April 2010 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Topping lift
by Bill Wickett 26 Apr '10

26 Apr '10

Jim, I like the idea of rigging the topping lift and letting it help when fitting or stowing the boom. Thanks for the idea. I will set up the fixed at masthead, cleated on boom arrangement this season. Thanks to everyone who responded so promptly Saturday night when I posed the question. I think Tod was back in a minute! Bill M17 #622 - Makin' Time

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Boomkicker discussion
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 26 Apr '10

26 Apr '10

Jim, I think I see what you are referring to. The mast bracket attachment is - spreading the sail track and allowing the lower mount to come out of the mast?? I can't recall what shape piece is used for the nut inside my track - I seem to remember a piece of tapped aluminum rod maybe 1/2" in diameter - will have to check. I wonder if the mast section is of correct temper if the track 'ears' were bent apart by the forces of the fitting? What 'Dwyer' type section (I assume) is the one that is being used or was used on your boat or the most current? I have used the Boomkicker on my original Jerry Montgomery/MacG style mast extrusion and on my current Ballenger section - never had that issue. The newest mast is of harder temper (probably not the proper terminology) but the old one was T-3 and the new one is T-6 don't recall the alloy numbers.They are the same. I don't understand why you would relegate the use of a Boomkicker to a racing application? I have pretty much 'raced myself out' cept for chasing Jerry, Stan and Eldor around! Or Point to Point racing. My reasoning for cruising usage is the same for racing - less windage - less weight aloft - less tangle when it comes to reefing or raising/lowering sail. I find it a simple and elegant solution. Don't worry about "rephrasing". I can't write my way out of coffee can and so often come off as 1. - a smart ass. 2. Jerk. 3. Know it all. 4. Effete snob. I sometimes appear less than diplomatic but don't really mean any harm! It is that my writing skills suck! BTW - I do NOT make my living selling this stuff anymore - I am a retired MIP per USSailing. Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing! GO In a message dated 4/25/2010 10:14:50 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, picfo(a)comcast.net writes: Gary, What I meant by "popping out" was that the slide clamp that sits inside the mast groove would actually spring the mast open enough to... well... "pop out" ( this was on their "0400 model"). Remember that different M17 model years used different mast sections. What works on a Jerry Montgomery era mast might not work on my 2007 model mast. I'm not condemning the Boomkicker for this because I believe they make different fittings that will resolve this issue. To the question; "What is the benefit of a track mount?" My answer is a an assertive; "I dunno." If it's not too late, I'd like to replace the phrase; "get the optional track mount." with; "get the proper fitting for your mast." My point is this: If you do get a model 0400 Boomkicker and install it on your late-model M17, be careful because the stock fitting may spring your mast groove open and "pop out". If this happens I recommend you talk to the Boomkicker people and discuss what fittings they have that can resolve this issue. My overall opinion is that the Boomkicker is a well built product and, if I raced on a regular basis, would definitely consider it again. But, for my style of sailing a topping lift is simpler and better. Gary, anytime someone gets on this list serve and criticizes a product they should certainly be expected to describe the circumstances and clarify their opinion. Thanks for the opportunity. Jim M17 "Spirit" On Apr 25, 2010, at 1:46 AM, GILASAILR(a)aol.com wrote: > Jim, > > I have been using a Boomkicker for about 13 years and never had an > issue > with the item being anything but reliable. > > I sounds like you may not have had enough 'preload' in your rods to > keep it > engaged. I find the product to be elegantly simple and reliable as a > stick. What is the benefit of the track mount ? > > Best part of the Boomkicker- as I get a bit older (what did I do with > that...?) the Boomkicker is at deck level if I forget to connect > it- not at the > masthead! > > I am a subscriber to K.I.S.S. and "stick and stone technology" when > possible. > > GO > > PS to the list - I got to spend some quality time with Stan 'Paint > Boy' > Susman this afternoon and got to see the new yacht! Go Stan!!! > > In a message dated 4/23/2010 10:51:08 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > picfo(a)comcast.net writes: > > If you do get a Boomkicker get the optional track mount. The slug > fitting just pops out of the groove. They seem to be pretty well > constructed otherwise. I still sent mine back after it popped out a > few times (K.I.S.S.) > > Jim > M-17 "Spirit" > > On Apr 23, 2010, at 7:33 PM, <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> > <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> wrote: > >> Has anyone mentioned a boomkicker or similar (http:// >> www.boomkicker.com/) as >> another option? >> >> Depending on how the boat is used, it may prove to be a better >> option (or >> not) to a topping lift. >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >>> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On >>> Behalf Of >>> Gary M Hyde >>> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:29 PM >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sage Marine >>> >>> Haul in the rear reef line as you lower the sail. Then you don't >>> need >>> the topping lift. I did it a lot on my M15. The topping lift >>> might be >>> better though. >>> >>> --Gary Hyde >>> 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Joe Murphy wrote: >>> >>>> I agree. I can't see in my minds eye how to reef without securing >>>> the >>> toping lift first. If not, how do you keep the boom up when you >>> drop >>> the sail?? >>>> Joe >>>> M17 Seafrog >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: eisenee(a)aol.com >>>> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >>>> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 3:23 PM >>>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sage Marine >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You still need that topping lift when reefing and shaking the >>>> reef >>> out. >>>> Eldor >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: ndorf(a)surfbest.net >>>> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >>>> Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2010 3:39 pm >>>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sage Marine >>>> >>>> >>>> Plus, Sal, with a backstay you can do away with the need for a >>>> opping lift if you have a spliced-off section to hook the end of >>>> the >>>> oom onto just while setting up and taking down. >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> montgomery_boats >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi- >>> bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>> montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2814 - Release Date: >>> 04/23/10 06:31:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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outboards
by Arnold Sharpe 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

My Monty friends, I need a new OB for my M-17 "Little Breeze". Presently I have an unreliable 4hp Nissan. Because we sail mostly on the Columbia River we need to be able to buck the current at times. Can I get a recommendation from all you M-17 sailors. Thanks, Arnold Sharpe

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Re: M_Boats: Reefing
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

Larry, Those things are supposed to be secrets!! hahaha :-)

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Re: M_Boats: Reefing
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

Gary, and everyone that reads my drivel today - Which halyard(s) do you carry on the port side of the boat? Inquiring minds want to hear. (trick question) GO. In a message dated 4/25/2010 1:54:24 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, gmhyde1(a)mac.com writes: Larry: Another note to self: Note to self #4: The port side halyard is still the port side halyard, even when you face aft. ⎈--Gary ☺ On Apr 24, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Larry E Yake wrote: > Sean Mulligan wrote: >>> I am certainly not saying that this is THE way to do it, just a > process that we use, have used for years, and works for us. > > Well, Sean, I wish I could say that's the way we reefed Dauntless when > Gary and I were sailing her in the Havasu Pocket Cruisers event. Ha! We > looked like the Keystone Cops! (If you recognize that reference, you've > been around a while!) > > Note to self: Alway review reefing procedures ahead of time when > sailing an unfamiliar boat. > Note to self #2. Releasing the wrong halyard slows down the reefing > process significantly and makes you feel very stupid. > Note to self #3 Not recognizing your mistake quickly while you wonder > why you can't get the sail down confirms that you really are stupid! > > Larry > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Reefing
by Larry E Yake 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

Sean Mulligan wrote: >> I am certainly not saying that this is THE way to do it, just a process that we use, have used for years, and works for us. Well, Sean, I wish I could say that's the way we reefed Dauntless when Gary and I were sailing her in the Havasu Pocket Cruisers event. Ha! We looked like the Keystone Cops! (If you recognize that reference, you've been around a while!) Note to self: Alway review reefing procedures ahead of time when sailing an unfamiliar boat. Note to self #2. Releasing the wrong halyard slows down the reefing process significantly and makes you feel very stupid. Note to self #3 Not recognizing your mistake quickly while you wonder why you can't get the sail down confirms that you really are stupid! Larry

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Re: M_Boats: outboards
by TOMMYVAL＠aol.com 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

Tod, When did you trade up to the Mac19 ? haha Gary

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Bow Roller
by Tim Diebert 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

Have any of you clever folks any ideas or images of bow roller arrangement for a 17? I can have someone at work fabricate something. It is so crowded up there, the attachment point is the issue. I anchor quite a lot and have never come up with a good enough solution to do something about it. While I am on the topic; Other than the Ground Tackle Duffle bag..what do other folks do? My last boat had a small chain locker and I surely do miss that. I have visions of creating one for the 17. Thanks in advance for any help. Tim M17 #369 PUFF Kelowna BC

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Re: M_Boats: outboards
by Bruce Ward 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

While what each sailor and location sailed in will dictate their outboard motor preference, I absolutely love my Yamaha 8 hp electric start 4 stroke. This motor came new with my #32 M17 s/v cerulea when I bought her in Port Townsend in 2008. The previous owner replaced the 6hp he had with this motor. Currents be it ocean, river, or long large mountain lake do not tax forward progress in the M17. BTW mine is mounted in the transom cut out with no issues.

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topping lifts and reefing
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 25 Apr '10

25 Apr '10

Neil, I'm gonna make my case for the topping lift here and oddly enough, I find myself opposite of what Harry Pattison was saying to do when he talked about reefing (and I have the utmost respect for Harry). However this is what works for us, how we do it ,and the rational that I put behind my actions. I am certainly not saying that this is THE way to do it, just a process that we use, have used for years, and works for us. I am a big fan of my topping lift. It allows me to get the forward reef point at the luff secured prior to the hauling in the aft reef point. The reason I do this is so that I can get the luff tensioned properly before I put rearward tension on the sail slugs. If you tension the rear reef point first you put a great deal of tension on those individual slugs, then, to make matters worse, you go to tension the luff and ask those slugs to now try to slide in the track with all that tension on them. If, though, you tension the luff good and tight prior to hauling the aft reef point in, the tension created on the luff by the rearward pull of the aft reef is not point loaded just on the little plastic slugs. I have seen a sloppily reefed main completely "unzip" from the mast when the point loaded plastic slugs just gave up and broke one after another from head to foot. The guy had tensioned the aft reef point first and the luff was very loose and "scalloped" between the slugs, indicating that it was way too loose. The method I use is to always have the topping lift attached to the boom. I then release and lower the halyard to a preset mark (sharpies work great for this) that I know gets the halyard loose enough to allow the forward reef point to get all the way down to the boom. Then, I haul in the forward reef line (or attach the reef cringle into the reef hook depending on which system you use). Now , I tighten the luff TIGHT. You want it tight so that 1. it spreads the load from the rear reef point all along the luff and not just onto the slugs. and 2. You are trying to de-power the sail. The last thing you want is a deep draft in an aft position....by tightening the luff you move the position of draft forward and by having a tight rear reef point you will flatten the sail reducing the depth of the draft and assist in de-powering the main. If you put a sloppy reef in you are defeating the purpose, especially for going to weather. So, after I have the luff lowered, attached and tensioned, Now I haul in the rear reef point. The whole time I am working on the luff, the topping lift has been holding the boom. The rear reef point needs to be hauled both "back" and "down". In other words, the line that is pulling the rear reef cringle down should be leaving the reef cringle and going to the reef block at a 45 degree angle so it gives both directions of pull, out AND down (this is when the reef point is hauled into position at the boom ). If it is not at a 45 degree angle of pull, you will either have a loose foot or a loose leach...both detrimental to the performance of the reef. Only now should the mid sail reef points be secured and they are only secured loosely to control and gather up fabric. They are not re-enforced or designed to handle ANY loads. If you sail is loose footed you can gather just fabric and not go around the boom. If you have to go around the boom, you need to make absolutely sure that the nettles (the lines used to tie up the fabric) take absolutely no load or they will rip out with devastating results for your sail. Also, you must release the nettles first when shaking out the reef and make sure that your front and rear reef points are absolutely secured when the reef is tucked. If one of them releases while under load and the nettles are secured around the boom the mid sail reef points will most likely rip out. Jo and I have been able to get to where we can tuck a good reef in under a minute and it has made our sailing way more fun and much more relaxed. I have had boom kickers and rigid vangs and although they will "hold the boom up" they are not a solid "hold". In other words, if in the process of tucking the reef you need to haul downward on a line that is attached to the boom like an aft reef line, or if you lose you balance and try to use the boom to regain it, ..the back of the boom will continue to drop down as you add force or weight to it. At least that was the case with the ones I used. They are able to hold up the weight of the boom and a little more...but my big a$$ stumbling over a goldendoodle and grabbing the boom for support would cause the boom to just drop down. It's just a personal preference, but for me an adjustable topping lift is much better. Of course all the above is qualified by "IMHO" and as my friend Gary O always states: "your actual mileage may vary!" hehehe ok..well, enough of me rattling on...waiting for the breeze to come up here in San Diego so we can get one more day of sailing in before heading back to the land of powerboats! Sean M23 "Dauntless" _www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com_ (http://www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com)

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