May 2011 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: The Science of Whale Flippers
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 30 May '11

30 May '11

Hi Steve, Thanx for the interesting link. We’ve been studying "bumps" or “ serrations’ in nature for many years (our day job). We found they work well “ coming and going”. On the leading edge, they provide more linear inches of cutting surface as well as single point contact for penetration. A natural example would be the teeth of a shark. Early arrowheads mimicked these edges. Modern mimicry would be serrated blades on knives. In plants, they have similar functions in dissipation. On the trailing edge, they affect flow, such as the trailing edge of a bird ’s wings and tail. I’ve often thought about experimenting with serrated trailing edges on sails. Interesting thought you had on keels and rudders. (Maybe it’s time for me to contact Harry on the sails and pick Jerry’s brain on the underwater parts). Another example of sailing invention using mimicry: Back in the ‘80’s, Gail and I were selling an interesting boat called the "Sail Fin". It was a flat transom (for motor) canoe. It had a simple sloop rig with a dagger-board. The dagger-board had what was called a “Whale’s tail” fin at the bottom of the board. Similar to “wings” on some sailboats, but the “tail” was split and extended aft for about 2 feet. In addition to added ballast, the rear section was flexible and when the boat was rocked side to side, the “fins” worked like swim fins and propelled the boat forward. Used for trolling or moving location without motoring or sailing. sal 1985 M15 #361 “Justus” In a message dated 5/13/2011 4:49:56 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, stever707(a)gmail.com writes: Here is an article from the Mechanical Engineering magazine that may be of interest. It describes how bumps on whale fins reduce drag. http://tinyurl.com/Whale-Fins If that link doesn't not work, search for "Whales" and "ASME". The bumps are on the "wrong side" of the fin from a conventional wisdom perspective. They allow a higher angle of attack before stalling. Unfortunately this is useful only in limited circumstances. I wonder if there may be a practical application to a rudder or perhaps centerboard. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Rudder question M 15
by Karen and Smiley 30 May '11

30 May '11

We aborted today's maiden voyage due to excessive heat in the mid Atlantic, predicted highs are around 95F so no go for this guy. We instead rigged M 15 #616 in the school parking lot to see the sail plan and the rigging set up. NICE and Stan Froseth did a great job on everything, if your reading this not from the Aloha State Thanks Stan. I do have one question on the rudder, well actually two. The first is the mechanism on dry land seems to not want to pull the rudder up in the horizontal position, I assume it's because I have no buoyancy from the water below on the wood blade? Second do you sailors use a tiller extension to move your body weight up forward? Man the rigging and set up on the M15 is a breeze. Oh I forget to ask when do you attach the forestay to the deck fitting, mine is on the second hold back and that means that I need to attach the jib to the first hole forward? This seems odd so maybe a fitting that will slip into the last hole will be best. Thanks for your feedback. Smiley magoo252(a)comcast.net

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Re: M_Boats: Rigging a M17
by Larry E Yake 30 May '11

30 May '11

Alright, Tom. You're on! :-) On Sat, 28 May 2011 23:01:26 -0700 Tom Smith <openboatt(a)gmail.com> writes: > Larry, I love you brotha, but no way are you rigging and launching > in > less that a half hour. I'll meet you at Farragut, time you, and if > you do the trick, I'll buy you a strawberry milkshake... t > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > >

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Rigging a M17
by Larry E Yake 29 May '11

29 May '11

Here are a few more thoughts on speeding up the launch process: 1. Keep your rig simple. Lines led aft, etc. are unnecessary on a M17 in my opinion and just add clutter to the deck and time to the rigging process. Boomkickers, vangs, etc. all have their advantages, but if you don't really use them, they take time to set up. 2. Eliminate the need for tools. Leaving the shrouds tensioned has already been mentioned. With your CDI furler, all your tensioning will be done at the backstay. I use a Johnson Lever Lock turnbuckle in place of the standard one. Needs no wrenches, and also works as a backstay tensioner. Replace bolts that need wrenches with hitch pins, or drill a hole through the end of the bolt and use a wingnut with a keeper pin to keep in from backing off. If you have a windex, file the side flat where the set screw hits it so it is self centering. Replace the set screw with a thumb screw. (No tools.) Look for steps that slow you down and find alternatives. 3. Leave your jib sheets and furling line routed from the bow of the boat back through their turning blocks and cleated. Tie them off to a bow cleat or the bow pulpit. When you step your mast, they're all ready to bring up and attach. 4. Leave your genoa furled on the CDI when you trailer. Have a sleeve made to slide over it if you're worried about protecting it from the elements. (I do.) 5. Make sure your mast crutch is built with the cradle far enough back so that you can walk the foot of the mast back from the bow pulpit to the tabernacle without having to lift the spreaders over the cradle. One less trip back and forth. 6. Differing opinions on this, but consider reinforcing the transom so you can leave the motor attached. Not only faster at the ramp, but much easier on an aging back. With my cutout type transom this is much easier and stronger, but there are guys with adjustable motor mounts and reinforced transoms that have had good luck trailering with their motors mounted, as long as they add some lines to help support the bracket and keep the motor from bouncing. There are those who will disagree with this technique, and with good reasons. However, if the complexity of the launch process is keeping you from sailing, I'd rather risk having to repair a cracked transom someday than have the boat sit at home because launching it is too much work. I spend less than a half hour rigging and launching. Sometimes much less. Practice helps. Spectators don't. Ha Ha. Good luck, Larry Yake

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Setting Up the M-17
by Mark House 28 May '11

28 May '11

Having rigged my M-17 twice and taken it down once in the last few weeks, I'm wondering if I'm the slowest rigger alive. It took me 3 hours the first time, about the same the second. First two times I had help. So today when I set up to put the boat at a mooring for the summer, I timed myself. It tool me 2:34 hr. - not much improvement. Here's the breakdown: 17 minutes Remove all tie-downs after 1575 mile drive. 11 minutes Position mast and bolt base in tabernacle. 28 minutes Rig A-frame, raise mast. 33 minutes Attach and adjust all standing rigging. 20 minutes Rig trailer tongue extension. 30 minutes Attach boom, main, battens, flake sail, put on sail cover 15 minutes Unrig trailer tongue extension Everything on the boat was well-tied-down for 1575 highway miles, and I took some extra time to adjust the inner shrouds. I simplify rigging by loosening the starboard shrouds 6 turns, and the backstay 10 turns when I take the rig down. That way it should be quick to set it up the next time. However I forgot to tape the inner turnbuckles last time and lost my careful adjustments. Could do away with the A-frame, but the mast with jib and CDI furler weighs 70 lb! I also took some extra time to tape the ends of my battens. The outboard was already on the boat, so didn't need to be handled. Even so, I don't see how I will ever setup in less than 2 hours. What am I missing? I'm reluctant to take this boat anywhere other than my local lake, as it's just too much work! It's a shame because it performs so well on the water! Mark House "Seranita"

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Rigging 17 again
by Tom Jenkins 27 May '11

27 May '11

I have enjoyed the comments inspired my Mark's email; lots of good experience out there. I raise my 17 mast with a 4-part tackle attached to a ring on the trailer upright about a foot above the bow pulpit, and to the jib halyard (cleated off). The free line on the tackle reaches to the cockpit so I can pull with my left hand and raise the mast about head height with my right hand. No problem from there, because I leave the shrouds and backstay attached, and the tackle has plenty of power. I tension the mast with the tackle until I can pin the furling headstay, then tighten the backstay turnbuckle, which was loosened a bit to free the furler last time around. My IdaSailor mast crutch starts the mast pretty high, but there will come a day when I will not want to raise the mast that last foot or two by hand. I am working on a 1" PVC crutch to solve this problem. Ideally, I think one hand should be dedicated to sway control if possible, although I am considering a set of pre-cut stabilizing "shrouds" from handrails to spreaders for those windy days. Obviously there is a problem with this system when the boat is launched from a sling with the mast down, so I fasten the tackle to a free hole in the stem fitting, and lift the mast a little higher to start. Next time in, I am going to lash to the pulpit and not lift so much. As for the time it takes to rig and unrig the boat, I find most of it is spent gazing at the scenery and chatting with folks in the parking lot. There are worse ways to spend one's time. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla

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Re. The Hill
by Mark House 27 May '11

27 May '11

OK regarding"the hill" At 65, I need a rear view mirror to see it. The worst part of the downhill is when I need to climb down from the boat on its trailer to get a tool I forgot, then climb back up! But thanks to y'all, maybe it will go easier this fall when the M-17 comes off its mooring for the winter. Beers are good. Mark House

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keel guide
by Tom Jenkins 27 May '11

27 May '11

M sailors, Someone brought up the idea of a keel guide to help get the boat on the trailer faster. The "guide" or slot on a Pacific trailer must be about 9" wide, so it is possible to get the keel off-centered and have to float the boat again. Does anyone out there have a tried-and- true design that will make the process foolproof without roughing up the keel gelcoat? Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla

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Re: M_Boats: Setting Up the M-17
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 27 May '11

27 May '11

Excellent - come sliding into home full throttle with tires sqealing and smokin' and slam into the rail ! Anything less ain't living ! Caveat - Do exercise a bit of good sense to maximize the thrill. Well said Bill !

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Re: M_Boats: Setting Up the M-17
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 27 May '11

27 May '11

In a message dated 5/27/2011 5:37:33 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, bownez(a)juno.com writes: Did you get a chance to sail your ultra modified, holes in the boom, slick as shit, two-tone, sneeker-creeper, tall rig M17 against the Sage at Havasu? Bones, Glad to hear you can start sailing - Land of 10,000 lakes...Hope you get much time sailing this summer. No we did not unfortunately. Wanted to but ran out of time and you couldn't crew for me.................LOL. The boat is not really so 'modified'', it is a tall rig, that was available as an option from the factory, 'holes in the boom' -are silliness (we were bored at the shop one day!) 'Slick as poop' - you must have confused the attractive appearance of my topsides with the 'slick as _ _ _ _' part ! But I do have the Koolest handrails around ! I was not able to sail one on one with the Sage - Sailed a bit with Stan & company, and was happy with the results - Stan's boat is very fast and will be even better with some refinement. We did well next to them ( I have a TERRIBLE mainsail as an excuse ) and I think we 'held our own'. Craig - My Crew/Plumber (!), is not a competitive sailor, we sat on the seats and cruised well within striking distance - BUT - The Sage shows some remarkable capacity - VERY 'stiff' boat- accelerates like crazy fun, and I think it is the greatly improved evolution of the Montgomery Lineage well executed. I am impressed with Jerry's new toy.- I am not usually excited unless there is a big improvement in the boat and it adds value the experience. WOW I like that thing. I sailed a fractional rigged boat as my most previous ride (S2 6.7 Grand Slam) and am partial to the fractional rig - especially for short handed sailing - they are easier/more flexible for many reasons. (See the 'Susman Special Speed Sail Rig' - fractional.) So - here is the deal - I have invited Tim D. from Canada to crew for 2012 LHPCC and you have been invited - what say ye? 2012 at Havasu - Stan will probably be there, Jerry probably drag out the proto and any other number of Sage 17s plus ALL the other great folk - with Pocket Cruising devices - we can sail/race along side so as to not disrupt. I will have a new mainsail - probably goofy looking too - it is my 'style'. Optimal conditions for a good speed showing- light air (tall rig is deadly fast in light) and or heavy conditions for the Boys to be overpowered- or anything in between - LH is almost local waters for the boat. I think we have em shakin' in their Dubarrys already! (think that'll work?) First and foremost we will have BIG FUN for SAILING FOLK and get to see FRIENDS ! Let's go sailing in February at Havasu! Scooter slightly modified M-17 tall - (if it was well modified it would FLY...... like Stan's boat)

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