November 2005 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: Re: Caldwell catalog
by Chuck Hards 18 Nov '05

18 Nov '05

Thanks, Mike, I'm glad that there are others who appreciate the wisdom of avoiding instant gratification. A parable: About 27 years ago or so, some friends and I went for a day hike to the summit of Mt. Timpanogas (not the cave, but the actual mountain peak); in terms of miles it's a rugged, double-digit trek IIRC. The morning we left, we met a cameraman- a big guy- from KUTV, Channel-2, who was going to hike to the summit carrying about 75 lbs. of camera gear and batteries, for a sports segment featuring Reece Stein. We wondered where Mr. Stein was, and the cameraman only smiled and said he was going to meet him later on. It was a grand day out. The first part of the hike traverses high mountain meadows, explosions of wildflowers, birds, streams and rivulets tubling down rocky & snow-covered slopes, woodland glades. Further-on the trees gave way to permanent snowfields at higher altitudes, a glacier on a steep slope on the backside of the peak, a high-altitude meadow below the final, rocky, stark traverse along a ridgeback to the peak. A sheer drop-off to the west, facing Utah valley, the glacier and upper bowl to the east, and a sheet-metal shack, bolted to the very summit rock on the absolute peak. Hundreds of shards of broken mirrors left by boy-scouts from their yearly signaling project littered the summit area. I have never seen the sky so blue, and a view of the Wasatch front such as you usually only see in an aircraft, and then it's through scratched plastic. All of us up there that day could say nothing to add to the experience, and we felt like we had truly earned the feeling by virtue of the hike, which we felt in our bones by the time we summited. We were Kings of the World. Everything else lay far, far below in the mundane world while we stood at heaven's gate. The cameraman made it up there, amazingly, with his enormous load. He glanced at his watch and a few minutes later a helicopter appeared, and touched one skid to the summit rock a few yards away. Out jumped Reece Stein, and the two filmed the TV segment. A few minutes later the helicopter took Stein away and the cameraman repacked his equipment and began the hike back down. We stayed a while longer, but eventually took a last look from our lofty perch and started back. Several of us decided to take the fast route down the first couple of hundred feet and actually slid down the glacier to the upper bowl, into the "strawberry" snow below. What a rush! Further down the mountain the weather changed and we found ourselves marching back in a hailstorm, lighting exploding all around us- we were inside the storm cloud! Luckily I had brought some trash bags which we fashioned into ersatz ponchos, so we didn't get too wet, but our bare calves got stung from the hailstones. When we finally got back to the parking lot, seemingly parsecs from the summit and a lifetime ago, we were exhausted- yet incredibly at peace with ourselves and still trying to assimilate all we had seen and done that day. My friend and roomate at the time slept in the backseat, his dog on his lap, as I drove home. It is still vivid in my mind all these years later. Now both Mr. Stein and my group, along with the cameraman, reached the summit that day. He took the short, direct route with pricey equipment, we took the long, scenic road, and definitely expended more time and energy on a personal level. Who do you think had the greater feeling of accomplishment? Who saw more sights, who had the most diverse, eclectic experience? At the end of the day, who had the most enriching experience? Who got the most satisfaction from their summit experience? > From: Olhomorto(a)aol.com > I agree with you, Chuck, about the satisfaction of > using an Atlas and > hunting for deep sky objects. Along with the > simultaneous sensations of humility > and feeling that I am part of it all when I stand > under a dark Utah desert > sky, learning and hunting were the biggest draw for > me in astronomy. __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

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Thanks, Cynthia! (OT)
by Patrick Wiggins 18 Nov '05

18 Nov '05

Just a public thanks to Cynthia for putting together tonight's (make that this morning's) group outing to see the new Potter flick. Never thought I'd see the day I'd stand in line for 3 hours to see a 2 hour movie. To the other Potterheads here I'll note (without giving anything away) that the movie is at best a loose interpretation of the book. But then considering the unabridged book on tape ran 20 hours and the movie only two, well, they had to leave some stuff out. So, while there were a few disappointments, on balance it was a fun flick and I recommend it. Patrick

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Re: IIS overpasses Tonight 18:51
by Chuck Hards 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

>From the so-tired-I'm-goofy department: I wonder if NASA would agree to allowing all the members of a certain astronomy club to aim their green lasers at the space station during a particularly favorable overpass, and let the crew try and see it? What kind of distance are we talking about here, a hundred miles or so if directly overhead? The lasers would have to be mounted on a telescope and aligned with a reasonably-high-powered reticle eyepiece in the main instrument. Hand-tracking would have to be pretty darn good lacking a pre-programed script, but since the distance is so great, beam diameter would be larger hence a greater margin of error. I'm thinking that a couple dozen of these just might be visible... The negs of Ann and my laser "experiement" are at the lab and will be done tomorrow. If anything turns out I'll post it on my Gallery page sometime this weekend. __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

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Re: Re: Caldwell catalog
by Chuck Hards 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

Guy and Ed, the point wasn't about marginalizing the flying experience- as a former sailplane pilot I know all too well what you guys are talking about, WITHOUT a deafening engine drowning out even simple conversation- a much more "organic" flying experience- with more finesse and less of a brute force approach. What I intended to do was compare the richness of the experience of getting to the top of a mountain via two different routes. Flying straight there in a helicopter from the valley floor was a short, perhaps interesting experience, but I can't agree at all that it was anywhere nearly as satisfying as working ones way to the summit, on the mountain's terms. Earning something is always, always the more satisfying route than having it handed to you on a platter no matter how interesting the technology. The minimalization of effort, for it's own sake, is rarely if ever intrinsically a good thing. And Guy, as you pointed out yourself, when the technology fails, you're basically screwed if you don't know the sky. Again, I'm not outright condemning using the bells and whistles, just against not learning the basics- not learning to find your way out of the woods, so to speak. Learn the sky, learn to navigate, learn the why's and how's, and you're truly an amateur astronomer. Ignore the fundamentals- depend on the GOTO brain- and you're just another Guy with a telescope. __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Buttars plans a bill on evolution
by David Moulton 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

I think Buttars is interested in getting us started down the slippery slope. "...We want young people who have been taught something else to not doubt what they've been taught (by being) given information that evolution is a fact..." - Gayle Ruzicka We need to give our kids more credit. We treat them like idiots, and thats what we'll get. I think we need to remind our legislators about what happened to the Dover, PA schoolboard. Then again, Pat Robertson might come after us, although I suspect he thinks God has it in for Utah anyways. ;) Religion belongs in the home and in the neighborhood chapel. dm > >Don't worry Patrick. He can propose all the stupid bills he want's, I think >pressure from the public and semi conscious legislators will do the right >thing in the end and keep science as science. You noticed that he seems to >have backed away a bit from his original stance. The people who oppose his >view should continue to pressure their representative and make their views >known. > > > >

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IIS overpasses Tonight 18:51; Friday Moon Party 19:17
by Canopus56 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

Remaining IIS overpasses for November to 12/3. These are low-probability sightings except 12/3. Date DOW TLT T_mag Twi-Ast Az Alt Rating 11/17/2005 Thurs 18:51 1.4 18:43 219.4 61.5 Possible 11/18/2005 Fri 19:17 1.4 18:42 227.5 17.3 Possible 11/20/2005 Sun 18:34 2.1 18:41 228.3 15.3 Problematic 11/29/2005 Tues 6:34 2.1 5:52 132.8 17.9 Problematic 12/01/2005 Thurs 5:50 1.4 5:54 133.5 19.8 Possible 12/03/2005 Sat 6:41 -1.2 5:56 306.5 31.1 Possible TLT = Highest transit point at this local time T_mag = Magnitude at this highest altitude Twi-Ast = Astronomical twilight time Az = Azimuth at highest altitude Alt = Altitude at highest altitude Notes: 11/18 Friday is a school Moon party. The Moon rises after the ISS overpass. Appears az 292.2 WNW deg Brightest az 227.5 SW Disappears az 223.3 deg SW. A pass low on the southwest horizon. At 1.4 mags and low to the horizon, this overpass may not be visible from an urban area but is worth looking for. 11/29 Tues overpass goes within 1 1/4 degs of Jupiter 12/03 Sat overpass goes within 1 deg of Capella; Nautical twilight is at 6:34am __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

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Misc anecdote: Telrads and theatrical lighting
by Canopus56 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

I was out at General Theatrical Supply today to resupply a couple of sheets of Roscolux colored gel. (The red #27 sheets are used for making a red screen for a laptop and the red #120 and blue #83 for covering regular incandescent and red led flashlights for night vision.) The salesperson offered up that they buy Telrad finders in bulk. They mount Telrads on theaterical spotlights to aid pointing them during performances in a dark theatre. - C __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

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Re: Re: Caldwell catalog
by Chuck Hards 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

One disadvantage to the digested list is that you often don't see the posts immediately before your own. Please, everyone, understand that I'm not recommending any one method of observing to the exclusion of another. What I am advocating is knowledge. To deny that, you may as well change your name to 'Buttars'. It's not a case of "Chuck's method" vs. "Guy's method". The debate is whether one should rely on the technology to the exclusion of further learning. That is what I am against. If you know the sky well (you won't need the GoTo) it can only help you enjoy the hobby- it can't possibly hurt the experience. If one leans upon the technology too hard, one risks never advancing beyond a certain point. To never venture beyond one's "comfort zone" means that personal growth has been stifled. A person is cheating themselves from a richer experience, in favor of stasis...'whatever is easiest'. Most of you deserve better than that. __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com

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Re: Re: Caldwell catalog
by Chuck Hards 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

Guy, again you have completely missed the point. I never argued the efficiency of technology- it's obvious that it is a labor-saver. Too, I am not convinced that profitability was a concern in this case, or claiming that astronomical observation is a race; that whoever can slew to the most objects per unit of time wins. Efficiency isn't a benchmark when talking about a qualitative experience. Of course the guy in the helicopter saw "more", but he saw far less detail- less "data" if you will. It's the same reason you use a telescope in the first place- you see "more" with the naked eye, (the equivalent of the helicopter view in this case) but for the really interesting, detailed, informative views you gotta have the telescope! (the equivalent of the close-up trail experience). Most of use would rather have the telescope at the star-party, than just the naked-eye, unless counting meteors or some other task that specifically prohibits telescope use. And, again, you didn't seem to notice that I expressly didn't condemn the technology outright and demand its abolishment. You always fall back on that "where would we be" platform even when it's not applicable to the arguement. What I am a proponent of is knowledge itself. I said learn the sky, learn to get along without the technology and you will have a richer experience no matter what your level of eventual instrumentality. Brent, I, Mike, and others know the satisfaction of knowing the sky as an old friend. Looking up multiple references, reading the full descriptions from many sources, finding the objects in different seasons, parts of the sky, different instruments. Learning the aspects of celestial motions, intuitively feeling the movement of the machine that is the solar system, the rotating earth beneath your feet, the galaxy ascending and descending against the seasonal sky backdrop. You cannot condemn that state of mind until you know what it is. We already know what it means to use a GoTo scope, find everything for us, and let a computer chip give us short, edited descripions. Walk in our shoes first, just as we have walked in yours, then if you still feel you wasted your time, I'll allow that I'm off-base, apologize, and say publicly, "Guy Wins The Debate". And I'm still wondering why someone with your history would even be interested in doing anything the "easy" way, in the first place. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

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Leonids Radio Meteor Observing
by Canopus56 17 Nov '05

17 Nov '05

Although the peak radiant for the Leonids passed overhead during the daytime today, it may be worth trying some basic radio meteor observing tonight. (This is the radio observing level that I am personally at.) Tune to a distant over the horizon FM station 500 to 1000km distant. The frequency you select should be a distant station with no corresponding local FM station. The station you tune to provides the direction of the signal. Listen on the distant station frequency. When a meteor strikes the atmosphere, it reflects the over-the-horizon signal and the station is briefly heard. See illustration at http://radio.meteor.free.fr/us/main.html For the United States, there is an FCC site that can be used to find the location and frequency of distant stations by U.S. cities. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/fmq.html For SLC, there is an FM broadcast "hole" between KRCL 90.9 and KUBL-FM 93.3. Other broadcast "holes" in the FM band are at 89, 92 and 96. (There are several stations near 95.9.) Conversely, Cedar City has a station at 92.5; Grand Junction at 92.3; Tremonton at 92.9 and 96.7; and Ely, Nevada at 92.7. Following along on the internet is also possible during the daytime (or on a Moonlight night). The "Radio Meteor Observatory's On Line" site shows the real time results for amateur stations around the world in a graphical format. http://radio.data.free.fr/main.php3 For example, a western Canadian radio observer posted a nice bell curve showing the peak transiting his daytime location. I have had less luck listening along with the NASA Internet Radio Meteor Station at Roswell New Mexico: http://science.nasa.gov/audio/meteor/navspasur.m3u Enjoy - Canopus56 __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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