September 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting
by Larry E Yake 16 Sep '09

16 Sep '09

I go by Spirit Lake all the time. I'll keep an eye out for them. Always good to have another M17 around, but I'm surprised to hear you let her go. Larry On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Danelle Landis <anniesark9(a)yahoo.com> writes: > Hi, > > I've sold my M17 #378 to my mom and stepdad, who have "Ceto" nearby > in Spirit Lake, ID. They're planning to sail in all the nearby > lakes, so maybe you'll run into them! > > I'll bet they'd love to see some other Montys too. > > Danelle Landis > Ketchikan, Alaska > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:20:45 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting > > John, a couple days sooner and we would have seen you there. I just > pulled CornDog out for the season on Sunday. She's waiting for new > go-fast bottom paint now. Across the bay at the Bitter End Marina > you can > see two more M17's and M23 Raven. She's a beauty! > > Larry > > > While on our summer RV trip, and walking through a marina in the > > panhandle of Idaho yesterday, with bottle of beer in hand, I ran > > across Corndog sitting regally on trailer. Looking good and making > > > me wish I still had my old FD Coyote. Pend Oreille was quiet but > > beautiful to behold. Good sailing to all - > > > > > > John from Tucson > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > >

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Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting
by Larry E Yake 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

John, a couple days sooner and we would have seen you there. I just pulled CornDog out for the season on Sunday. She's waiting for new go-fast bottom paint now. Across the bay at the Bitter End Marina you can see two more M17's and M23 Raven. She's a beauty! Larry > While on our summer RV trip, and walking through a marina in the > panhandle of Idaho yesterday, with bottle of beer in hand, I ran > across Corndog sitting regally on trailer. Looking good and making > me wish I still had my old FD Coyote. Pend Oreille was quiet but > beautiful to behold. Good sailing to all - > > > John from Tucson

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Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting
by Larry E Yake 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

CornDog is a fresh water boat most of the time. The only time she's in salt water is for the San Juan cruises for a week or two, and a good washing will clean off the slime. I only moor her part time on Pend Oreille Lake. The longest she's in the water is two months at a time, and I usually give her bottom a good brushing every month or so. The boats that are in the marina here full time use anti-fouling paint, but they don't need anything as strong as on the salt water boats. On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:42:29 -0400 "Joe Murphy" <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> writes: > How long do you keep your boat in the water?? If I left Seafrog in > the > water around here for two weeks I'd be in so much barnacles and > grass ..... > Joe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake(a)juno.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting > > > >>>So Larry, what kind of paint are you using???!!!! > > > > Oh, umm... some cheap house paint. > > > > VC Performance Epoxy. Good two part hard shell epoxy, great for > > trailered boats. No anti-fouling, but good gelcoat protection, and > a > > secret "don't-tell-anyone" teflon component that makes it > slippery. The > > downside is once you've used this paint, there isn't anything I > know of > > that you can apply over it if you want anti-fouling. Maybe VC-17, > but I > > haven't been able to confirm that. > > > > Larry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > >

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Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting
by Larry E Yake 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

>>So Larry, what kind of paint are you using???!!!! Oh, umm... some cheap house paint. VC Performance Epoxy. Good two part hard shell epoxy, great for trailered boats. No anti-fouling, but good gelcoat protection, and a secret "don't-tell-anyone" teflon component that makes it slippery. The downside is once you've used this paint, there isn't anything I know of that you can apply over it if you want anti-fouling. Maybe VC-17, but I haven't been able to confirm that. Larry

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Re: M_Boats: Ida Sailor Rudder
by Larry E Yake 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

I have the original M17 Ida Sailor rudder and the only time I've had any warping was when I stowed it in the bottom of the boat for the winter. It settled in to match the curve of the hull, but after laying it out on a flat surface for a few days it flattened out again. Sailing has never caused it to warp. I'd contact Joel to let him know of your problem. He stands behind his product. Larry

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Re: M_Boats: boom vang
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

Hi Joe, on our 15, John closed up the gate and made a new one lower, almost to the deck house. He has holes drilled in the mast and uses cotter pins to keep the slugs as well as the boom in position. It's simple, but it saved messing with the slugs when reefing. John also said that by pulling down the boom almost to the deckhouse, it acted as a first reef. sal In a message dated 9/14/2009 7:52:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: Tom, When you find the solution for coming up with a gate to fill that %$#& cutout PLEAASE let me know. I just finished a 4 day 120 mile trip. I made a real simple reefing system that I could do completely from the cockpit but I had to go to the mast every time to futz around with the slot and the slugs. If that cutout had a gate I wouldn't have had any problems. But the way it is set up now, I procrastinate on making reefing changes. And heaven help me when I have to reef from the first to second. It's a strange design. I still can't figure out why the cut out is so high. Must be a bolt rope thing. Joe Seafrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Jenkins" <tjenk(a)gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > Jim, > > Within tolerances at E/P, we probably have the same sail. I will measure > it today if the wind doesn't blow me off the boat. > > Mind if I ask how you secure your reefing lines? I like cam cleats, but > the boom is pretty small and roundy even for a Harken micro. I have also > considered medium Ronstan V-cleats with leads, and 4" Schaefer jam > cleats. Any could be made to work after a fashion, but I don't know if I > have considered all the angles. > Frankly, it is fun to do these mods, because little things can make the > boats so user-friendly. The "big one" will be gating the cutout on the > mast so I won't have to get on the deck and feed the sail slugs across it > by hand. > > Tom > > On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:18 AM, James Poulakis wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> Just for reference: >> After surgery my final boom extrusion length came out to exactly >> 93.75". Again, this is just the aluminum extrusion without ANY end >> fittings on it. In retrospect, it could have been cut down to Jerry's >> 93" (7'9"). But in my case, that would have been a little too close for >> comfort. Your mainsail foot length may be different from mine. >> >> By the way, that is exactly how I used my extra cheek block. >> >> Jim >> >> On Sep 13, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> Your verbal description did the trick. There they are in catalogs and >>> in my can of stainless fittings, but I never knew they had a special >>> name. >>> I will need a new location for the topping lift shackle, but your >>> solution will work for me. I will even get a free block for my reefing >>> system. >>> Thanks again for your advice. >>> >>> Tom Jenkins >>> M17 Scintilla >>> >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:17 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>> >>>> Tom, >>>> >>>> A bow shackle is just like a U-shaped pin shackle except it is more >>>> rounded - like a horseshoe (I'll email you a picture of my setup >>>> tomorrow). The bow shackle itself doesn't do anything to adjust >>>> tension, it simply provides a "loop" to pass a few turns of 3/16" line >>>> through. The line runs through the bow shackle and the sail clew >>>> grommet a few times to give a purchase so it can be easily pulled taut >>>> (unlike the stock setup). It is then tied off in a reef knot. >>>> There's really nothing elegant about it. In fact, its the kind of >>>> simple, strong rigging that would look right at home on a 19th century >>>> fishing boat. >>>> >>>> With the boom extrusion cut down to about 7'10" there simply isn't >>>> room for fancy outhaul fittings (not even a cheek block). The thing >>>> to consider carefully is the foot of YOUR particular sail. Pulled >>>> drum-taut, the clew of my stock EP main is left with over an inch to >>>> spare for old age stretch (Jerry M. recommended 1/2"). >>>> >>>> The actual surgery is really simple, but I went through a measure... >>>> think... measure... think... process that lasted over a month before I >>>> finally got the courage to cut into my brand-new boom. I'm happy with >>>> the result. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the excellent information. >>>>> I did not known how high the boom should be set, but with trial and >>>>> error I coincidentally came up with exactly 19" above the tabernacle >>>>> base. My boom measures 8' 2.5" long from the mast to the end of the >>>>> aft fitting, or about 8' even without fittings. This setup overlaps >>>>> the backstay about an inch if the boom rises, so trimming off 2.25" >>>>> would be perfect, with no drawbacks that I can foresee. I too prefer >>>>> to dispense with a vang if I can help it. >>>>> Incidentally, what is a "bow shackle" ? Your solution sounds >>>>> elegant, but I can't visualize a shackle that adjusts tension. Maybe >>>>> a small turnbuckle would also work. >>>>> >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is another rigging oddity with late model M-17s (I think you >>>>>> said yours was a 2004). According to Jerry M. the aluminum boom >>>>>> extrusions should be about 7'9" (without the end fittings). The >>>>>> newer boom extrusions are over 8' long and can hang up on the >>>>>> backstay. This is with the gooseneck correctly positioned at 19" >>>>>> off the deck (per Bob Eeg). >>>>>> >>>>>> My solution was to cut 2-1/4" off the boom, which allows it to >>>>>> barely clear the backstay at all angles. I would have cut it down >>>>>> to Jerry's 7'9" but that would have been too short to accommodate >>>>>> the foot of the now stock Elliot Pattison mainsail. >>>>>> >>>>>> This mod also means doing away with the clew outhaul cheek block. I >>>>>> now lash the clew to a bow shackle attached to the boom end fitting. >>>>>> I actually like this better because it gives me more control over >>>>>> the foot tension and is stronger and simpler. >>>>>> >>>>>> A properly tensioned boom vang should keep you out of trouble as >>>>>> well. However, Spirit is docked in my driveway and I find that more >>>>>> stuff to rig at the launch ramp = less time (and energy) for >>>>>> sailing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Batten hang-ups are another common issue with the later rigs. So >>>>>> far this has just been a minor annoyance for me in light winds. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm just a learner with my 17, so surprises still abound. I found >>>>>>> that an accidental gybe (always a risk in the fluky winds where I >>>>>>> am sailing) can hang the boom in the backstay if the main is >>>>>>> single-reefed. I generally pull the boom across by hand to cushion >>>>>>> the shock of a gybe, so the boom does not ride up, but big gusts >>>>>>> can be unpredictable if they are not touching the lake surface. >>>>>>> Anyway, a vang seemed unnecessary with the mainsheet in >>>>>>> mid-cockpit, but now think a small four- part might hold the boom >>>>>>> down enough to keep it clear of the backstay under unusual >>>>>>> conditions. Any thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On another sail subject, I arbitrarily set the boom at a height >>>>>>> that put the head of the main maybe 6 inches from the masthead. I >>>>>>> tried raising the main to the top of the slot, but the roach in my >>>>>>> (presumably stock) Elliot-Pattison main puts a good chunk of the >>>>>>> sail--and the upper batten--a few inches outside the backstay. Has >>>>>>> anyone had a broken batten or a hung sail during tacking with this >>>>>>> configuration? I prefer not to learn the hard way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>>> 2004 M17 Scintilla >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats >>>>> >>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Sean's video
by Nick Chappell 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

Outstanding! It's been a long day, and I just got to go sailing ... now I feel better. Thanks! Nick C. M-17 #69 (one of them)

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Re: M_Boats: Monty Sighting
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

Never ask Larry to divulge what the heck he does to Corndog as no matter what answer he may give you it will be suspect! Corndog is an anomaly, not of this planet, or something like that. The rules of friction and drag do not apply to her. I have seen it with my own eyes. And he claims she was built in 1979 or some "stuff" like that. C'mon Larry......I know that she's a one-off composite hull that he probably paid Jerry to make up special for him......it's the only answer that makes sense!!!! Oh yeah....or the other possibility......Larry might just be one hell of a sailor........yeah, that's probably it! hahaha So Larry, what kind of paint are you using???!!!! :-) Sean

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Re: M_Boats: So..you're lurking on this list...Wondering...
by eisenee＠aol.com 15 Sep '09

15 Sep '09

Ditto E and D

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Lake Champlain cruise report (long)
by Bill Wickett 14 Sep '09

14 Sep '09

Julie and I cruised the middle portion of Lake Champlain last week on our M17 (still unnamed). We launched from North Hero Marina on Friday afternoon Sept 4 and pulled out on Thursday morning Sept 10. Approximately 55 NM sailed and motored. Lots of relaxing in pretty nice anchorages The ramp at the North Hero Marina is not great and is shallow. It took the tongue extension and some creative weighting on the stern to get the boat off. I believe we loosened a bunk board at that point. Not noticed till well on our way home. 2 nights in Pelots Bay (just around the corner from the marina). Spent the Saturday doing house keeping, a few on board changes and chores and swimming and some sailing out on the larger Carry Bay. We were waiting for friends who keep their Dehler 36 at that marina to arrive on Sat. afternoon. Dinner aboard their beautiful vessel. Was the full moon on Friday night and still spectacular every other night of the cruise. Beautiful orange trail over the water as it rose, then piercing white all night long. Departed Pelots Bay late Sunday morning, clearing the causeway gap at about 11:00. Wind was light and variable with the large high pressure system sitting over eastern North America. It finally died completely about an hour later, 3 miles SE near the La Roche Reef buoy. Friends on the Dehler powered up to us at about 6 knots, heading south to Valcourt Island to get a spot to anchor in either Sloop Cove or Spoon Bay. Was looking to be a busy Labour Day weekend, with some the best weather of the year forecast. We started up the Honda 5 and paced the other boat a bit to establish speeds. We don't have a GPS or speed log. At the start point on the throttle we did 4 knots, halfway down to the slow setting was 3 knots. We continued south at that throttle setting and reach Valcourt Island at about 3:30. Used about 1.25 gallons of gas for the 11NM / 3.5 hour trip. I was pretty happy with that consumption not having any idea of what extended run time would yield. The time seemed to go pretty fast as we had a James Patterson novel on CD playing on the stereo. As you may know, Champlain is a relatively narrow lake with some very deep sections. Seems to be more sail than power boats. Many of the boats are owned by people from the Montreal area of Quebec just to the north. In the North Hero marina, about 80% of the boats are owned by Canadians. Our friends Yvon and Kerstin are a case in point. With normal border crossing conditions, the marina at North Hero is only 75 minutes from their home. Some weekends however, the border crossing congestion can add an extra 90 minutes, even if using one of the smaller entry points. Still, not a bad set up to be on a beautiful body of water. Took us 10 hours drive from west of Toronto. That included some a lunch stop and a 1 hour+ grocery stop in Rouse's Point NY. The Green Mountains of Vermont are clearly visible to the east, and the Northern Adirondacks of NY are to the west. We spoke with Yvon on the VHF (very busy) and also cell phone as we neared Valcourt Island and he had elected to anchor in Spoon Bay. It opens to the north and was a better choice for the forecast southerly winds over the next couple of days. We rafted up to him for a few hours. Swimming was the order of the day, and also visiting with some other acquaintances on another boat. We moved to our own anchor in 15 ft at about 6 pm. I didn't have my steaming/deck light or fixed mount VHF cables connected. They had taken a crushing the last couple of times putting up the mast. (new pathway for the wires is on the to-do list). I could hear them clinking against the mast when we were back over on the Dehler for dinner (this was getting to be a habit!!). After listening to them for a bit and discussing it, Yvon and I dinghied back over to the Montgomery and dropped the mast just after sunset. While he shouldered it in the cockpit, I trimmed a pool noodle and slid it up the mast. Was a bit fussy going past the halyard cleat bolts. We reset the mast and I also put a lot of tension on the errant wires. Success!! A little more quiet over the crowded anchorage. At least no one could bitch about my mast noises and I knew I could sleep better. I guess we were the only boat in the bay who could drop their mast on the water. Some interested onlookers from the larger boats. Most boats left the bay on Monday afternoon to head home. Went from 35 boats to 7 on Monday night. We spent the day "playing" with the boat. We set up a tent fly we had brought with us as cockpit canopy. Used some old fiberglass sectional tent poles at each end. Had standing headroom underneath and good sun and dew protection. Not too bad for a first try. Wind was still forecast from the south "light and variable" until later Tuesday, when a weak cold front would veer the wind to the north. So we changed our plans to go further south to Burlington Vermont, and headed north on Tuesday, to get back closer to North Hero for Wednesday night. We sailed 4 miles to Plattsburgh NY on the west side of the lake. Stopped there for ice, gas and walked into town for late lunch at a sidewalk cafe. Then departed Plattsburgh, rounded "The Head" and tacked north. Crossed the ferry boat lanes. 3 medium sized car ferries cross the lake here at fairly narrow spot. Their track is slightly NW to SE, and they make an arc so the west bound track is north of the east bound track. Sailed parallel to east bound track then tacked over after the ferry passed us. Wind was light so we were stalling in the ferry wake. Started up the motor and cleared the other ferry track as well. Sailed in light wind for another hour and only made maybe 2 miles. We then motored again straight north 3 miles on a glassy surface to Deep Bay with the sun setting. This is in a state park. There are free moorings in the bay. Pretty quiet on the day after Labor Day. Only 5 boats in a 50 boat mooring field. Even motoring was hot work so a swim was in order after we tied up in 10 feet. The cockpit canopy went up in 5 minutes this time, now that we knew how we wanted it. Dinner in the cockpit. Reading in the cabin seats till the moon came up later. Left Deep Bay around 10 the next morning (Wednesday). Circled counterclockwise around Treadwell Bay, following the beach, then east across the lake to Nicols Point and the entrance to "The Gut". This is a round, shallow (less than 10 feet) enclosed bay about 1 1/2 miles across. It is actually a channel between North Hero Island and Grand Isle. The west entrance is through an opening in the abandoned railway causeway that runs north and south down the islands. The east entrance is a bascule bridge on highway 2. Exiting this puts you into the eastern section of Champlain. It is a whole other body of water to explore on another trip. We anchored for lunch, then headed back out onto the main body of the lake. Wind had increased from the north and was reported at15-20 knots on the NOAA weather channel.They cycle through local weather and a Champlain open waters forecast regularly. Stayed in a sheltered area while we changed headsails from the genoa to the working jib. Tacks across the lake heading north took 20-30 minutes on each leg. We were in a really good groove and overhauled a larger boat. He finally gave up and motored straight north to the same place we were going. He only beat us to the gap by 15 minutes and I could see we were having the more comfortable ride and more fun. Very dry going to windward. Only took spray on us 2 times in 2 1/2 hours. We dropped sails inside the old railway causeway and motored around into Pelots Bay for our last night. Wind was forecast to swing 180 dgrees to the south again after midnight so we stayed out in the middle of the bay for the night with 2 other boats. Lots of room to swing, no lee shore to worry about. The north wind slowed to midnight, then dead calm till about 4, when the lapstrakes started chuckling again so I knew we had swung 180 degrees. We hauled out at the ramp again. Found a bit deeper spot I had missed at launching. Probably where power boats had blown out the bottom a bit. Was a great cruise on a very nice piece of fresh water. We had only slept aboard this boat for 3 other nights, so a week long stretch got us very accustomed to the boat, its performance, our storage systems, and spending long stretches aboard. Can't wait to do it again!! Some details. We took a five gallon jug of water, and did not use it all. Used lake water for dish washing. WAG bags for toilet with a bucket for support of the bag, not a porta potti. Philips Environmental is now known as CleanWaste. Website is still www.thepett.com. We have used these before and were satisfied with their performance. More costly, but for a week long cruise they were worth it. 2 small coolers instead of one large one. Easier to move around, although I think one large one would hold the cold a bit longer. At 72-75 F days, and 48-52 nights, we needed to get ice once during the 6 days. Cooked in the cockpit with our Trangia 25 alcohol camping stove. This worked very well for us with the Norseboat and camping. Methyl hydrate is pretty cheap. We used just over a liter for the week. Don't have to worry about propane cans leaking. Anchored from the cockpit with our knock off Bruce. 10 feet of chain, 100 feet of 1/2" rode. We don't have bow chocks yet, so I tie wrapped a 1 foot length of 1" hose to the forward stanchion of the bow pulpit over the toe rail. Bowline through the aft starboard cleat, forward in side the toe rail, out through the hose, then aft to the cockpit, where we stored the anchor and line in a plastic bucket at the rear of the cockpit sole. Would lauch the anchor over the cockpit side, and then take the line forward, pulling in any extra through the hose and cleating it at the bow. We placed a couple of the rubber interlocked rubber grid mats over the coaming to protect from the chain when launching or retreiving the anchor. Have not set up permanent reefing lines yet. We did not have to reef on this trip, but had loose lines ready to do so. Looking for a small towable hard dinghy design that would work with a 17. I guess it needs to be less than 7 feet. Hopefully could overturn it into the cockpit when trailering. Will look at plans on Duckworks. I will post some pictures from the trip on the TSBB Montgomery forum. Bill Wickett M17 #622

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