their projected market. The large aperature SCT is the best overall scope; it is technically superior. The complicated SCT design combines aperatures near or above 10" with a focal ratio of what - around f/10 - along with good portability and "yoke" tracking. But the prices for 10" of aperature start at around $2,500-$3,500. At a $2,500-$3,500 price point, these scopes appeal to the more limited market of intermediate level amateurs, not the entry level user. Conversely, the now ubiquitious 10" f/5, non-tracking DOB, is $500-$650 with digital setting circles. The 10" DOB is a technically inferior solution to solving the 10" aperature barrier - it has the aperature, but not the focal ratio - and no tracking. But it's ability to get consumers over the 10" aperature barrier at a lower price point means that design inherently will siphon off more entry consumers. A $3,500 telescope is a "consumer" purchase for only those in the top 15% of U.S. households who make over $100,000 in income per year, or about 15 million households. If these two companies made bad investment decisions and market placement calls in response to new price-point competition, they will just have to adjust to the market. They can both downsize but continue to serve a more realistic market size for luxury grade telescopes. Seems like this is a just an ordinary market correction. If the two companies merge that probably will not help them respond to supposed mutual underlying problem - responding to a market preference for lower-price point large aperature telescopes. Conversely, it will harm moderate income consumers. If there is only one seller, SCT telescope prices will go up. Hopefully, neither company has made such a severe miscalculation that they will go out of business and leave their customers in a lurch. IMHO, the real solution to the major reseller's marketing problem is that the manufacturers need to pour money in local amateur astronomy clubs. Even with cheap GOTO, there is still a technical barrier that can only be solved by local "on the ground" amateur experts showing people how to use their scopes. But being a SLAS member, my opinion is a little biased. -:) - Canopus56 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

1 0

Re: [Utah-astronomy] [Fwd: Celestron and Meade on the Ropes (two Orange County Register articles)]
by Michael Carnes 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

>That's an interesting comment on the generational differences. Why is >it that young folks just don't care? As geezers have said since the >new stone age, what's wrong with these kids? I do wonder. -- Joe Actually if I was picking on a generation, I was picking more on my own (boomer) generation. Whether it's giant TVs, giant houses, or giant SUVs, it seems awfully important for many of us to display wealth. I think that's what Celestron and Meade were trying to tap into. To some extent, I think the midpriced GOTO scopes were thought of as baubles. It worked for a little while, but not for long. Going after that elusive market (elusive because it was non-existent) caused both Meade and Celestron to drive prices down to levels that had no margin. Ya gotta make a profit if ya wants to stay in business. As far as those darned kids of today, I think they've got just as much potential as they've got boneheadedness. Same as always. mc

2 1

[Fwd: Celestron and Meade on the Ropes (two Orange County Register articles)]
by Patrick Wiggins 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

This was just posted on the C14 users group. Patrick -------- Original Message -------- Friday, April 1, 2005 Meade Instruments rebuffed in merger effort Federal agency opposes Irvine telescope firm's purchase of area rival. By TAMARA CHUANG The Orange County Register Irvine's Meade Instruments questioned how long it could keep manufacturing telescopes in Orange County after its last-ditch attempt to buy a struggling rival was stymied for the third time by a federal agency. Meade and Celestron in Torrance have competed for years. But falling sales and competition from Asia have hurt the rivals, which both make telescopes in California. The union could save $2 million to $3 million a year in expenses, Meade says, and that could help make both profitable again. Or else, Meade, which employs 550, must do its manufacturing abroad to stay competitive. "We want to combine our companies so we can have sufficient sales to continue to invest in lines we have manufactured here," said Robert Davis, Meade's senior vice president of corporate development. Since the Federal Trade Commission fought Meade's bids to buy Celestron in 1990 and 2002, this time the companies sought the FTC's blessing first, but the agency's staff has again opposed the sale. "What Meade wants to do is have us do something outside the normal process. It's an unusual situation," said Barry Nigro, deputy director in the FTC Bureau of Competition. Celestron is near bankruptcy but has one other potential buyer, Taiwan-based Synta, which has offered less than it would get by liquidating Celestron, Davis said. Meade's offer is for $7.5 million. Meade's U.S. sales of hobby telescopes plunged to $15 million last year, compared with $38 million in 2001, because of overseas competitors' lower costs, Davis said. Joseph Lupica, Celestron's chief executive, could not be reached. Celestron's sale to Synta could go through today, Davis said. Saturday, April 2, 2005 Meade's horizon troubled Irvine telescope maker tries to reassure staff after FTC says it will fight merger. By TAMARA CHUANG The Orange County Register Meade Instruments assured its 300 manufacturing workers Friday that it would do everything to keep those jobs in Irvine, even as overseas competition in the hobby telescope market intensifies. "We're committed to innovation and quality, and we believe that it's best done through maintaining our current situation," said Robert Davis, Meade's senior vice president of corporate development. But the business of making telescopes is changing. Overseas competitors are copying the technology at lower costs and charging lower prices. Meade and its closest U.S. competitor, Celestron, both manufacture telescopes in California. But Celestron hasn't been able to make the business succeed. The Torrance company is near bankruptcy and may be acquired by Taiwan competitor Synta any day now. Joseph Lupica, Celestron's chief executive, did not return calls Friday. "The reality is that we've got to look at competing with an Asian manufacturer that's not subject to the same regulations in the U.S. and here in California. And their labor is much less," Davis said. To survive, Meade and Celestron had formed an agreement to merge, which would save Meade $2 million to $3 million a year after eliminating duplicative expenses. But with the Federal Trade Commission protesting previous merger attempts, the two companies sought FTC approval ahead of time, this time using the "failing firm" doctrine, which could allow two rivals to merge if it otherwise meant one would completely exit the market. The FTC has not made a decision, and spokesman Barry Nigro declined to comment on the case. But Meade has been told by the FTC that if the two companies proceed with the merger, the FTC would fight it, Davis said. "It's just sad that those technologies and jobs are going to go to Asia because the federal government was unwilling to complete its analysis in a timely fashion," he said. Manufacturing jobs in Orange County are on the decline from the days when aerospace dominated the area, according to the Orange County Business Council. But local manufacturing jobs make up 13 percent of all county jobs, which is still a significant number, said Paul Garza, its vice president of economic and workforce development. "Manufacturing, especially what we have here in the county, it's all really high quality," Garza said. "What usually keeps companies here that have the potential to go overseas is they want that close relationship with research and development and manufacturing." Meade has diversified its product line since the 1990s, expanding into lower-priced telescopes, rifle scopes and binoculars with built- in digital cameras. The 550-employee company is working on new technology in each segment with the goal of sharing the high-end innovations with lower-priced product lines. That has encouraged Paul D. Sonkin, chief investment officer for Hummingbird Value Funds, to keep his money invested in Meade. The fund owns more than 8 percent of Meade. "If they are selling a commodity, they have a problem. If they can effectively differentiate their product, it's no longer a commodity and they get better pricing power. That's why you buy Prada shoes instead of shoes from Payless," Sonkin said. Meade's revenues for the fiscal year ending Feb. 28 are expected to be $112 million, down from the prior year's $138 million. The company is also expecting a loss, compared to a profit of $2.45 million last year. Meade reports its 2005 financial results on April 21. Another reason for slower sales could be Meade's recent strategy to sell lower-priced Â– and lower-quality Â– telescopes in department stores to reach a wider audience, says Russell Sipe, past president of the Orange County Astronomical Association. "Celestron and Meade put out some crappy telescopes to sell in department stores. We (amateurs) felt like they sold out. They just weren't the quality that they could be and people were going to try it and not like it and get turned off of astronomy," Sipe said. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/o_XolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Should you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please send an email to C14-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/C14/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: C14-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

3 2

RE: [Utah-astronomy] [Fwd: Celestron and Meade on the Ropes (twoOrange County Register articles)]
by Dale Hooper 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

I think its true that Celestron is in trouble. But, I think Meade's near-term loss has a lot to do with the RCX-400. They've invested a lot of R&D money in it. Delivery of the RCX is running a couple of months behind but the 12" RCX's are "supposed" to start delivery some time this month. If the RCX is a winner - I think Meade will be back in the "barely" black within about a year. M & C -obviously have major investments in California, but, I think to stay viable, in the long term, they will need to start looking elsewhere. Clear skies, Dale. ________________________________ From: utah-astronomy-bounces+dale.hooper=sdl.usu.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com on behalf of MichaelCarnes Sent: Tue 4/5/2005 7:08 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] [Fwd: Celestron and Meade on the Ropes (twoOrange County Register articles)] I've been following this on the SCT group as well. Looks like the end of an era is nigh. Both Meade and Celestron made bad bets on the aging yuppie market (my generation). They figured that fancy computerized scopes would be must-haves for every acquisitive househould. It worked for a little while, but people quickly figured out that even a fancy scope with bells and whistles required training, patience and experience. The advertising for the NexStars and ETXs were dominated by deceptive photos of what you could see. Is it any wonder that such a fad quickly peaked? The real pity is that the optical quality of this generation of scopes is really superb. Leaving the politics aside, one can only hope that the quality of Chinese products continues to improve--looks like that's where our mid-priced optics will be originating. The truth of the matter is that amateur astronomy will never be a broadly-based hobby. There's just too much standing around in the dark for most people. Meade and Celestron bet on a market that just isn't there. Pity. On Apr 4, 2005, at 10:24 PM, Patrick Wiggins wrote: > This was just posted on the C14 users group. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com

1 0

Tuesday Night
by Robert Taylor 05 Apr '05

05 Apr '05

I might be up for a bit of Mid-Week outing at the Pit N' Pole, hopefully it's not too muddy with all the moisture lately. Unfortunately the weather doesn't look good for the rest of the week, so this may be it. Bob Taylor

1 0