April 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #162 - 7 msgs
by Derfsails＠aol.com 09 Apr '02

09 Apr '02

Hi: I just returned from the Montgomery factory in Ontario, CA and talked with the new owner Bob Eeg and Jerry Montgomery. Then placed an order for a new M23. The plant is small there were two Nor'seas being built and about five each of M15 & 17's plus a M23 in a mold. The shop was very full with that work load. They also have some outside space for storage etc. There were only a few workers on site. I checked the BBB they didn't have a current address or any negative reports. The quality of the boats being put together looked very good. I don't have any hard evidence one way or the other. They do have some other ties with Nor'sea purchasing material and parts, I think to get discounts on larger purchasing power. I will have hard evidence in about 90 days. I was pleased that they accept payment on a percentage of completion plan which helps reduce everyone's risk. Fred (aka: derf sails(a)aol.com)

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considering the M17...request for info
by Jeffco923＠aol.com 09 Apr '02

09 Apr '02

Hi, I'm glad to see that there is an active group of Montgomery owners here. We have been searching for the perfect(for us) boat for sometime. The M-17 meets most of our criteria and we're getting very close to placing an order when I stumbled on to a bunch of "stuff" on the net that suggested that the builder had some financial and credibility issues. If any of you have recent experience with the builder and can give me some info I would appreciate it. Also, I'm interested in knowing how easy(or difficult) it is for one person to raise the mast on the 17. I live in Portland Or. and will be using the boat on lakes, rivers and on Puget Sound. If there are any active Montgomery sailers in the Portland area I would love to hear from you. Thanks

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New Montgomery owner
by wayne yeargain 09 Apr '02

09 Apr '02

Hello All: New Montgomery owner here, recently sold my 23 Hunter and picked up a Montgomery 17. I was looking for a smaller trailerable & the M boat fit the criteria well. I'd add that most of the input for my decision came from the high level of satisfaction from other Montgomery owners demonstrated on this site. Looking foward to many happy sails Wayne Yeargain M17 #204 "Intrepid"

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RE: M_Boats: Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #172 - 3 msgs
by Shawn Boles 09 Apr '02

09 Apr '02

Sounds like a variation on 'Blondie' Hasler's rig on 'Jester' (see Single-Handed Sailing by Richard Henderson) . Also, here is a link to the differing types of junk rigs: http://www.sailsail.com/sailing-tips/tip4.asp?ID=70 <http://www.sailsail.com/sailing-tips/tip4.asp?ID=70> cheers- Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: Bkmdanocaribbean(a)aol.com [mailto:Bkmdanocaribbean@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:37 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #172 - 3 msgs Dear Larry, Thanks for your interest in my M-17 modifications.Most of it is in the advanced planning stages and is predicated mainly on securing reasonable pricing on the carbon fibre componants that comprise the rather unorthodox rig. My reasons for making these changes are to radically reduce the effort to sail the boat and to have infinate control of the sail area at all times. Most ot these ideas come from a master micro cruiser sailor that has crossed the pond many times in boats smaller than mine. In a couple of weeks I'll be able to share alot more information. Dan #220

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Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #172 - 3 msgs
by Bkmdanocaribbean＠aol.com 09 Apr '02

09 Apr '02

Dear Larry, Thanks for your interest in my M-17 modifications.Most of it is in the advanced planning stages and is predicated mainly on securing reasonable pricing on the carbon fibre componants that comprise the rather unorthodox rig. My reasons for making these changes are to radically reduce the effort to sail the boat and to have infinate control of the sail area at all times. Most ot these ideas come from a master micro cruiser sailor that has crossed the pond many times in boats smaller than mine. In a couple of weeks I'll be able to share alot more information. Dan #220

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Re: M_Boats: Re: M-17 vane self steering
by Larry Yake 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Dan, If you don't mind sharing with the list, could you go into more detail on the modifications you're making on your M17 and the reasons for the changes? Fixing up our boats is the favorite topic here and I'm sure others would be interested in your plans. Both for the boat and the cruises you have planned. Thanks, Larry Yake M17, #200 Tullamore On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:28:24 EDT Bkmdanocaribbean(a)aol.com writes: Dear Todd, I am presently making some extensive modifications to my M -17, which include a fee standing carbon fibre mast and a Chinese lug rig with corresponding core-cell reinforcing to the hull. At the moment I am looking at some drawings made by Tom Mac Naughton for his Farthing design. I'm also open to anyone else's vane steering system, as this boat will be be cruised extensively with another microcruiser from Sweden. If you would like to share any ideas considering your vane steering design, it would be welcomed. I also have a friend who is a certified MIG - TIG welder who is actually an artist when it comes to fabrication. Please let me know what you think. Many Thanks, DanBolbrock M-17,#220 Montpetit

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Re: M_Boats: Great Lakes water levels
by Sandyal55＠aol.com 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

In a message dated 04/08/2002 2:36:48 PM !!!First Boot!!!, stevemc35(a)attbi.com writes: > Will the Great Lakes water levels keep dropping forever? > They are already close to two feet below average and a > foot below chart datum. > Lake Pleasant near Phoenix goes up and down 100 ft each year. The launching ramp is very long in the fall, before Colorado River water is pumped into it. Too bad your ramps aren't designed for this problem. Sandy

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Texas Sailing opportunities April-June
by Randy Watkins 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

( if you received this earlier- I apologize, trouble with email today ) Hello fellow sailors, Here are a few Texas sailing opportunities that are coming up. If you're interested feel free to contact me for more information or just show up ready to sail. April 13, "Messabout" at Lake Conroe, Tx info-Shorty http://www.shortypen.com/boats/maib2002/ April 20/21 Group sail- Canyon Lake, Tx Directions: Located on the south side of the lake in Cranes Mill park. Take FM 2673west from Startzville until it turns into Cranes Mill Road. Follow road into the park. Ramp is on the west bank of the park. Two-lane concrete ramp with a maximum parking capacity of 25 Fee required Open all year Operated by the US Army Corps of Engineers (830) 964-3341 We had a group sail at this location last year. We launched the boats at the ramp which is close to the marina and slept aboard our boats. The marina has a nice club house and showers. The marina does ask for your insurance information when you check in. http://www.clmarina.com/ May 5- Lake Conroe, Tx Brazos Sailing Club- a couple of our members have boats and homes there and we're having a meeting / dinner / sailing. info- Randy Watkins May 19-24-Kemah, Tx Galveston Bay & Clear Lake Texas I'll have my boat in the water for a week at Seabrook Shipyard Marina. I'll be working days 19-23 (M-Th) sailing in the evenings and sailing all day Fri. 24. This is a great place to visit if you haven't been here before. You may consider making a vacation stop of this area. The marina does ask for your insurance information when you check in. Boat U.S. members also receive a discount. http://www.seabrook-shipyard.com/ June 9-14 ? tentative Galveston, Texas- I'll be staying at a campground on Offats Bayou near Moody Gardens. They have a ramp, campsites, showers and are close to the beach and restaurants. If you are not familiar with this area there are many good places to sail. Galveston Bay is close by and you can also venture offshore for the day. A couple of sailors have expressed an interest in meeting there so company is welcome. Bayou Shores RV Park 6310 Avenue P 1/2 Galveston, TX 77551-1438 http://www.galveston-online.com/camping/index.html take care Randy Watkins M15#194 College Station, Tx http://www.geocities.com/texpotters http://msog.org/

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Re: M_Boats: M15 Centerboard/Keel Renovation
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

In a message dated 4/8/02 8:04:04 AM, stevemc35(a)attbi.com writes: << Has anyone had a good look at their centerbord slot or knows how it's constructed? Maybe this is a question for Bob or Jerry: My question regards the joint just inside the lip of the centerboard slot, where the inside wall of the trunk meets the outer hull: of what does this joint consist? Does it ever require any maintenance? On my 1981 M15, there appears to be a joint consisting of some kind of resilient caulk, rather than fiberglass or epoxy, which is what I suppose I expected? Is this normal? I haven't found anything in the archives that refers specifically to this joint, but if it is not fiberglassed then should it not require maintenance from time to time? I admit I have no evidence of trouble there -- unless the existence of caulk there is itself evidence of a previous repair. But as long as I have the boat up on stands, and the centerboard out, it seems like a good time to make sure everthing down there is hunky-dory. -- Steve McClellan 1981 M15 #152 >> Hi Steve, I spent the last hour on Keith's web page looking at the *old* archives (pre 2001), and finally found my old post from 1999 regarding this condition. I am including it below. If your opening is similar to that of my description below, you might want to undertake the process I describe. Given that the products I mention were purchased in 1998, you might want to check with Interlux to see if anything has changed or been renamed. One thing that may not be clear from this early post (I sent some follow-up posts) is that my primary reason for taking on this work was to prevent water incursion at the exposed laminate edges of the hull opening. I was not having any problem with the centerboard or trunk. Let me know if you have any further questions. Scott Grometer M15 #478, "bebe" Original posting, 1999: From: Wilsometer(a)aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Center Board Trunk Date: 17 May 1999 03:59:28 EDT In a message dated 5/17/99 4:40:36 AM, you wrote: <<While laying under my M-15 today (note - the boat is in the driveway on the trailer) I noticed there is a gap between the centerboard trunk liner and the outer shell of the fixed part of the keel. Some sections around this perimeter appear to have a filler sealing the joint. I assume the joint should be completely filled in. Has anyone else noticed this condition on thier boat? Is resealing with epoxy a dirveway type of repair or a "haul out'? It looks like I could get to most of it with a putty knife, but wonder how long it would last without being properly prepared. Is this serious problem and should I repair it before Dream Catcher goes in the water this year? Any help will be much appreciated. Don Haas, M15-248>> Don, Virtually all M15's I looked at had this condition to some degree--some a lot worse than others. One M15 I looked at had started to delaminate at the hull opening. In addition to delamination, This same boat also had so many bottom blisters as to make me wonder whether the boat was salvageable. My boat, on the other hand, was essentially brand new (in the water maybe one or two times for demo sails before being shrink-wrapped for storage). In spite of this, the centerboard opening was irregular in shape and had fiberglass "hairs" extending from the rough exposed laminate. The boat did not leak, so I guess it had filler where needed, but I was uneasy about the whole situation. I decided to get a second opinion from a friend who is a marine surveyor. He was not comfortable with the exposed fiberglass laminate, and was especially disturbed by the exposed fiberglass "hairs", which, he suggested, would have the effect of wicking water into the laminate. He suggested that If I merely daysailed the boat occasionally, and trailered it some distance so that the laminate might dry, that I might not have any problem. When I told him of my plans to leave the boat in the water for three or so weeks at a time while cruising, he said I had little choice but to repair the joint and close the bare laminate. I decided to undertake the work myself. I asked the surveyor for his recommendation, and then got specific product information from Interlux before proceeding. What sounded like a simple process ended up being a messy and time consuming affair. Still, I am glad I did it myself. I suspect that no yard would have taken the same care, or if they did, it would have cost a fortune. I decided to go ahead and do a full barrier coat on the keel while I was at it. It was my original intention to do a full barrier coat on the entire bottom (to the waterline), but I decided to see how the keel came out first. In retrospect, I would have liked to have pulled and barrier coated the centerboard as well as the entire inside of the trunk. As it was, however, it took nearly a week to sand, fill, fair, and get seven barrier coats on the keel and opening. The finished product was worth the work. The opening in the hull is now perfectly shaped and flush to that of the centerboard liner, and I have no concern that the hull will ever delaminate at this junction. While not exhaustive, I will outline the general steps taken below: 1) I jacked up the boat while still on the trailer by placing a floor jack under the ballasted section of the keel. By alternating fore and aft, I was able to slip the old bias-ply trailer tires (the only good use for them in my opinion--I switched to radials) between the hull and trailer bunk boards until the boat was fully supported some 6" higher than the normal trailering height. 2) I masked the hull leaving the keel exposed (Use 3m blue "long mask"). 3) I solvent washed (Interlux #202 Fiberglass Solvent Wash) the entire keel surface, the hull/trunk joint, and as far up the centerboard trunk as I could reach. I used a brush to get the solvent into the crack between hull and trunk. 4) I sanded all areas with 80 grit, and where necessary, ground down the opening in hull to better correspond with the more uniform trunk liner. I also was careful to cut all exposed fiberglass hairs. 5) Vacuumed all fiberglass dust from joint, and repeated solvent wash as in #3 above. 6) Applied Interlux 1000/1001 to all exposed laminate at hull opening and bottom of centerboard trunk liner. 7) Filled void between trunk liner and hull opening with Interlux/VC 'Watertite'--a two-part epoxy filler designed for blister and osmosis repair. 8) After Watertite cured, sanded opening smooth and fair so that hull and trunk appear to be continuous. 9) Repeated solvent wash of all sanded/filled areas. 10) Applied seven coats Interlux 2000/2001 Barrier Coat System making sure to apply each coat within the previous coat's open time (limited time window between coats without having to sand). 11) Spent hours cutting four days worth of epoxy drips out of my hair (and I had even worn a hat!) My intent was to wet sand the last 2000/2001 coat and finish with two coats Interlux/VC 'Underwater Epoxy' (a hard, super slick white finish with teflon that is easy to wet sand or burnish smooth). It got down to the wire, and I had to choose between having a race smooth bottom or cruising in BC. The latter won out. I called Interlux, and they indicated that there was no penalty in waiting to apply the Underwater Epoxy at a later date. They did say, however, that I would have to resand the 2000/2001 surface to get a good mechanical bond, and that I might want to add a couple of coats prior to a final wet sanding and application the Underwater Epoxy. I know this sounds like a lot of work, but if you had seen the same blistered and delaminating M15 that I did, you might choose the same course of action. By the way, it is extremely important that the boat be thoroughly dried out before undertaking any of the above work. The last thing you want to do is seal in any moisture that has not been able to work its way out of the laminate. My boat sat indoors in a heated garage for almost a year prior to my starting this process. This was probably a bit longer than necessary, but I was too busy to take it out anyway. Let me know if you have any additional questions. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "bebe"

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Re: M_Boats: boat cradle
by Conbert H Benneck 08 Apr '02

08 Apr '02

Hi Cherri, When I did the total overhaul on my decrepid ComPac16 I had the same problem. I solved the problem by borrowing some boatyard jack stands from the marina where I used to store our 29 footer, after all their boats were in the water. I got two 6 x 6" beams and put them across the jack stands; thereby lifting the boat off the trailer. That allowed me to remove the trailer from under the boat and gain "easy" access to the keel and underwater areas for paint removal; fiberglass repairs; fairing; and repainting. With the trailer removed, I put blocks under the keel to support the weight of the boat. Then with careful plotting and planning, I could brace the boat at the gunnels, and remove my 6 x 6's to work in those areas. It all worked out very well till the very last operation. I was sliding the trailer back under the boat - carefully - but not with enough fore-thought as to weight location - trailer and boat I don't remember exactly what I was doing ( it obviously was totally wrong!), but the next moment, the trailer tilted aft; the boat slid to the garage floor with the stern against the back wall; and the trailer squirted out from under the bow; leaving the boat to hit the garage floor with a might CRASH, and falling over on it's side .....and with me uttering a string of rather unprintable words in several languages (for the record, not a one helped the immediate situation) So, I spent the whole next day, with bottle jacks; garage floor jacks; and props, slowly righting the boat, and raising the boat from the garage floor so that I could re-install the trailer again. The moral of the story is: keep lots of weight on the trailer tongue; don't try and jiggle the boat in place on the keel rollers without lots of weight on the trailer tongue; and as a further hint, remember see-saws: the end with the biggest weigh wins. In my case, it was the ComPac16. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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