April 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Blown sails?
by Conbert H Benneck 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Dan, A sail is designed, and the sailmaker builds it in an airfoil shape. If the sail is used in too strong winds, has seen too much sunshine, or just gets old, it begins to loose the original design shape. The use in too strong winds and thereby loosing it's shape, back in the days of canvas sails, is where the expression a "blown" sail comes from. When is a sail no longer useful? Ah, that opens a can of worms. If you are a racer, then you need new sails, with the latest and greatest sailmaking technology every year if you expect to compete at the top levels of competition. If you cruise: carefully flake your sails after use; keep them clean and free of salt crystals (abrasion); use a sail cover, your sails can last for a long, long time. I still was using my original sails on my Tripp-Lentsch 29 when I sold it after 26 years of use - and the sails were in very good shape. I was still capable of passing lots of more modern boats with new sails, tall rigs, and fin keels and watch them slowly recede in the distance behind me. So were my sails old? Yes. Were they still useable? Yes Did they still have a good shape? Yes. So, I guess the final answer to your question is, do your sails still have a good shape? Is the major curvature of the main, in the forward 1/3 of the sail area? .....or has it wandered aft and is now at the mid-point of the main? If the sail is really shot, then the major curvature will be aft of the middle. Then it's time to get a new one; unless you are just going day sailing or lolly-gagging about. Then does it really matter? The boat moves. You enjoy what you are doing. If you throw money at the sails, will a quarter of a knot speed difference really mean that much to you? That's the decision you have to make! Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Blown sails?
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Blown sails are basically ones that are stretched out of shape and lose their designed aerodynamic flows. You may not be able to see this but yanking on new ones will make a big improvement over blown ones...in my experience the upwind pointing performance is where I saw the big difference.

1 0

Re: M_Boats: M15 Centerboard/Keel Renovation
by stevemc35＠attbi.com 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Thanks John, I'll look forward to the photos and the commentary. In the meantime, if anyone knows what that joint between the inside cb trunk wall and the outer hull is supposed to be made of, or how it should be maintained, I'd appreciate hearing from them. I'm hoping to get this job out of the way in the next week or so. Steve > In the process of refitting "Chimpanzee" the M-15, I removed and refurbished > the centerboard and did a good bit of work on the keel fin itself, inside > and out. I took lots of digital photos and when I get a chance I'll send > the whole series over to Doug King along with commentary. >

1 0

M15 Centerboard/Keel Renovation
by stevemc35＠attbi.com 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Has anyone had a good look at their centerbord slot or knows how it's constructed? Maybe this is a question for Bob or Jerry: My question regards the joint just inside the lip of the centerboard slot, where the inside wall of the trunk meets the outer hull: of what does this joint consist? Does it ever require any maintenance? On my 1981 M15, there appears to be a joint consisting of some kind of resilient caulk, rather than fiberglass or epoxy, which is what I suppose I expected? Is this normal? I haven't found anything in the archives that refers specifically to this joint, but if it is not fiberglassed then should it not require maintenance from time to time? I admit I have no evidence of trouble there -- unless the existence of caulk there is itself evidence of a previous repair. But as long as I have the boat up on stands, and the centerboard out, it seems like a good time to make sure everthing down there is hunky-dory. -- Steve McClellan 1981 M15 #152 Evanston, Illiois stevemc35(a)attbi.com

2 1

Re: M_Boats: boat cradle
by stevemc35＠attbi.com 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Hey Cherri-- I am in the process of renovating my centerboard and keel stub right at the moment, and also wanted to replace my trailer's bunk boards, all of which required me to get my boat off of the trailer and on to something else. What I did was to build two very sturdy "sawhorse" type stands. (when I say very sturdy, I mean I used landscape timbers and 4x4s braced diagonally with 2x4s -- I realize this MAY have been over-engineered, but I really don't want the boat falling on me when I'm underneath it) I also reinforced one of the ceiling joists in my little one-car garage with 2 2x8s sistered in with the regular 2x4 joist. wedging one of the stands underneath the stern of the boat, just behind the keel stub, I then lifted the front of the boat with cable jacks hanging from the reinforced ceiling joist, and a very heavy-duty nylon webbing strap underneath the hull just in front of the keel. When it was elevated enough, I pulled the trailer out and put the other stand in. I forgot to mention that I had placed 2 12-ft 2x4s lengthwise across both stands, about a foot and a half from the centerline of the boat. It is these 2x4s that the boat hull actually rests on. They have bowed a bit to conform to the contour of the hull. Needless to say, these need to be inside the strap as the boat is lifted before the second stand is put in. All in all, pretty simple. The most time consuming thing was the time it took to build the "sawhorses" -- and probably the hardest for me was sistering in the 2x8s in the celing. But neither of these will need to be done again, so next time I need to lift it, it should go pretty quickly. Good luck! > I am wondering if anyone has ever built a boat cradle for an M-15 to do > work on the hull and , if so, what the specs were on it. I need to do > bottom paint and would rather not have to pay a marina to lift it. > > Cherri > M-15 #322 Cherri's Jubilee > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

1 0

Re: M-17 vane self steering
by Bkmdanocaribbean＠aol.com 07 Apr '02

07 Apr '02

Dear Todd, I am presently making some extensive modifications to my M -17, which include a fee standing carbon fibre mast and a Chinese lug rig with corresponding core-cell reinforcing to the hull. At the moment I am looking at some drawings made by Tom Mac Naughton for his Farthing design. I'm also open to anyone else's vane steering system, as this boat will be be cruised extensively with another microcruiser from Sweden. If you would like to share any ideas considering your vane steering design, it would be welcomed. I also have a friend who is a certified MIG - TIG welder who is actually an artist when it comes to fabrication. Please let me know what you think. Many Thanks, DanBolbrock M-17,#220 Montpetit

1 0

M15 Centerboard Pivot Question
by Steve McClellan (at Home) 06 Apr '02

06 Apr '02

Thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions or sympathy about my centerboard problem. The prize for most creative solution definitely goes to Dale -- Dale, it sounds like you really earned it! I almost split my sides trying to visualize three fat farmboys hanging off of a trailer, pinned to the bottom of a boat being suspended in the air by tractors. Well anyway, I have an update: I went back to the boat again, and instead of curses, tried sweet-talking it (along with a little gentle prying on the far aft edge/tip of the centerboard. It came out an inch or two at first, then all they way. Down also came a quantity of substance that appeared to be composted leaves and bugs (or some such brown awful looking crap). Now, I can raise and lower the board all day, within an inch of full retracted position, but if I retract it that LAST INCH (which I would need to do to put it on the trailer) it gets stuck, won't come down without prying again. I'd like to really clean out the centerboard slot, which would probably be best done without the board there, So I'm thinking of just removing it. On my M15, there is just what appears to be a standard galvanized or stainless, maybe 1/2 inch carriage bolt through the keel which the board pivots on. On the port side, there is just the bolt-end sticking out, with a nut on it. I'm wondering -- is that what most people have for a pivot pin? Or was mine replaced at one time, perhaps persuant to some damage? Seems to me I remember someone mentioning once that their pivot pin was epoxied in, and completely flush with the keel on both sides. Just wondering how most people's is. I'm just planning to remove the pin and drop the board out (gently of course, with due regard for it's weight). I'm not expecting any surprises. Should I? For you all who have done this, am I forgetting something? I have to say -- the talk recently about casting a bronze centerboard (this was for the M17 I believe) sounds pretty attractive. If it's true that older M15 boards have a tendency to swell up and become non functional, I would think there might be a market for a bronze replacement. I know I'd consider it. It would be quite an upgrade, adding even more weight where it really counts, impervious to water, and foil-shaped better than what you'd get with plate steel, say. It's a beautiful sunny day, with highs in the low 40s in Chicago today, blowing 10 knots from SSE -- Lake Michigan water temperature around 36 degrees. Sailing season is right around the corner! -- Steve McClellan M15 #152 Evanston, Illinois

4 3

Re: M_Boats: Centerboard Won't Drop
by Conbert H Benneck 06 Apr '02

06 Apr '02

Steve, I presume that you have physical interference between the C/B and the slot walls. Mud? Barnacles? Debris of some kind? Knowing the clearance I have in my slot, I be prone to taking a carpenter's hand saw and tring to remove the impediment. There should be enough clearance so that you aren't cutting fiberglass - board or slot - just the barnacles or debris holding it in place. That would be an approach I'd try. With the fiberglass C/B you don't have the rust expansion problem that the M17er seem to have. So, if the board isn't swelling; and the slot isn't contracting; then clearance remains the same except for gunk, or whatever is holding it from dropping down. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

2 1

Re: M_Boats: M15 Centerboard Pivot Question
by Randy Watkins 06 Apr '02

06 Apr '02

Steve, Glad you had a successful c/b operation. The pivot pin on my c/b board ( 1982 model ) is flush and glassed over. I think there a description on how to remove a M15 board in the archives. Regards, Randy Watkins M15#194 <<< stevemc35(a)attbi.com 4/ 6 8:11a >>> Thanks to everyone who replied with suggestions or sympathy about my centerboard problem. The prize for most creative solution definitely goes to Dale -- Dale, it sounds like you really earned it! I almost split my sides trying to visualize three fat farmboys hanging off of a trailer, pinned to the bottom of a boat being suspended in the air by tractors. Well anyway, I have an update: I went back to the boat again, and instead of curses, tried sweet-talking it (along with a little gentle prying on the far aft edge/tip of the centerboard. It came out an inch or two at first, then all they way. Down also came a quantity of substance that appeared to be composted leaves and bugs (or some such brown awful looking crap). Now, I can raise and lower the board all day, within an inch of full retracted position, but if I retract it that LAST INCH (which I would need to do to put it on the trailer) it gets stuck, won't come down without prying again. I'd like to really clean out the centerboard slot, which would probably be best done without the board there, So I'm thinking of just removing it. On my M15, there is just what appears to be a standard galvanized or stainless, maybe 1/2 inch carriage bolt through the keel which the board pivots on. On the port side, there is just the bolt-end sticking out, with a nut on it. I'm wondering -- is that what most people have for a pivot pin? Or was mine replaced at one time, perhaps persuant to some damage? Seems to me I remember someone mentioning once that their pivot pin was epoxied in, and completely flush with the keel on both sides. Just wondering how most people's is. I'm just planning to remove the pin and drop the board out (gently of course, with due regard for it's weight). I'm not expecting any surprises. Should I? For you all who have done this, am I forgetting something? I have to say -- the talk recently about casting a bronze centerboard (this was for the M17 I believe) sounds pretty attractive. If it's true that older M15 boards have a tendency to swell up and become non functional, I would think there might be a market for a bronze replacement. I know I'd consider it. It would be quite an upgrade, adding even more weight where it really counts, impervious to water, and foil-shaped better than what you'd get with plate steel, say. It's a beautiful sunny day, with highs in the low 40s in Chicago today, blowing 10 knots from SSE -- Lake Michigan water temperature around 36 degrees. Sailing season is right around the corner! -- Steve McClellan M15 #152 Evanston, Illinois

1 0

Re: M_Boats: hoisting sail, vane
by daideo＠webtv.net 06 Apr '02

06 Apr '02

Thanks Tod, I wasn`t aware of the [already] foiled rudder on your boats. The on going debate about `foiled` rudders goes on in the Com-pac site. The revisions are reaching near epic proportions. Some very good ideas are coming out of this, all looing at better performance. From a slip-on form to really an MIT thing, `spacey`... It`s very interesting. A lot of guys are putting a lot of thought into this subject. ~["I wonder if the montgomery rudder would fit ? hmmmmm...]~ Well, thanks again. [hope to] See you on the water . Have a great sailing season. Vicki & Terry " Do infants enjoy infancy, as much as adults enjoy adultery"? `Carlin`

1 0