February 2010 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by Jim Ellsworth 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

Dave thanks for your input. Where is the stop pin? That one will probably start coming out now that I know about it :) Sean, thanks for your input, I was going to contact you if I decide to do the glass job to see what cloth you used. Now I know. How deep did you gring the area for the mat? Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Nebwest2(a)aol.com >Sent: Feb 25, 2010 9:56 AM >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem > >I've had the same problem as Jim after replacing both the pivot pin and the > stop pin. What was crazy was the half inch solid silicone bronze pins >(M23) were so tight that I had to drive the old ones out adn the new ones back >in with a small sledge. Yet, every time I went sailing in any kind of >sporting conditions, especially if there was some good swell action, the pivot >pin would back out and always to the port side. I tried beveling the ends >down and marine tex...didn't work...blew the marine tex right out...I tried >a layers of light fiberglass cloth...first trip it was pushing a dent out >into the cloth, next trip it pushed through,...finally I ground down a >little deeper and laid in 2 or 3 layers of heavy Bi-axial cloth that is bullet >proof stuff. That has held it in ever since. Since the old pins lasted 25 >years before I changed them (and yes they had some severe crevis corrosion on >them so who knows how "good" they were at the time I changed them) I >figure it should be a long time before I have to do that again...( I Hope!). > >So far 4 years behind us and neither the swing keel or the shoal draft keel > has fallen off or had any problems (those of you that remember that whole >fiasco are probably as amazed as I am!) AND...the extra ballast I added at >Jerry's recommendation after switching from 100% steel to 100% lead has >made her a stiffer boat and pretty well behaved in a blow. Thanks goodness >for small favors!\ > >Sean >M23 "Dauntless" > >Don't forget to check out the pictures of the Havasu Pocket Cruisers 2010 >event at > >_www.flickr.com/photos/sailhavasu/collections_ >(http://www.flickr.com/photos/sailhavasu/collections) > >Over 1000 posted and more coming...some short video clips as well. >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by Jim Ellsworth 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

Thanks for the input Doug. At this point I think I am going to try to keep the keel fair and clean. If I went with what you are describing I would try to make an indentation where the bolts are then cover with some sort of filler. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: doug henning <doughenning1(a)gmail.com> >Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:57 AM >To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem > >Hi Jim, >I also did my 'board. The swivel pin and the stopper pin were stainless >bolts; the swivel seemed too thin (3/8") and was bent; the stopper was >damaged (gee, I wonder what happened to the P.O.). I went to a non-ferrous >fastener company, and was able to get suitable stainless thin-head bolts and >thin nylok nuts (went 1/2" on swivel, and 5/16" on retainer). Seem to be >working o.k.so far. Granted, the fairness of the hull is now compromised, >but the way I sail, I'll never notice the .01 knot difference... >Cheers, >Doug >M17 Poco Cambio > > > >On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:39 AM, R.K.Graves <rkgraves(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Jim, >> >> What about using a bolt w/lock nut instead of the pin? I've had the >> centerboard out on our M17 and have kept my eye on that pin ever >> since. >> >> Randy Graves >> M17 #410 >> >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 5:46 AM, Jim Ellsworth >> <j_ellsworth(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >> > That's a good Idea, much eaiser than trying to glass it in. Thanks for >> that >> > idea Robbin. >> > >> > Jim >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >> robbin >> > roddewig >> > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:23 AM >> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem >> > >> > Jim, >> > my stop pin is epoxied in. I do not remember having to take it out to >> > drop the board but if you epoxy the holes you could use a good bit of >> > silica additive to make removing the epoxy by drilling out easier. But I >> > see no reason not to epoxy it in. >> > >> > Robbin >> > >> > Jim Ellsworth wrote: >> >> Ok another issue: >> >> >> >> This started during my San Juan trip in June. When I pulled the boat out >> > at >> >> the end of my 15 day trip the centerboard pin was almost all the way >> out. >> > I >> >> have tried putting a coat of 5200 over the holes but the pin keeps >> pushing >> >> through the 5200. I know Sean ground out around the pin area and glassed >> >> over the holes. Has anyone else had this issue and how did you solve >> it. >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> Jim Ellsworth >> >> M-17 #603 Grace >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> >> Ellsworth >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:29 PM >> >> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' >> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track >> >> >> >> Another Option, >> >> >> >> I want to have an adjustable traveler also but don't want to change the >> >> track. I found something on the Schaefer web site. I think the track is >> a >> >> Schaefer 1" and on their web site I found a Spinnaker Pole Slider >> >> Towable/lined part #17-78. This is a car that would fit on the existing >> >> tract with a ring to connect the mainsheet and two u rings on either >> side >> > to >> >> put a single or double block so you can run your lines from an eye strap >> >> then through the blocks and to a cam cleat mounted to the cockpit seat >> > wall. >> >> I am not sure it is any less expensive than the Harken option but it >> could >> >> be done without drilling more holes in the cockpit floor. >> >> >> >> Jim Ellsworth >> >> M-17 #603 Grace >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >> Larry >> > E >> >> Yake >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:15 PM >> >> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: mainsheet track >> >> >> >> Tom, >> >> >> >> When I relocated the mainsheet track, I put it about 18" back from the >> >> companionway. That location has worked out real well. If you do move >> >> your mainsheet track very far, you'll need to also move the boom bail, >> >> but that's easy enough to do. If your worried about drilling extra holes >> >> in your boom, just take a look at Gary O's boom. :-) I would also >> >> recommend doing the epoxy plug thing when you put new holes in the >> >> cockpit sole. That will keep moisture from getting into the wood core, >> >> and also prevent the compression problem. >> >> >> >> Larry Y >> >> >> >> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0800 Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> writes: >> >> >> >>> Hi Randy, >> >>> Thanks for the tips and cautions. I did not know the track was >> >>> through-bolted, since I have never stuck my head up under the >> >>> cockpit. I'm surprised the glass separated from the plywood by >> >>> squeezing too tightly on the bolts; you must have cranked them down >> >>> >> >>> hard enough to compress the wood. >> >>> I will have to get the boat on the water to experiment with the >> >>> track >> >>> location, but the water is still quite hard in our neck of the >> >>> woods. It would be nice to be able to sneak between the sheet and >> >>> >> >>> the tiller to tack without raising the latter (I now have less than >> >>> >> >>> an inch clearance), so perhaps I will get two upgrades in one. >> >>> Tom Jenkins >> >>> M17 #626 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:09 PM, R.K.Graves wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Hi Tom, >> >>>> >> >>>> I can help with some information having done the same on our 1988 >> >>>> model. The cockpit floor is comprised of a >> >>>> fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. The top layer of >> >>>> >> >>> fiberglass is >> >>> >> >>>> as you can see in the cockpit floor with non-skid, and roughly >> >>>> >> >>> 3/16 >> >>> >> >>>> thick. If you were to crawl under your cockpit and look up at the >> >>>> bottom of the floor you would also see fiberglass but this is mat >> >>>> >> >>> and >> >>> >> >>>> resin. Between the two is plywood. My guess is the total thickness >> >>>> >> >>> of >> >>> >> >>>> the sandwich is just less than 1". >> >>>> >> >>>> Tightening the new track caused the top layer of non-skid >> >>>> >> >>> fiberglass >> >>> >> >>>> to separate from the plywood core on our boat (I heard of the >> >>>> >> >>> same >> >>> >> >>>> thing on one other boat). Jerry recommended a vacuum technique to >> >>>> re-bond the two. Jerry made it sound easy but I concluded it was a >> >>>> >> >>> bit >> >>> >> >>>> over my head. The separated area formed a bubble in the forward >> >>>> >> >>> floor >> >>> >> >>>> of the cockpit. I drilled a small hole through the top layer and >> >>>> >> >>> by >> >>> >> >>>> tilting the boat a bit was able to manage a sufficient quantity >> >>>> >> >>> of >> >>> >> >>>> penetrating epoxy into the detached area. I then placed several >> >>>> >> >>> cinder >> >>> >> >>>> blocks on top the floor while it cured. Turned out OK! Lesson >> >>>> >> >>> learned >> >>> >> >>>> is to not over tighten the screws holding the track. They are >> >>>> >> >>> machine >> >>> >> >>>> thread and fender washer and locknut'd on the bottom side. Snub >> >>>> >> >>> with >> >>> >> >>>> some bedding compound and you are good-to-go! >> >>>> >> >>>> Yes, the holes between the two tracks don't line up. Larry took >> >>>> >> >>> the >> >>> >> >>>> opportunity when mounting his new track to move the track forward >> >>>> about 12 inches or so. This still allowed for a person to sit >> >>>> >> >>> forward >> >>> >> >>>> of the track but gave the helmsman more room to move between the >> >>>> mainsheet and tiller. Because of the change in mechanical >> >>>> >> >>> advantage by >> >>> >> >>>> moving the mainsheet forward he also upgraded to a 4-to-1 >> >>>> >> >>> purchase. >> >>> >> >>>> The windward sheeting setup is a nice package and has worked >> >>>> >> >>> great. >> >>> >> >>>> Randy Graves >> >>>> M17 #410 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> >>>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>> I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car >> >>>>> >> >>> setup >> >>> >> >>>>> on my >> >>>>> 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody >> >>>>> >> >>> know >> >>> >> >>>>> what the >> >>>>> present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>>> I install >> >>>>> the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on >> >>>>> >> >>> 3-15/16" >> >>> >> >>>>> centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track >> >>>>> >> >>> at 4" >> >>> >> >>>>> centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement >> >>>>> faulty? (My >> >>>>> boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). >> >>>>> Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Tom Jenkins >> >>>>> Scintilla >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >>> >> >>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >>> >> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >>> >> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> > >> > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> > >> > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by Jim Ellsworth 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

Thanks Sean, Im waiting to see what kink of comments I get here then will decide, and I will take you up on that offer. I had the same feeling when I hauled out after the San Juans, the pin was about 2/3rds of the way out. Thanks! Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Nebwest2(a)aol.com >Sent: Feb 25, 2010 10:21 AM >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem > >Jimmy, > >Uh...I probably beveled out an area around the pivot pin about the size of >a Thirstbuster lid (pretty technical measurement huh?)....Then I had a >couple of circles of the bi-axial cloth, each one bigger than the next, and >glassed them in. The bi-axial is thicker than the regular cloth so I beveled >deep enough so that the cloth pretty much filled the bevel...then I used >some thickened epoxy as filler to fair it out. I haven't had a problem since I >did that, but I'm not saying there isn't a better way...that's just what I >did out of frustration of the dang thing coming out. The year you and us >and Matt and Howie sailed up the coat to Ventura, we stayed and extra day at >Channel Islands and had a pretty romping sail in some good swell out to >about the platform "Gina" then, after we were both laughing and pretty >bruised up from banging into every corner and edge that the cockpit or cabin >could find to attack us with, we turned around. When we put the boat on the >trailer I almost dumped my shorts when I saw how far that pin had backed out! >That would have been "interesting" to have a 300+ lb piece of quadrant >shaped cast iron banging around under the boat swinging from the >pennant....until the pennant broke! > >If you decide to go that route let me know. That cloth is expensive and I >think I have some left over from my keel job I could send you. > >S >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

Yeah, but Dave......."Corndog" should be called "Enigma" ....we can all see it ...but no-one can really understand it! He could be towing a 5 gallon bucket behind that dang thing and still pass me. How does he do that? How does that boat go so fast? How does that boat look so good? No-one knows....the guy is like the Montgomery "Yoda" of the Northwest. I think as he ages he'll shrink to about 2 feet tall, his skin will turn green and he will be seen standing on pilings all over the San Juans giving out advice and words of wisdom...or.... maybe he'll be scolding us mere mortal Montgomery owners! "Boat could use a can of wax, it could." hahaha No bolt head through the keel is going to slow the Yakester down! Sean ...aka "shortbus" M23 "Dauntless"

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 84, Issue 4
by John Crews 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

Robbin, Thanks for the info. The pictures on Sean’s site were extremely useful. This is precisely the kind of repair I envisioned once I realized how the keel and ballast is designed. I’m happy to see the steel punchings can be effectively removed. This is going to be a big project. I hope I can find a good boat repairman in my area to perform it. Sincerely, John Crews

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Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Pin Problem
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 25 Feb '10

25 Feb '10

I've had the same problem as Jim after replacing both the pivot pin and the stop pin. What was crazy was the half inch solid silicone bronze pins (M23) were so tight that I had to drive the old ones out adn the new ones back in with a small sledge. Yet, every time I went sailing in any kind of sporting conditions, especially if there was some good swell action, the pivot pin would back out and always to the port side. I tried beveling the ends down and marine tex...didn't work...blew the marine tex right out...I tried a layers of light fiberglass cloth...first trip it was pushing a dent out into the cloth, next trip it pushed through,...finally I ground down a little deeper and laid in 2 or 3 layers of heavy Bi-axial cloth that is bullet proof stuff. That has held it in ever since. Since the old pins lasted 25 years before I changed them (and yes they had some severe crevis corrosion on them so who knows how "good" they were at the time I changed them) I figure it should be a long time before I have to do that again...( I Hope!). So far 4 years behind us and neither the swing keel or the shoal draft keel has fallen off or had any problems (those of you that remember that whole fiasco are probably as amazed as I am!) AND...the extra ballast I added at Jerry's recommendation after switching from 100% steel to 100% lead has made her a stiffer boat and pretty well behaved in a blow. Thanks goodness for small favors!\ Sean M23 "Dauntless" Don't forget to check out the pictures of the Havasu Pocket Cruisers 2010 event at _www.flickr.com/photos/sailhavasu/collections_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sailhavasu/collections) Over 1000 posted and more coming...some short video clips as well.

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Re: M_Boats: mainsail size
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 24 Feb '10

24 Feb '10

Larry, Try these folk - good work and familiar with the boat. _http://baxtercicero.com/_ (http://baxtercicero.com/) GO In a message dated 2/24/2010 5:44:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, larrypegg(a)aol.com writes: ..... and where to buy, I am buying new sails this year and would like some gudance.. At your service Larry Pegg Pilgrim #55 M-17 208 249 0538 -----Original Message----- From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:41 pm Subject: M_Boats: mainsail size Does anyone happen to know the mainsail size on newer M17's. Can't get hold of mine to measure. Thanks, Tom Jenkins Scintilla 2004 M17 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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mainsail size
by Tom Jenkins 24 Feb '10

24 Feb '10

Does anyone happen to know the mainsail size on newer M17's. Can't get hold of mine to measure. Thanks, Tom Jenkins Scintilla 2004 M17

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mainsheet track
by Tom Jenkins 24 Feb '10

24 Feb '10

I am plotting installation of a Harken windward sheeting car setup on my 2004 M17, in place of the factory T track and slide. Anybody know what the present track is screwed into, so I will know what to expect when I install the 7/8" CB track? Additionally, the new track is bolted on 3-15/16" centers (obviously 10 centimeters), but I measured my old track at 4" centers. Is the old track metric as well, and my measurement faulty? (My boat is many miles away at the moment, so I can't remeasure). Thanks in advance for any insights and assistance. Tom Jenkins Scintilla

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Keel Crack
by John Crews 24 Feb '10

24 Feb '10

I own a 1974 Montgomery 17. The boat has been out of the water for several years. I just noticed a crack in the fiberglass of the shoal keel. I'm not certain of the construction but it looks like an inner steel or iron structure may have rusted, expanded, and split the fiberglass. The crack is roughly horizontal, about midway between the hull and the bottom of the keel, about 2-feet long, and nearer the aft end of the keel. The split is nearly 1/2-inch wide. I also just noticed a bulge and hairline crack on the opposite side of the keel. Any insight and/or suggestions? Thanks. Sincerely, John Crews

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