May 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: market research
by eisenee＠aol.com 15 May '09

15 May '09

Hi All I have enjoyed reading the comments on the market research and it looks like the magarity prefer the traditional salty look. Well designed boats can look salty without lapstrake hulls, Flika and Blackwatch 18 to mention 2 . But aluminum hatch sliders and chromed handrails, give me a BREAK, you can get a McGregor and have all that and pull skiers too. I think Jerrys client was looking for a 16 footer. How about an open 16 ft schooner or yawl with lapstrake, and lots of teak and a modern keel, rudder with ballast for self righting. I dont know how many you could sell but the ones that do get out there would be the envy of the marina. Eldor M17 Motu iti **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823239x1201398650/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51509NO62)

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Re: M_Boats: market research
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 15 May '09

15 May '09

I agree that the lapstrake would be best. It really is a "trademark" of Montgomery boats, It does offer some advantages and a "touch of class". The only downside being higher costs that I believe Montgomery owners would unerstand. With recent discussion on water inside the boat. I agree with the earlier poster that the cockpit sole could be above the waterline, with straight scuppers to the stern. I have this arrangement on my current boat and it works well. Buckets of water are drained in seconds. No valves or gates. The downside is a higher boom or dodging. I like the idea of taking advantage of the current innovative wave in using electric power. Perhaps a hybrid arrangement? Batteries as part of the ballast? Water ballasts were mentioned. Two small tanks on either side of the keel. Filled and pumped like Eric Taberly's design (Pen Duick V, I believe). Used for long windward tacks filled on the windward side, emptied on long runs. Well, I guess that might be a bit much for a 16' boat? But partial water ballast does offer the advantage of lighter trailer weight. Interior sitting headroom is nice. Small clear domes in the right places? A simple easy to set up boom tent that's designed into the boat? Good cabin and tent ventilation. Can you create a foot-well to make the cockpit bench longer or have the cabin assymetrical? I think all small craft sailors are single-handers whether alone of not. The design could have this in mind. sal In a message dated 5/13/2009 1:26:04 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org writes: Something more pleasant! I've been in a dialog with a builder to design a "Montgomery style" boat; probably 16', and I'd like to ask you for some opinions and comments. Lapstrake: How do you think the average buyer, looking for a boat in this size range, would look at a lapstrake hull as opposed to a smooth hull? You and I are probably prejudiced so we don't count. People can see that a lapstrake hull is dryer (but not much, really) and they can see that it's stiffer- again, not much. A lapstrake hull is a bit heavier but weight in a hull doesn't really slow the boat down enough to matter even to me. There is a cost factor, partly because of taking longer to lay up, a little more material, and because it takes a bit better molder, but not much, and really, the deck has more man hours in it than a hull so cost is a small factor. I don;'t believe there is a performance factor of any import. Maybe I'm saying too much; and the simple question is: which would sell best to the average buyer? I'm thinking the interior would be a roomier version of the 15, with a little more storage, and more comfortable sitting headroom. Also, the 15 cockpit is about 5.5' long, and when i'd take a 15 cruising I'd cleat the drop hatches to bridge the cockpit benches and sleep at a diagonal. This worked fine for me but would not work for most couples, especially if they fight a lot. The 17 cockpit, being over 6', was much better for sleeping in the cockpit. Here's the question : where would you like to see the extra foot of length- in the cockpit or the interior, or what combination of both? Any other comments would be welcome. My ex-wife used to call me a know-it-all but we all know I'm not! I think these subjects would be good for the list, but if you don't like speaking to a crowd feel free to email me directly at jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org. jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823239x1201398650/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51509NO62)

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Re: M_Boats: water in the cockpit
by W David Scobie 15 May '09

15 May '09

i've not had the water in the cockpit yet on SWEET PEA. i now it is just a matter of time. i like the 'idea' of ball valves ... but don't like the thought of having to remember to open the valves if the boat is pooped/swamped. in moments of stress one can forget basic things ... this is why a GREAT number of people can't use a fire extinguisher as they panic and forget to remove the safety pin - and bend the handles closed!! the M15, SCRED in my case, will siphon water in some circumstances up the centerboard pendent hole allowing water to pool on the low side when beating to the wind. i've taken to wearing boating sandals and waterproof socks. on cold days i put on a good pair of warm socks under the waterproof socks. feet say dry, warm and happy. the socks come from REI and are GORE-TEX. this waterproof socks & boots combo is my action plan for sailing SWEET PEA. for bad weather i just wear my foul weather gear and tall boots. again, warm socks keep my feet happy. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (FOR SALE, http://www.freewebs.com/15-named-scred --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: Hi gang, Every boat has a distinctive personality (one reason I love them), and I am discovering my 17 bit by bit. I got in a big blow yesterday, and enough water backed into the cockpit to give me cold feet had the water not been warm. The drain hoses have devices that might be one-way valves half way through the aft locker, and I am wondering if other owners have found that these keep all the water out. If so, I will have to take the things apart and find the problem. A final, if not as elegant (or safe) a solution, would be to use expanding rubber plugs in the cockpit openings, but I cannot find one of the proper size in my catalogs. Has anyone found a source? A big old soft rubber cork would probably work, but I am afraid a surge might pop one out. Another thing I noticed was a bit of water around the fuel tank in the aft locker. I assume a following wave took a whack high on the transom and shoved water past the fuel hose; has anyone experienced this and come up with an elegant solution? I know this subject was brought up awhile back, but I don't have the emails and I was not focused on the subject at the time. Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla

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Market Research
by John and DesAnne Hippe 15 May '09

15 May '09

One more "two cents worth"... As for lapstrake vs. smooth hull, I would opt for lapstrake everytime -- even after spending considerable time removing old bottom paint and preparing for new bottom paint. The looks of the lapstrake hull set the Montgomery apart from all the other look-alikes out there. For me, I would opt for more room in the cabin -- especially if it gave me sitting room. I spend 1 to 2 weeks at a time cruising in my M-15 and would really like to be able to sit upright in the cabin. I cruise in northern waters where mosquitos make sitting in the cockpit after dusk an impossiblity -- and I don't want to have the added hassle of setting up a boom tent each night. Since I do a lot of day sailing and keep my M-15 on a trailer, keeping the rigging simple is a major consideration. It typically takes me about 30 minutes to rig and launch. John Hippe M-15 Jester

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Re: M_Boats: socks and sandals
by W David Scobie 15 May '09

15 May '09

it seems socks and sandals are a pacific northwest thing. i got the same 'comments' from about my dress when i worked in the midwest. see - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z59fQ12OR0A dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (FOR SALE, http://www.freewebs.com/15-named-scred) --- On Fri, 5/15/09, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: Socks and sandals?!?!? Isn't that a COLREGS violation? Jim M-17 "Spirit" On May 14, 2009, at 5:56 PM, W David Scobie wrote: > > the M15, SCRED in my case, will siphon water in some circumstances up the centerboard pendent hole allowing water to pool on the low side when beating to the wind. i've taken to wearing boating sandals and waterproof socks. on cold days i put on a good pair of warm socks under the waterproof socks. feet say dry, warm and happy. the socks come from REI and are GORE-TEX. > > this waterproof socks & boots combo is my action plan for sailing SWEET PEA. > > > > dave scobie > M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) > M15 #288 - SCRED (FOR SALE, http://www.freewebs.com/15-named-scred

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Re: M_Boats: market research - Mboats at anchor sound
by W David Scobie 14 May '09

14 May '09

i love the sound of a boat at anchor. the background noise makes me sleep like a baby. yes, some find this sound disturbing. i do not! this not to say some noises don't disturb: halyards against the mast, thump of a buoy against the hull, and a family allowing their children to run up-and-down a dock at midnight laughing and yelling. now ... i was able to sleep in this 'rock and roll' situation - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkMzAzNWjg maybe i'm a bit 'different' ;-) dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (FOR SALE, http://www.freewebs.com/15-named-scred --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: I agree totally on the "noisy" lapstrakes. When I reached the trades on a Nor'Sea trip to Hawaii, the big following waves rushing under the hull were the most relaxing noise imaginable. My wife heard them over my Sat phone and thought I was going over Niagara in a barrel. Tom Jenkins

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Re: M_Boats: water in the cockpit
by W David Scobie 14 May '09

14 May '09

randy (and others 'listening'): yes, two drain holes from cockpit in the rear locker; and then two thru-hull drains below the waterline. SWEET PEA's through-hull pipes (the galley sink and the cockpit drains) have been replaced (cockpit 10 to5 yrs ago; galley sink 4-5 yrs ago) and are non-AL. SWEET PEA only has one transom hole (to port). there is not a second. i wish there was a second on the starboard side as that is where her engine mount is located and where i'll need to create a hole when i convert the engine (an suziki 4HP) to an external fuel tank. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (FOR SALE, http://www.freewebs.com/15-named-scred --- On Thu, 5/14/09, RKGraves <RKGraves(a)cite.nic.edu> wrote: David, On the earlier 17's, like SWEET PEA, your likely to have a second set of cockpit drains below the waterline. I'm guessing your 17 is similar to our 1988 model. If so, you'll see two below the waterline drains exiting out the front of the stern locker. There are large diameter hoses below the cockpit floor that connect these drains to two molded AL tubes on each side of the stern below the waterline. You may have heard owners talking about checking the integrity of these hoses and connections as a leak could sink you boat. Also on the 1981 to 1994'ish model 17's there are the two holes exiting out the transom. The holes in the transom would only be used if sufficient water came onboard as to not drain quickly out the two below the waterline drains. On models before ours there is a single below the water line drain in the aft end of the cockpit. Randy G ________________________________________ From: W David Scobie [wdscobie(a)yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:56 PM i've not had the water in the cockpit yet on SWEET PEA. i now it is just a matter of time. i like the 'idea' of ball valves ... but don't like the thought of having to remember to open the valves if the boat is pooped/swamped. in moments of stress one can forget basic things ... this is why a GREAT number of people can't use a fire extinguisher as they panic and forget to remove the safety pin - and bend the handles closed!! the M15, SCRED in my case, will siphon water in some circumstances up the centerboard pendent hole allowing water to pool on the low side when beating to the wind. i've taken to wearing boating sandals and waterproof socks. on cold days i put on a good pair of warm socks under the waterproof socks. feet say dry, warm and happy. the socks come from REI and are GORE-TEX. this waterproof socks & boots combo is my action plan for sailing SWEET PEA. for bad weather i just wear my foul weather gear and tall boots. again, warm socks keep my feet happy. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (FOR SALE, http://www.freewebs.com/15-named-scred

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market research
by Rick Langer 14 May '09

14 May '09

I feel the M15 is near perfect for single-handed cruising and for two day sailing. It's ease of towing, launching and rigging are key to getting a lot of use. Sailing is equally easy to the single-handler as long as all lines are led to the cockpit. As far as noisy lapstrake goes, I disagree. I love that sound and along with a little rocking it never fails to put me to sleep almost immediately. I'm currently trying to buff my hull and agree the lapstrakes make it difficult, but there are a few advantages to having laps. I built a shelf on the inside of the port cockpit coaming which is ideal for storing long things like boat hook, whisker pole, paddles and fishing poles. This shelf has a few screws holding it to the coaming just above the seat and sets on the bottom of the first lap below the sheer. I also built a removable bulkhead aft of the battery (under v-berth) which fits with friction because it's molded to the laps. Some changes that I'd like to make to the M15 are; * Forward hatch for ventilation. * Straight main hatch drop boards. * Clear bridge deck of mainsheet tackle so the area is free to act as a seat or table while cooking. *Increased sitting headroom. On this issue of headroom I'd vote for the extra foot going to the cabin. Maybe opposing seats could be arranged while still keeping that excellent v-berth. A design I like for interior accommodations is the No Frills 15. Maybe you've already seen it. The raised deck adds a lot of interior space. Rick

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market research
by Thebaldyone2＠aol.com 14 May '09

14 May '09

>From a wan-a-be with experience on other peoples boats. A potty for the ladies, with some privacy and no head knocking. A place to sit for my beer and pretzels, in the shade of the cabin with a buddy. A place to crash for my nap, no compression post. A large comfortable cockpit where I do not have someone's elbow in my ear. I like end boom sheeting, no knee knocking in the cockpit. Less bright work, slotted aluminum toe rails. Trailerable. Basically a bigger M-17, because looking good is worth 12 points of 10. In my mind something in the overall size of the Catalina 18, with a longer waterline, and no wing to get stuck in the mud of San Pablo bay, retractable board like the M-17. The original looks good to me, but a little more living room added to the reported sailing properties, improved with a longer waterline would be great to me. Thoughts here are free, cannot afford the two cents. Fair winds and calm seas, Ken Dado **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=htt…)

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Re: M_Boats: market research
by JDavies104＠aol.com 14 May '09

14 May '09

Tod, I had problems with a little water accumulating in the bilge under the v-berth until I recalked where the electical wires go through the cabin roof under the mast. Water was seeping down inside the compression post into the bilge next to the battery box. Now it's bone dry. Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlc…)

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