May 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

mast configuration
by Tom Jenkins 21 May '09

21 May '09

Hello all, I assume the cutout on the M17 mast slot is designed to accomodate a boltrope main (by both size and location), but I find that it is not perfect for slugs. Among other things, one of my slugs falls right in the cutout on a double reef. Is there a reason why the cutout could not be, say, 8-12" from the mast bottom, assuming most newer boats come with slug-type sails? Thanks, Tom Jenkins

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Re: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck
by Robert O. Hess 21 May '09

21 May '09

Connie, No problem. Yes, the VWs are nice, practical vehicles all around, and also more economical than SUVs or trucks. Turbo lag is actually pretty minimal on the 2004 Passat (but more pronounced on our 2002 GTI 1.8T). So, I think that with chocks for safety as you recommended, an extended trailer tongue, and careful throttling on the ramp, things should work. Of course, the proof of the pudding is always in the eating. But there may not be a way I can be sure that it'll work until I have actually tried it. Well, unless I can find someone with a M15 who happens to have the same exact car and uses it on the same exact ramp. Not likely. Thanks again! Robert --- On Thu, 5/21/09, Conbert H. Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Conbert H. Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck To: robertohess(a)yahoo.com, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 2:20 PM Robert O. Hess wrote: > Hi all, > > I live in the LA area and have decided to buy a M15 as my first sailboat. It's really the only boat of this size that I find seaworthy enough for longer trips out to the islands. I am sure you agree :-) > > My problem right now is that I am not sure whether my 2004 VW Passat 1.8 Turbo will make a proper towing vehicle at the launch ramp. While the car is rated - at least in Germany - for 650kg (ca. 1400 lbs) of trailer weight, the car has only front wheel drive and, even without a trailer, is not easy to start smoothly on a steep - dry - incline, due to the turbo charger and also the manual transmission. Several knowledgeable M sailors have also recommended against using the Passsat as a towing vehicle, basically for these reasons. > > Soooo, I am trying to track down Connie Benneck of this site, who apparently tows or towed a M15 with a VW GTI 1.8T, a smaller and lighter version of the Passat. Specifically, I want to ask her what her experience is when pulling the trailer out of the water on a wet ramp. Do the car's front wheels get a good grip? Does she ever slide backwards? How steep is the ramp she is using? And so on. > > If you are on this list, Connie, I'd greatly appreciate your feedback. If not, maybe someone else who knows how to get in touch with Connie could forward this mail to her. My hope is that this list is small enough to make this work somehow. > > Many thanks for your help in advance! > > Robert Hess (unfortunately no relation to Lyle Hess :-( ) > > P.S. I am reading Robert Manry's "Tinkerbelle" right now and am seriously wonder whether the Montgomery line of boat was at least in part insprired by Manry's boat. Anyone know? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > Hi Robert, Sorry, I sent all the answers you raised to Skip, rather than to you. However, I think I've answered all your questions. I didn't have the turbocharged GTI (but my wife does now, - a 2008 car - and it's a great machine - absolutely no turbo lag). Maybe someone else can say a few words about a Passat with the 1.8T engine. Prior to my VW Jetta VR6 wagon, I had one of the first VW GTIs with the 1.8T engine and an automatic transmission. The car was nice, but the turbo didn't kick in till you got to about 3200 RPM, so around town it was sluggish. That's why I then bought the Jetta (a 2002) with the VR6 and no turbo. The Jetta has been a great towing vehicle for our M15. The NYMPH dinghy was carried on a roof rack; the M15 followed along behind; the interior of the station wagon was loaded with all our supplies. It made for a very happy operation. Connie Benneck ex M15 #400 LEPPO

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Re: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck
by Robert O. Hess 21 May '09

21 May '09

Hi again, I am not sure my last message got through. I had simply replied to the digest mail and received a note saying that it may be too long. So here is what I wrote: Fantastic, Connie! That just about wraps it up for me. I also appreciate all the other good advice about the tongue, chocks, etc. I will follow all of it, believe me. You clearly gave this a lot of thought and have of course gone through the experience. So, I am glad I don't have to reinvent the wheel for this one. You just saved me a lot of time, trouble, and probably also money (I had already started thinking about dry storage or even buying a different car). Thanks again for your kind and thorough help! Robert --- On Thu, 5/21/09, wcampion(a)aol.com <wcampion(a)aol.com> wrote: From: wcampion(a)aol.com <wcampion(a)aol.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck To: robertohess(a)yahoo.com, montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 5:52 AM Robert, I don't know if this will help, but until last year, I had been towing my M15 with a 2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed, with no issues. I plan on towing my boat this year with my 2004 Passat Wagon GLX V6 5 speed. I have installed the hitch and by the end of this weekend I hope to have the lights wired. Due to the larger engine and the manual I am hopeful that the Passat will tow and retrieve as well as my Jetta. Also, to help ease the launching and retrieval of my boat, I had a custom tongue extension (8 ft) made for my trailer. This helps keep the car dry and higher on the ramp. If the tires are dry and at a better incline, this all helps retrieving the boat. If anyone has any additional input on this subject, I'd be interested in hearing about their personal experiences. Thanks, Skip Campion M-15 1982 #201 Wild Guppy -----Original Message----- From: Robert O. Hess <robertohess(a)yahoo.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:58 pm Subject: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck Hi all, I live in the LA area and have decided to buy a M15 as my first sailboat. It's really the only boat of this size that I find seaworthy enough for longer trips out to the islands. I am sure you agree :-) My problem right now is that I am not sure whether my 2004 VW Passat 1.8 Turbo will make a proper towing vehicle at the launch ramp. While the car is rated - at least in Germany - for 650kg (ca. 1400 lbs) of trailer weight, the car has only front wheel drive and, even without a trailer, is not easy to start smoothly on a steep - dry - incline, due to the turbo charger and also the manual transmission. Several knowledgeable M sailors have also recommended against using the Passsat as a towing vehicle, basically for these reasons. Soooo, I am trying to track down Connie Benneck of this site, who apparently tows or towed a M15 with a VW GTI 1.8T, a smaller and lighter version of the Passat. Specifically, I want to ask her what her experience is when pulling the trailer out of the water on a wet ramp. Do the car's front wheels get a good grip? Does she ever slide backwards? How steep is the ramp she is using? And so on. If you are on this list, Connie, I'd greatly appreciate your feedback. If not, maybe someone else who knows how to get in touch with Connie could forward this mail to her. My hope is that this list is small enough to make this work somehow. Many thanks for your help in advance! Robert Hess (unfortunately no relation to Lyle Hess :-( ) P.S. I am reading Robert Manry's "Tinkerbelle" right now and am seriously wonder whether the Montgomery line of boat was at least in part insprired by Manry's boat. Anyone know? _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!

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Re: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck
by Robert O. Hess 21 May '09

21 May '09

Skip, That's actually very helpful and encouraging. Though your TDI was a diesel, which would have delivered more torque at the low end and pose less risk of slippage on the ramp, it's good to know that I am not the only person out there who drives a midsize VW and wants to tow a M15 with it. The custom tongue sounds like the right move and had already occurred to me, too. From what I recall at least the new trailers from Montgomery already include an extendable tongue. But maybe I am wrong on this. I would still like to hear from others who may be using a VW with the 1.8 turbo 4-cylinder engine to tow their M15. Anyone? Thanks, Robert --- On Thu, 5/21/09, wcampion(a)aol.com <wcampion(a)aol.com> wrote: From: wcampion(a)aol.com <wcampion(a)aol.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck To: robertohess(a)yahoo.com, montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 5:52 AM Robert, I don't know if this will help, but until last year, I had been towing my M15 with a 2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed, with no issues. I plan on towing my boat this year with my 2004 Passat Wagon GLX V6 5 speed. I have installed the hitch and by the end of this weekend I hope to have the lights wired. Due to the larger engine and the manual I am hopeful that the Passat will tow and retrieve as well as my Jetta. Also, to help ease the launching and retrieval of my boat, I had a custom tongue extension (8 ft) made for my trailer. This helps keep the car dry and higher on the ramp. If the tires are dry and at a better incline, this all helps retrieving the boat. If anyone has any additional input on this subject, I'd be interested in hearing about their personal experiences. Thanks, Skip Campion M-15 1982 #201 Wild Guppy -----Original Message----- From: Robert O. Hess <robertohess(a)yahoo.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:58 pm Subject: M_Boats: Paging Connie Benneck Hi all, I live in the LA area and have decided to buy a M15 as my first sailboat. It's really the only boat of this size that I find seaworthy enough for longer trips out to the islands. I am sure you agree :-) My problem right now is that I am not sure whether my 2004 VW Passat 1.8 Turbo will make a proper towing vehicle at the launch ramp. While the car is rated - at least in Germany - for 650kg (ca. 1400 lbs) of trailer weight, the car has only front wheel drive and, even without a trailer, is not easy to start smoothly on a steep - dry - incline, due to the turbo charger and also the manual transmission. Several knowledgeable M sailors have also recommended against using the Passsat as a towing vehicle, basically for these reasons. Soooo, I am trying to track down Connie Benneck of this site, who apparently tows or towed a M15 with a VW GTI 1.8T, a smaller and lighter version of the Passat. Specifically, I want to ask her what her experience is when pulling the trailer out of the water on a wet ramp. Do the car's front wheels get a good grip? Does she ever slide backwards? How steep is the ramp she is using? And so on. If you are on this list, Connie, I'd greatly appreciate your feedback. If not, maybe someone else who knows how to get in touch with Connie could forward this mail to her. My hope is that this list is small enough to make this work somehow. Many thanks for your help in advance! Robert Hess (unfortunately no relation to Lyle Hess :-( ) P.S. I am reading Robert Manry's "Tinkerbelle" right now and am seriously wonder whether the Montgomery line of boat was at least in part insprired by Manry's boat. Anyone know? _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!

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Re: M_Boats: An apology
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 20 May '09

20 May '09

M_Boats: An apology Bob From California _ocean37 at hotmail.com _ (mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com?Subject=Re:%20M_Boats:%20An%20apology&In-Reply-To=<BLU112-W 80A861E46271760865B29AD940(a)phx.gbl>) Sat Mar 21 09:50:18 MDT 2009 * Previous message: _M_Boats: An apology _ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) * Next message: _M_Boats: An apology _ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) * Messages sorted by: _[ date ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) _[ thread ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) _[ subject ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) _[ author ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) ____________________________________ No worries Jerry....Each of the new boats have about 12 to 15 days of time before completion. And while some vendors have gone under or closed; our new suppliers have stepped up. It's going to be a great summer sailing season.! Bob > From: _jerrywlinux at comcast.net_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats) > To: _montgomery_boats at mailman.xmission.com_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats) > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:45:30 -0400 > Subject: M_Boats: An apology > > I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Bob Eeg > for my comment about possibly taking legal action against him (mentioned > last night in a note accidentally sent to the forum). The cause of my > frustration is the late delivery of our boat, "Robin's Nest", which was > slated for completion in June 2008. There were other facts & issues at > play which I was not aware of at the time of the posting. I regret > hitting the "send" button and hope my actions do not impact Montgomery's > future sales. > > I should note that I was not coerced into sending this note by Bob Eeg. > Sorry Bob. > Jerry Wolczanski > Warrenton, VA > > > _______________________________________________ > _http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats) > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ____________________________________ * Previous message: _M_Boats: An apology _ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) * Next message: _M_Boats: An apology _ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) * Messages sorted by: _[ date ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) _[ thread ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) _[ subject ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) _[ author ]_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-M…) ____________________________________ _More information about the montgomery_boats mailing list_ (http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats) **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222399266x1201456865/aol?redir=htt… 3%3Bf)

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Re: M_Boats: An apology
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 20 May '09

20 May '09

Bob, This was your post on March 21st. It is now May 20th. Finish our boat, Bob. sal **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222399266x1201456865/aol?redir=htt… 3%3Bf)

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Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 20 May '09

20 May '09

Hi Bill, We regularly towed our 2,000 lb boat + trailer with a V6 Toyota P.U. Up & down Colorado mountains. Sometimes we were down to 50 MPH, but we always got there, launched and retrieved the boat. sal In a message dated 5/20/200Hi Bill9 8:18:16 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cparrish(a)fafnirnet.net writes: Hi Bill, I would check the owners manual for your truck and see what the towing capacity is. I pulled my M17 one summer with a 4 cylinder Jeep Wrangler and didn't have issues. Adding trailer brakes was a nice upgrade and I would recommend it. --Chad > > I would like to see the rigging and launching of an M-17 firsthand. > If anyone is planning on launching an M-17 in Oxnard or Ventura (or > maybe Lake Isabella), in the next couple of weeks, or so, please e- > mail me, or call me at (417) 425-3945 (cell), and I'll see if I can > make arrangements to meet you there and see what's it's like to rig > and launch it. I'm considering becoming a 17 owner, but need to see > what I would be getting into. I'm also not sure whether I would be > able to tow and launch a 17 with my Toyota Tacoma four cylinder > pickup. If anyone has any practical advice on towing a 17 with a > small vehicle, I would appreciate hearing it. > > Bill Day > M-15 363, "Gee Whiz!" > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222399266x1201456865/aol?redir=htt… 3%3Bf)

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Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
by W David Scobie 20 May '09

20 May '09

bill: the only emails i've seen with 'header' information have been the two you sent on 19 may. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (for sale, http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred) --- On Tue, 5/19/09, Bill "C" Day <bill(a)gotrain.org> wrote: x-authenticated : Sender SMTP authenticated by smtp.gotrain.org X-XM-SPF: eid=;;;mid=;;;hst=mx02.mta.xmission.com;;;ip=69.54.158.25;;;frm=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;spf=none X-XM-DomainKey: sender_domain=gotrain.org;;;sender=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;status=no signature X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.54.158.25 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bill(a)gotrain.org X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sa02.xmission.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.1 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_50,DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE, MISSING_HB_SEP,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Combo: ***;For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> X-Spam-Relay-Country: XX US X-Spam-Report: * 0.6 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is a abuseable web server * [66.81.28.31 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.5 MISSING_HB_SEP Missing blank line between message header and body * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG * 0.0 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 40 to 60% * [score: 0.5000] * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC * [sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1] Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:26:12 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mx02.mta.xmission.com) Can anyone tell me why every message I send to the group shows up with a lot of weird header information added to it. I'm assuming everyone sees it, and not just me. This doesn't seem to happen on any other list, and it only started happening a short time ago on this list. I would like to find out what's causing the extra material so I can try to eliminate it. Thanks for any help. Bill Day M-15 363, "Gee Whiz!"

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research
by jerry 19 May '09

19 May '09

Thanks again for your comments; they are still coming in and keep it up! I'm leaving this afternoon for an annual canoe camping/fishing in a wilderness are in the Sierras, and when I get back I'll review them and come up with some kind of concensus and post it. Looks like we are prejudiced in the way of wrinkles, as I suspected. For my next column for SCA I'm working on an artical on small boat interiors, which ties in with all this. jerry

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Re: M_Boats: research
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 19 May '09

19 May '09

Hi Howard, Where would you locate the second mast on a Cat Ketch assuming a 16' boat? sal In a message dated 5/19/2009 6:03:14 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, haudsley(a)tranquility.net writes: On Graham's larger boats, he offsets the CB to port a foot or so, where it forms one side of the port berth or galley, opening the cabin up a bit. Seems to make no difference at all in performance, but those are deep, high aspect boards. The 17 to 20 foot Core Sound boats Charlie built do not have ballast, and very little wetted area and with a little wind will plane. Rumor has it they don't point as well as a sloop, but when you are doing 8 knots when everyone else is doing 4, you can afford to tack a few times. Off the wind, they run away from everyone. And the cat ketch is self tending, so you can slalom your way down the course without grinding on the winches (my hands are still sore from short tacking 3 miles up a course over the weekend). I've not sailed on one either, but I may get the chance in a couple weeks. A guy who built one of his 17 foot cabin boats is going to be on Kentucky Lake and I'm trying to arrange a way to spend a day with him. If there is room, skip the porta potti and go with a "throne"........an Airhead toilet. http://www.airheadtoilet.com/ Someday I may work up enough nerve to find out if a small bucket with a gallon or so of peat moss, with a locking lid, would work as well. Howard On May 18, 2009, at 6:02 PM, <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> wrote: > One favorite concept of mine is a portapot that slides out from under > the > cockpit. > > In the M17, I think it would work well except for the c/b. If only > there > were another way to run the c/b line so that its tube didn't fill that > area. > It might be nice if the tube doubled as the mast support under the > v-berth > (and a stub higher if needed for w/l reasons). Of course, the > geometry is > off for that but perhaps there is some inventive solution. > > Then, the battery could be on centerline just fwd of the compression > post > and there could be more accessible storage compartments built into the > aft > end of the v-berth. > > The previous post mentioning the benefits of a cat ketch rig sure > seems to > have merit too... > > Charlie Jones, on the TSBB board, has built at least a couple of Graham > B_____'s cat ketches and they do seem to do well. I've never sailed > that > rig. > > > Tod Mills > M17 #408, 1987 galley model > BuscaBrisas > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats- >> bounces+htmills=zoominternet.net(a)mailman.xmission.com >> [mailto:montgomery_boats- >> bounces+htmills=zoominternet.net(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >> jerry >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:17 PM >> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >> Subject: M_Boats: research >> >> Thanks again for your comments; they are still coming in and keep it >> up! I'm leaving this afternoon for an annual canoe camping/fishing in >> a wilderness are in the Sierras, and when I get back I'll review them >> and come up with some kind of concensus and post it. Looks like we >> are >> prejudiced in the way of wrinkles, as I suspected. >> >> For my next column for SCA I'm working on an artical on small boat >> interiors, which ties in with all this. >> >> jerry >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.32/2117 - Release Date: >> 05/18/09 06:28:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51609NO62)

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