September 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Poker Run Update
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 23 Sep '09

23 Sep '09

Hey Sal, Right now I have blocked out 30 rooms. Of those 30 rooms....15 or so are already booked! If we need to we can add more rooms. That'd be awesome. There is a fireworks convention in town that same week, so rooms could become and issue of not booked early. That's what is so great about the "no-deposit" booking policy. Get those rooms tied up. They are not charged until the first nights stay. I have added a list of "who's attending" to the bottom of the webpage. Take a look! I have a list of about 20 other "hoping to attend" boats that have not booked a room yet. As they do I will add them to the list. So be sure to let me know if you book a room and are coming! S

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Sept 19th - It's Talk Like A Pirate Day
by Mark Escovedo 23 Sep '09

23 Sep '09

Ahoy Matey's! YAR! Today day be national Talk Like a pirate day!! Board yer fine Montgomery Vessels and hoist a shot O Rum or Grog. She may be sitting pretty on the water or sitting on the hard, it makes no matter, Just give a toast, and a hardy YO HO, to Us all that be blessed to Capt such Fyne Sailing Vessels ;) Capt Black Heart Marc M17 F/D #103 AMY

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Re: M_Boats: Poker Run Update
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 23 Sep '09

23 Sep '09

Thanx Sean, Jo, Sounds like a great event. Is there a cap on the number of rooms available? sal In a message dated 9/21/2009 11:28:22 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Nebwest2(a)aol.com writes: Poker Run Clarification: Ok guys...here's the deal. Early Birds?? Wed 2/10 - Some interest has been put out there about renting a pontoon boat or two and taking a trip upriver through the Topock Gorge, north of town (too shallow for most sailboats and not "sail-able" due to depth and current),. Beautiful place. I'm open ot that if you guys want to do it. Thursday 2/11 - Official Start of event - Arrive, Rig and launch, get boats to Hotel Slip, meet and greet party on the hotel patio overlooking the boats in the evening..Dinner will be served. Friday 2/12 - Circumnavigation Day! (sailing around the Island) and maybe a few gps games during the day...back to the docks in the afternoon for a "Boatshow and Shine" open to the public to show off your boat and check out everyone elses. Dinner at the Martini Bay Restaraunt (in the Hotel overlooking the Bridge) Sat 2/13 Poker Run Day - Sail southbound on the lake searching out Poker Run landmarks with your digital camera. Sat night private party at the indoor/outdoor hotel bar area "Kokomos" with a "cheesey Hawaiin Shirt contest" and Poker Run awards. Jimmy Buffet music will be the order of the evening. Sunday2/14 - The Scavenger Hunt Returns!!! This time...it's land AND sea based. You'll have all day to use your boat, car/truck, two legs, whatever to acquire a list of oddball stuff like you've never seen before! Sunday night group dinner, location to be determined. Event is officially over. Monday 2/15 - TBD - possibly sail down to Steamboat Cove, anchor/beach for lunch and then head back...depends on if there is enough interest. So that's the tentative schedule...You can book rooms now and I would suggest that you do. No deposit is neccesary. They will take a credit card #. The card will be run on the first night's stay. 48 hour cancellation policy. Make Sure to tell them you are with the Havasu Pocket Cruisers Event. Rate should be $99/nt That INCLUDES your slip rental. NO "resort fees" should be charged. 928-855-0888 Pleas let me know if/when you make your reservations so that I can count you as a confirmed participant and keep track of numbers! I am working on the website today and should have it up by this evening with all the particulars, but everything you need to know should be above. If not, send me an email @ nebwest2(a)aol.com Should be a geat event this year. We are shooting for 30 boats attending!! COME JOIN US!! :-) Sean _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Poker Run Wesite now live
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 21 Sep '09

21 Sep '09

You can check it out at _http://havasumontgomerys.piczo.com/?g=43878091&cr=1_ (http://havasumontgomerys.piczo.com/?g=43878091&cr=1) 15 boats are already booked. We are well on the way to 30+. Come join the fun in Feb! Sean

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Re: M_Boats: 'm16' coming planning
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 21 Sep '09

21 Sep '09

That's awesome, I think you are both right on! ...I'll plan on trailering her up there to the Puget Sound and then to the Outer Banks behind my camper when I talk Jerry into letting me take her on her Debut US Tour behind my pickup! hehehe!!! :-) (I wish!) (something tells me Jerry's gonna be doing a lot of sailing as soon as she's on the water!) S

2 1

Re: M_Boats: Poker Run Update
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 21 Sep '09

21 Sep '09

Poker Run Clarification: Ok guys...here's the deal. Early Birds?? Wed 2/10 - Some interest has been put out there about renting a pontoon boat or two and taking a trip upriver through the Topock Gorge, north of town (too shallow for most sailboats and not "sail-able" due to depth and current),. Beautiful place. I'm open ot that if you guys want to do it. Thursday 2/11 - Official Start of event - Arrive, Rig and launch, get boats to Hotel Slip, meet and greet party on the hotel patio overlooking the boats in the evening..Dinner will be served. Friday 2/12 - Circumnavigation Day! (sailing around the Island) and maybe a few gps games during the day...back to the docks in the afternoon for a "Boatshow and Shine" open to the public to show off your boat and check out everyone elses. Dinner at the Martini Bay Restaraunt (in the Hotel overlooking the Bridge) Sat 2/13 Poker Run Day - Sail southbound on the lake searching out Poker Run landmarks with your digital camera. Sat night private party at the indoor/outdoor hotel bar area "Kokomos" with a "cheesey Hawaiin Shirt contest" and Poker Run awards. Jimmy Buffet music will be the order of the evening. Sunday2/14 - The Scavenger Hunt Returns!!! This time...it's land AND sea based. You'll have all day to use your boat, car/truck, two legs, whatever to acquire a list of oddball stuff like you've never seen before! Sunday night group dinner, location to be determined. Event is officially over. Monday 2/15 - TBD - possibly sail down to Steamboat Cove, anchor/beach for lunch and then head back...depends on if there is enough interest. So that's the tentative schedule...You can book rooms now and I would suggest that you do. No deposit is neccesary. They will take a credit card #. The card will be run on the first night's stay. 48 hour cancellation policy. Make Sure to tell them you are with the Havasu Pocket Cruisers Event. Rate should be $99/nt That INCLUDES your slip rental. NO "resort fees" should be charged. 928-855-0888 Pleas let me know if/when you make your reservations so that I can count you as a confirmed participant and keep track of numbers! I am working on the website today and should have it up by this evening with all the particulars, but everything you need to know should be above. If not, send me an email @ nebwest2(a)aol.com Should be a geat event this year. We are shooting for 30 boats attending!! COME JOIN US!! :-) Sean

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Re: M_Boats: boom vang
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 21 Sep '09

21 Sep '09

Hey Jerry, How are you planning the gate on your new 16? sal In a message dated 9/20/2009 10:40:16 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, SALGLESSER(a)aol.com writes: Hi Joe, sorry to be confusing. The original "cut-out" (gate) was eliminated. The slot goes from the lower gate up. There is no gate for the slugs to slip out of. John reformed the original gate to just be part of the slot. I don't know how he did it, but it seemed to be an improvement. John gets these messages, maybe we can get him to chime in? I'm not very good at the picture thing, but I do need to learn, this message board could be an impetus to learn. I've learned a lot here, much with pics. In a message dated 9/20/2009 10:20:58 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: Sal, I'm still a little confused on how John "hammered" the gate closed?? What I'm trying to do is to allow the sail slides to slidedown the mast past the cutout without slipping out. I have a new cutout at the base of the mast for the boom and slides. Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER(a)aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > Hi Joe, > > John "hammered" the gate closed, keeping the slot the same size, and made > a > new gate by spreading the slot in a new location just above the deck. > > We use the cotter keys to keep the slugs above a certain point while > working with the main. It was quite frustrating until we figured this > out. I > don't know if that's the way John did it, but it worked for us. > > sal > > > In a message dated 9/15/2009 8:14:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: > > I understand the cotter pins to keep the boom in place but how was the > gate > closed?? Maybe I'm a little dense > Joe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <SALGLESSER(a)aol.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > > >> Hi Joe, >> >> on our 15, John closed up the gate and made a new one lower, almost to > the >> deck house. He has holes drilled in the mast and uses cotter pins to > keep >> the slugs as well as the boom in position. It's simple, but it saved >> messing with the slugs when reefing. John also said that by pulling > down >> the >> boom almost to the deckhouse, it acted as a first reef. >> >> sal >> >> >> In a message dated 9/14/2009 7:52:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, >> seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: >> >> Tom, >> When you find the solution for coming up with a gate to fill that %$#& >> cutout PLEAASE let me know. I just finished a 4 day 120 mile trip. I >> made >> a real simple reefing system that I could do completely from the >> cockpit >> but >> I had to go to the mast every time to futz around with the slot and >> the >> slugs. If that cutout had a gate I wouldn't have had any problems. >> But >> the >> way it is set up now, I procrastinate on making reefing changes. And >> heaven >> help me when I have to reef from the first to second. >> It's a strange design. I still can't figure out why the cut out is so >> high. >> Must be a bolt rope thing. >> Joe >> Seafrog M17 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Thomas Jenkins" <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:05 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang >> >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> Within tolerances at E/P, we probably have the same sail. I will >> measure >>> it today if the wind doesn't blow me off the boat. >>> >>> Mind if I ask how you secure your reefing lines? I like cam cleats, >> but >>> the boom is pretty small and roundy even for a Harken micro. I have >> also >>> considered medium Ronstan V-cleats with leads, and 4" Schaefer jam >>> cleats. Any could be made to work after a fashion, but I don't know > if >> I >>> have considered all the angles. >>> Frankly, it is fun to do these mods, because little things can make > the >>> boats so user-friendly. The "big one" will be gating the cutout on >> the >>> mast so I won't have to get on the deck and feed the sail slugs >>> across >> it >>> by hand. >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:18 AM, James Poulakis wrote: >>> >>>> Tom, >>>> >>>> Just for reference: >>>> After surgery my final boom extrusion length came out to exactly >>>> 93.75". Again, this is just the aluminum extrusion without ANY end >>>> fittings on it. In retrospect, it could have been cut down to > Jerry's >>>> 93" (7'9"). But in my case, that would have been a little too >>>> close >> for >>>> comfort. Your mainsail foot length may be different from mine. >>>> >>>> By the way, that is exactly how I used my extra cheek block. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, >>>>> >>>>> Your verbal description did the trick. There they are in catalogs >> and >>>>> in my can of stainless fittings, but I never knew they had a >>>>> special >>>>> name. >>>>> I will need a new location for the topping lift shackle, but your >>>>> solution will work for me. I will even get a free block for my >> reefing >>>>> system. >>>>> Thanks again for your advice. >>>>> >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:17 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> A bow shackle is just like a U-shaped pin shackle except it is > more >>>>>> rounded - like a horseshoe (I'll email you a picture of my setup >>>>>> tomorrow). The bow shackle itself doesn't do anything to adjust >>>>>> tension, it simply provides a "loop" to pass a few turns of 3/16" >> line >>>>>> through. The line runs through the bow shackle and the sail clew >>>>>> grommet a few times to give a purchase so it can be easily pulled >> taut >>>>>> (unlike the stock setup). It is then tied off in a reef knot. >>>>>> There's really nothing elegant about it. In fact, its the kind of >>>>>> simple, strong rigging that would look right at home on a 19th >> century >>>>>> fishing boat. >>>>>> >>>>>> With the boom extrusion cut down to about 7'10" there simply isn't >>>>>> room for fancy outhaul fittings (not even a cheek block). The > thing >> >>>>>> to consider carefully is the foot of YOUR particular sail. Pulled >>>>>> drum-taut, the clew of my stock EP main is left with over an inch > to >>>>>> spare for old age stretch (Jerry M. recommended 1/2"). >>>>>> >>>>>> The actual surgery is really simple, but I went through a > measure... >>>>>> think... measure... think... process that lasted over a month > before >> I >>>>>> finally got the courage to cut into my brand-new boom. I'm happy >> with >>>>>> the result. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the excellent information. >>>>>>> I did not known how high the boom should be set, but with trial > and >>>>>>> error I coincidentally came up with exactly 19" above the >> tabernacle >>>>>>> base. My boom measures 8' 2.5" long from the mast to the end of > the >>>>>>> aft fitting, or about 8' even without fittings. This setup >> overlaps >>>>>>> the backstay about an inch if the boom rises, so trimming off > 2.25" >> >>>>>>> would be perfect, with no drawbacks that I can foresee. I too >> prefer >>>>>>> to dispense with a vang if I can help it. >>>>>>> Incidentally, what is a "bow shackle" ? Your solution sounds >>>>>>> elegant, but I can't visualize a shackle that adjusts tension. >> Maybe >>>>>>> a small turnbuckle would also work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is another rigging oddity with late model M-17s (I think > you >>>>>>>> said yours was a 2004). According to Jerry M. the aluminum boom >>>>>>>> extrusions should be about 7'9" (without the end fittings). >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> newer boom extrusions are over 8' long and can hang up on the >>>>>>>> backstay. This is with the gooseneck correctly positioned at > 19" >>>>>>>> off the deck (per Bob Eeg). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My solution was to cut 2-1/4" off the boom, which allows it to >>>>>>>> barely clear the backstay at all angles. I would have cut it > down >> >>>>>>>> to Jerry's 7'9" but that would have been too short to >>>>>>>> accommodate >>>>>>>> the foot of the now stock Elliot Pattison mainsail. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This mod also means doing away with the clew outhaul cheek > block. >> I >>>>>>>> now lash the clew to a bow shackle attached to the boom end >> fitting. >>>>>>>> I actually like this better because it gives me more control >>>>>>>> over >>>>>>>> the foot tension and is stronger and simpler. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A properly tensioned boom vang should keep you out of trouble >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> well. However, Spirit is docked in my driveway and I find that >> more >>>>>>>> stuff to rig at the launch ramp = less time (and energy) for >>>>>>>> sailing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Batten hang-ups are another common issue with the later rigs. > So >>>>>>>> far this has just been a minor annoyance for me in light winds. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm just a learner with my 17, so surprises still abound. I >> found >>>>>>>>> that an accidental gybe (always a risk in the fluky winds where > I >>>>>>>>> am sailing) can hang the boom in the backstay if the main is >>>>>>>>> single-reefed. I generally pull the boom across by hand to >> cushion >>>>>>>>> the shock of a gybe, so the boom does not ride up, but big > gusts >>>>>>>>> can be unpredictable if they are not touching the lake surface. >>>>>>>>> Anyway, a vang seemed unnecessary with the mainsheet in >>>>>>>>> mid-cockpit, but now think a small four- part might hold the >>>>>>>>> boom >>>>>>>>> down enough to keep it clear of the backstay under unusual >>>>>>>>> conditions. Any thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On another sail subject, I arbitrarily set the boom at a >>>>>>>>> height >>>>>>>>> that put the head of the main maybe 6 inches from the masthead. >> I >>>>>>>>> tried raising the main to the top of the slot, but the roach in >> my >>>>>>>>> (presumably stock) Elliot-Pattison main puts a good chunk of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> sail--and the upper batten--a few inches outside the backstay. >> Has >>>>>>>>> anyone had a broken batten or a hung sail during tacking with >> this >>>>>>>>> configuration? I prefer not to learn the hard way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>>>>> 2004 M17 Scintilla >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>>> >>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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1 foot more LOA; how to allocate
by Neil Dorf 20 Sep '09

20 Sep '09

Jerry, As an M15 owner for a couple of months and 3 times out in the boat, if you were seeking owner input on where to allocate the space... Personally I think most of it should go to the cockpit. It would be nice to possibly be able to accomodate up to four adults with less of a 'squeeze'. BUT if you left just 2-3 inches more length for the VBerth that could make all the difference for 6' tall or taller sailors on overnights. Just my 2 cents worth. Neil Dorf Roseville CA

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Re: M_Boats: boom vang
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 20 Sep '09

20 Sep '09

Hi Joe, John "hammered" the gate closed, keeping the slot the same size, and made a new gate by spreading the slot in a new location just above the deck. We use the cotter keys to keep the slugs above a certain point while working with the main. It was quite frustrating until we figured this out. I don't know if that's the way John did it, but it worked for us. sal In a message dated 9/15/2009 8:14:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: I understand the cotter pins to keep the boom in place but how was the gate closed?? Maybe I'm a little dense Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER(a)aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > Hi Joe, > > on our 15, John closed up the gate and made a new one lower, almost to the > deck house. He has holes drilled in the mast and uses cotter pins to keep > the slugs as well as the boom in position. It's simple, but it saved > messing with the slugs when reefing. John also said that by pulling down > the > boom almost to the deckhouse, it acted as a first reef. > > sal > > > In a message dated 9/14/2009 7:52:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: > > Tom, > When you find the solution for coming up with a gate to fill that %$#& > cutout PLEAASE let me know. I just finished a 4 day 120 mile trip. I > made > a real simple reefing system that I could do completely from the cockpit > but > I had to go to the mast every time to futz around with the slot and the > slugs. If that cutout had a gate I wouldn't have had any problems. But > the > way it is set up now, I procrastinate on making reefing changes. And > heaven > help me when I have to reef from the first to second. > It's a strange design. I still can't figure out why the cut out is so > high. > Must be a bolt rope thing. > Joe > Seafrog M17 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Jenkins" <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > > >> Jim, >> >> Within tolerances at E/P, we probably have the same sail. I will > measure >> it today if the wind doesn't blow me off the boat. >> >> Mind if I ask how you secure your reefing lines? I like cam cleats, > but >> the boom is pretty small and roundy even for a Harken micro. I have > also >> considered medium Ronstan V-cleats with leads, and 4" Schaefer jam >> cleats. Any could be made to work after a fashion, but I don't know if > I >> have considered all the angles. >> Frankly, it is fun to do these mods, because little things can make the >> boats so user-friendly. The "big one" will be gating the cutout on > the >> mast so I won't have to get on the deck and feed the sail slugs across > it >> by hand. >> >> Tom >> >> On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:18 AM, James Poulakis wrote: >> >>> Tom, >>> >>> Just for reference: >>> After surgery my final boom extrusion length came out to exactly >>> 93.75". Again, this is just the aluminum extrusion without ANY end >>> fittings on it. In retrospect, it could have been cut down to Jerry's >>> 93" (7'9"). But in my case, that would have been a little too close > for >>> comfort. Your mainsail foot length may be different from mine. >>> >>> By the way, that is exactly how I used my extra cheek block. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>> >>>> Jim, >>>> >>>> Your verbal description did the trick. There they are in catalogs > and >>>> in my can of stainless fittings, but I never knew they had a special >>>> name. >>>> I will need a new location for the topping lift shackle, but your >>>> solution will work for me. I will even get a free block for my > reefing >>>> system. >>>> Thanks again for your advice. >>>> >>>> Tom Jenkins >>>> M17 Scintilla >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:17 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tom, >>>>> >>>>> A bow shackle is just like a U-shaped pin shackle except it is more >>>>> rounded - like a horseshoe (I'll email you a picture of my setup >>>>> tomorrow). The bow shackle itself doesn't do anything to adjust >>>>> tension, it simply provides a "loop" to pass a few turns of 3/16" > line >>>>> through. The line runs through the bow shackle and the sail clew >>>>> grommet a few times to give a purchase so it can be easily pulled > taut >>>>> (unlike the stock setup). It is then tied off in a reef knot. >>>>> There's really nothing elegant about it. In fact, its the kind of >>>>> simple, strong rigging that would look right at home on a 19th > century >>>>> fishing boat. >>>>> >>>>> With the boom extrusion cut down to about 7'10" there simply isn't >>>>> room for fancy outhaul fittings (not even a cheek block). The thing > >>>>> to consider carefully is the foot of YOUR particular sail. Pulled >>>>> drum-taut, the clew of my stock EP main is left with over an inch to >>>>> spare for old age stretch (Jerry M. recommended 1/2"). >>>>> >>>>> The actual surgery is really simple, but I went through a measure... >>>>> think... measure... think... process that lasted over a month before > I >>>>> finally got the courage to cut into my brand-new boom. I'm happy > with >>>>> the result. >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jim, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the excellent information. >>>>>> I did not known how high the boom should be set, but with trial and >>>>>> error I coincidentally came up with exactly 19" above the > tabernacle >>>>>> base. My boom measures 8' 2.5" long from the mast to the end of the >>>>>> aft fitting, or about 8' even without fittings. This setup > overlaps >>>>>> the backstay about an inch if the boom rises, so trimming off 2.25" > >>>>>> would be perfect, with no drawbacks that I can foresee. I too > prefer >>>>>> to dispense with a vang if I can help it. >>>>>> Incidentally, what is a "bow shackle" ? Your solution sounds >>>>>> elegant, but I can't visualize a shackle that adjusts tension. > Maybe >>>>>> a small turnbuckle would also work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is another rigging oddity with late model M-17s (I think you >>>>>>> said yours was a 2004). According to Jerry M. the aluminum boom >>>>>>> extrusions should be about 7'9" (without the end fittings). The >>>>>>> newer boom extrusions are over 8' long and can hang up on the >>>>>>> backstay. This is with the gooseneck correctly positioned at 19" >>>>>>> off the deck (per Bob Eeg). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My solution was to cut 2-1/4" off the boom, which allows it to >>>>>>> barely clear the backstay at all angles. I would have cut it down > >>>>>>> to Jerry's 7'9" but that would have been too short to accommodate >>>>>>> the foot of the now stock Elliot Pattison mainsail. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This mod also means doing away with the clew outhaul cheek block. > I >>>>>>> now lash the clew to a bow shackle attached to the boom end > fitting. >>>>>>> I actually like this better because it gives me more control over >>>>>>> the foot tension and is stronger and simpler. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A properly tensioned boom vang should keep you out of trouble as >>>>>>> well. However, Spirit is docked in my driveway and I find that > more >>>>>>> stuff to rig at the launch ramp = less time (and energy) for >>>>>>> sailing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Batten hang-ups are another common issue with the later rigs. So >>>>>>> far this has just been a minor annoyance for me in light winds. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm just a learner with my 17, so surprises still abound. I > found >>>>>>>> that an accidental gybe (always a risk in the fluky winds where I >>>>>>>> am sailing) can hang the boom in the backstay if the main is >>>>>>>> single-reefed. I generally pull the boom across by hand to > cushion >>>>>>>> the shock of a gybe, so the boom does not ride up, but big gusts >>>>>>>> can be unpredictable if they are not touching the lake surface. >>>>>>>> Anyway, a vang seemed unnecessary with the mainsheet in >>>>>>>> mid-cockpit, but now think a small four- part might hold the boom >>>>>>>> down enough to keep it clear of the backstay under unusual >>>>>>>> conditions. Any thoughts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On another sail subject, I arbitrarily set the boom at a height >>>>>>>> that put the head of the main maybe 6 inches from the masthead. > I >>>>>>>> tried raising the main to the top of the slot, but the roach in > my >>>>>>>> (presumably stock) Elliot-Pattison main puts a good chunk of the >>>>>>>> sail--and the upper batten--a few inches outside the backstay. > Has >>>>>>>> anyone had a broken batten or a hung sail during tacking with > this >>>>>>>> configuration? I prefer not to learn the hard way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>>>> 2004 M17 Scintilla >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > montgomery_boats >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > montgomery_boats >>>>> >>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: boom vang
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 20 Sep '09

20 Sep '09

Hi Joe, sorry to be confusing. The original "cut-out" (gate) was eliminated. The slot goes from the lower gate up. There is no gate for the slugs to slip out of. John reformed the original gate to just be part of the slot. I don't know how he did it, but it seemed to be an improvement. John gets these messages, maybe we can get him to chime in? I'm not very good at the picture thing, but I do need to learn, this message board could be an impetus to learn. I've learned a lot here, much with pics. In a message dated 9/20/2009 10:20:58 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: Sal, I'm still a little confused on how John "hammered" the gate closed?? What I'm trying to do is to allow the sail slides to slidedown the mast past the cutout without slipping out. I have a new cutout at the base of the mast for the boom and slides. Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER(a)aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > Hi Joe, > > John "hammered" the gate closed, keeping the slot the same size, and made > a > new gate by spreading the slot in a new location just above the deck. > > We use the cotter keys to keep the slugs above a certain point while > working with the main. It was quite frustrating until we figured this > out. I > don't know if that's the way John did it, but it worked for us. > > sal > > > In a message dated 9/15/2009 8:14:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: > > I understand the cotter pins to keep the boom in place but how was the > gate > closed?? Maybe I'm a little dense > Joe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <SALGLESSER(a)aol.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang > > >> Hi Joe, >> >> on our 15, John closed up the gate and made a new one lower, almost to > the >> deck house. He has holes drilled in the mast and uses cotter pins to > keep >> the slugs as well as the boom in position. It's simple, but it saved >> messing with the slugs when reefing. John also said that by pulling > down >> the >> boom almost to the deckhouse, it acted as a first reef. >> >> sal >> >> >> In a message dated 9/14/2009 7:52:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, >> seagray(a)embarqmail.com writes: >> >> Tom, >> When you find the solution for coming up with a gate to fill that %$#& >> cutout PLEAASE let me know. I just finished a 4 day 120 mile trip. I >> made >> a real simple reefing system that I could do completely from the >> cockpit >> but >> I had to go to the mast every time to futz around with the slot and >> the >> slugs. If that cutout had a gate I wouldn't have had any problems. >> But >> the >> way it is set up now, I procrastinate on making reefing changes. And >> heaven >> help me when I have to reef from the first to second. >> It's a strange design. I still can't figure out why the cut out is so >> high. >> Must be a bolt rope thing. >> Joe >> Seafrog M17 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Thomas Jenkins" <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:05 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang >> >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> Within tolerances at E/P, we probably have the same sail. I will >> measure >>> it today if the wind doesn't blow me off the boat. >>> >>> Mind if I ask how you secure your reefing lines? I like cam cleats, >> but >>> the boom is pretty small and roundy even for a Harken micro. I have >> also >>> considered medium Ronstan V-cleats with leads, and 4" Schaefer jam >>> cleats. Any could be made to work after a fashion, but I don't know > if >> I >>> have considered all the angles. >>> Frankly, it is fun to do these mods, because little things can make > the >>> boats so user-friendly. The "big one" will be gating the cutout on >> the >>> mast so I won't have to get on the deck and feed the sail slugs >>> across >> it >>> by hand. >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:18 AM, James Poulakis wrote: >>> >>>> Tom, >>>> >>>> Just for reference: >>>> After surgery my final boom extrusion length came out to exactly >>>> 93.75". Again, this is just the aluminum extrusion without ANY end >>>> fittings on it. In retrospect, it could have been cut down to > Jerry's >>>> 93" (7'9"). But in my case, that would have been a little too >>>> close >> for >>>> comfort. Your mainsail foot length may be different from mine. >>>> >>>> By the way, that is exactly how I used my extra cheek block. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jim, >>>>> >>>>> Your verbal description did the trick. There they are in catalogs >> and >>>>> in my can of stainless fittings, but I never knew they had a >>>>> special >>>>> name. >>>>> I will need a new location for the topping lift shackle, but your >>>>> solution will work for me. I will even get a free block for my >> reefing >>>>> system. >>>>> Thanks again for your advice. >>>>> >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:17 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> A bow shackle is just like a U-shaped pin shackle except it is > more >>>>>> rounded - like a horseshoe (I'll email you a picture of my setup >>>>>> tomorrow). The bow shackle itself doesn't do anything to adjust >>>>>> tension, it simply provides a "loop" to pass a few turns of 3/16" >> line >>>>>> through. The line runs through the bow shackle and the sail clew >>>>>> grommet a few times to give a purchase so it can be easily pulled >> taut >>>>>> (unlike the stock setup). It is then tied off in a reef knot. >>>>>> There's really nothing elegant about it. In fact, its the kind of >>>>>> simple, strong rigging that would look right at home on a 19th >> century >>>>>> fishing boat. >>>>>> >>>>>> With the boom extrusion cut down to about 7'10" there simply isn't >>>>>> room for fancy outhaul fittings (not even a cheek block). The > thing >> >>>>>> to consider carefully is the foot of YOUR particular sail. Pulled >>>>>> drum-taut, the clew of my stock EP main is left with over an inch > to >>>>>> spare for old age stretch (Jerry M. recommended 1/2"). >>>>>> >>>>>> The actual surgery is really simple, but I went through a > measure... >>>>>> think... measure... think... process that lasted over a month > before >> I >>>>>> finally got the courage to cut into my brand-new boom. I'm happy >> with >>>>>> the result. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 12, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the excellent information. >>>>>>> I did not known how high the boom should be set, but with trial > and >>>>>>> error I coincidentally came up with exactly 19" above the >> tabernacle >>>>>>> base. My boom measures 8' 2.5" long from the mast to the end of > the >>>>>>> aft fitting, or about 8' even without fittings. This setup >> overlaps >>>>>>> the backstay about an inch if the boom rises, so trimming off > 2.25" >> >>>>>>> would be perfect, with no drawbacks that I can foresee. I too >> prefer >>>>>>> to dispense with a vang if I can help it. >>>>>>> Incidentally, what is a "bow shackle" ? Your solution sounds >>>>>>> elegant, but I can't visualize a shackle that adjusts tension. >> Maybe >>>>>>> a small turnbuckle would also work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is another rigging oddity with late model M-17s (I think > you >>>>>>>> said yours was a 2004). According to Jerry M. the aluminum boom >>>>>>>> extrusions should be about 7'9" (without the end fittings). >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> newer boom extrusions are over 8' long and can hang up on the >>>>>>>> backstay. This is with the gooseneck correctly positioned at > 19" >>>>>>>> off the deck (per Bob Eeg). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My solution was to cut 2-1/4" off the boom, which allows it to >>>>>>>> barely clear the backstay at all angles. I would have cut it > down >> >>>>>>>> to Jerry's 7'9" but that would have been too short to >>>>>>>> accommodate >>>>>>>> the foot of the now stock Elliot Pattison mainsail. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This mod also means doing away with the clew outhaul cheek > block. >> I >>>>>>>> now lash the clew to a bow shackle attached to the boom end >> fitting. >>>>>>>> I actually like this better because it gives me more control >>>>>>>> over >>>>>>>> the foot tension and is stronger and simpler. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A properly tensioned boom vang should keep you out of trouble >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> well. However, Spirit is docked in my driveway and I find that >> more >>>>>>>> stuff to rig at the launch ramp = less time (and energy) for >>>>>>>> sailing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Batten hang-ups are another common issue with the later rigs. > So >>>>>>>> far this has just been a minor annoyance for me in light winds. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm just a learner with my 17, so surprises still abound. I >> found >>>>>>>>> that an accidental gybe (always a risk in the fluky winds where > I >>>>>>>>> am sailing) can hang the boom in the backstay if the main is >>>>>>>>> single-reefed. I generally pull the boom across by hand to >> cushion >>>>>>>>> the shock of a gybe, so the boom does not ride up, but big > gusts >>>>>>>>> can be unpredictable if they are not touching the lake surface. >>>>>>>>> Anyway, a vang seemed unnecessary with the mainsheet in >>>>>>>>> mid-cockpit, but now think a small four- part might hold the >>>>>>>>> boom >>>>>>>>> down enough to keep it clear of the backstay under unusual >>>>>>>>> conditions. Any thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On another sail subject, I arbitrarily set the boom at a >>>>>>>>> height >>>>>>>>> that put the head of the main maybe 6 inches from the masthead. >> I >>>>>>>>> tried raising the main to the top of the slot, but the roach in >> my >>>>>>>>> (presumably stock) Elliot-Pattison main puts a good chunk of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> sail--and the upper batten--a few inches outside the backstay. >> Has >>>>>>>>> anyone had a broken batten or a hung sail during tacking with >> this >>>>>>>>> configuration? I prefer not to learn the hard way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>>>>> 2004 M17 Scintilla >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>>>>>> montgomery_boats >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>>> >>>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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