May 2002 - Kraftwerk - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Kraftwerk] A message from Wolfgang Fluer
by Rob Evans 02 May '02

02 May '02

>No. Can't you just shut up if you have nothing to say? >Fluer is absolutely right in my opinion, the amount of >babble is astonishing at times. If it weren't for some >pure gems at times I would not endure the sheer stupidity >of many "discussions", or the many replies that should be >sent privately instead of to the list (Oh Jay!). That is a very American response, if you don't mind me saying. You think only certain people should be entitled to speak. Rob. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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Re: Wolfgang
by elektropolis＠web.de 02 May '02

02 May '02

Daer Kraftwerk-list, in my posting some weeks ago I wrote about a photo an a gay-magazine in germany and about Wolfgangs part as a drummer with Kraftwerk (as far as I know from Ralf Huetter, Florian Schneider and Conny Plank). ... also about MY philosophy, what's it all about to be "mentally part of someting". Childish? Some days ago I received this email signed by "Wolfgang Flür", but I dont't know if this is the really one or someone else. Take your dictionary and have fun: Betreff: Wolfgang flür Von: zuwolf(a)t-online.de (Zuhal Korkmaz) An: elektropolis(a)web.de Datum: 25.04.02 18:49 erweiterten Header anzeigen Pass mal auf Dirk Matten, was du da so von dir gibst im Internet auf den Karftwerk Fanpages. Wenn Du mich dort weiter als Lügner bezeichnest, dann muss ich Dir wohl mit meinem Anwalt drohen wegen Rufschädigung und Verleumdung. Du kannst das gewiss nicht wissen, ob ich getrommelt habe oder nicht. Und spiel Dich nicht so auf mit Deiner Nähe zu Kraftwerk, ("ich war dabei, aks autobahn entstand") das ist ja richtig peinlich! Hast du doch nicht nötig, hast doch selbst schöne Sachen geleistet, nicht wahr? Und wenn du so scharf auf meine Nacktfotos bist, warum fragst du mich nicht selbst? Ich kann jederzeit ein paar neue von mir anfertigen. W. Flür zuwolf(a)t-online.de ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13

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A message from Wolfgang Fluer
by Nicolau Centola 02 May '02

02 May '02

Hi Klaus, Long time, uh? Thanks A LOT for post this marvelous message from Mr. FlÃ¼r itself! It was fantastic to have the other side talking here... hehehe Maybe we could have a big "flame battle" between Mr. FlÃ¼r and Mr. Matten... WOW!! Just kiding guys! A nice idea could be Mr. FlÃ¼r be included in our list. Yes, I know maybe he wouldn't like to make public his address, but he could create another electronic address, as a free one like Yahoo or Hotmail, just to post and receive our messages. It would be fantastic if we could have his points of view about our favourite band, don't you think? Klaus, you could give this idea to him... Of course, Mr. HÃ¼tter, Mr. Schneider and Mr. Bartos could make the same... And then the list would be a real KW discussion list... Krafwerk were not talking about conected society in 1981? Or were they just kiding? Hehehe... Dreams never end.... peace Nicolau www.kraftworld.hpg.com.br > A few days ago I had an e-mail conversation with Wolfgang Fluer > about some of the recent threads on this mailing list concerning him. > As he wanted to comment on some of these mails, but didn't want to > expose his private e-mail address, he asked me to forward the > following message on his behalf. > Klaus Zaepke

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Concerning female film maker
by Paul Mennes 02 May '02

02 May '02

Hello there I've been reading the postings concerning the infamous photos in the garden in Wolfgangs book. I think there has been a bit of a misunderstanding here. If my memory serves me well, I recall that the photos were made by KW themselves, as a kind of fun camp way to spend a sunny afternoon. Isn't there a mention of the German cultdirector Rosa von Praunheim somewhere in that chapter? I think it was meant to be a pastiche, mock up, persiflage, whatever you want to call it of the style of this filmmaker, who is in fact a man (calling himself Rosa). Could this be a clue or am I totally wrong here? Kind greetings Paul

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RE: Wolfgang's message.
by main event 02 May '02

02 May '02

Hello Everyone.. Thanks Klaus for sharing Wolfgang's message with us!! When those photos appeared of the group.. I had a good laugh because we all have fun times and we HAVE ALL at some point had funny photographs taken!! So what?!!! Why did some people make a big deal of it all?? Because it was Kraftwerk .. and they are not allowed to have some fun or have a private social life. I believe that there are many Kraftwerk fans out there who quite simply believe that they never smile, never eat, never talk socially but make god like pronouncements to each other, because they are actually Robots.. Thats what society/media/image can do to some people.. take a soap opera or a drama show.. Its that well written that there are some people out there believe that the settings and characters are actually real people, not actors. So what Im trying to say here is that Kraftwerk's image manipulation was so good that many believed that they are silent, moody people who talk about machines all the time!! I read Wolfgang's book and I found him to be a chap who wears his heart on his sleeve, who believed in Kraftwerk and wanted them to be a well loved band with regular tours/albums. But it seemed that his enthusiasm wasnt mirrored back to him or rubbed off to the founding members. Its good to hear that he has won the first battle in the court case, Its silly that Ralf Hutter and Florian Schnieder want people to believe that they are slient robots without feeling. I have never thought that but it seems that there are many KW fans out there that are taken in by their image!!!!!! Ralf and Florian should just relax and make some nice sequences in KlingKlang.. ' Anyone who swims with the current will reach the big music steamship; whoever swims against the current may perhaps reach the source ' http://www.mp3.com/mainevent http://www.maineventmusik.co.uk http://www.stationmp3.com/mainevent _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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RE: [Kraftwerk] A message from Wolfgang Fluer
by Richard Poolton 02 May '02

02 May '02

Thank you for bringing this Klaus. It is really fascinating. -----Original Message----- From: Klaus Zaepke [mailto:k_z@gmx.de] Sent: 02 May 2002 08:15 To: kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Kraftwerk] A message from Wolfgang Fluer A few days ago I had an e-mail conversation with Wolfgang Fluer about some of the recent threads on this mailing list concerning him. As he wanted to comment on some of these mails, but didn't want to expose his private e-mail address, he asked me to forward the following message on his behalf. Klaus Zaepke ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- Dear Friends, my name is wolfgang Fluer, ex-member of former Kraftwerk. Let me say hello to everyone who contributes to this mailing list, which was shown to me by Klaus Zaepke last week. Fist let me say thank you to Klaus for giving me the opportunity sending my greetings and words to this internet medium. I wish to clear some vagueness which go through this list since my book is out. I also wonder what you guys are discussing some times. Aren't there other things in your lifes instead of discussing what someone in Kraftwerk is probably drinking, for instance, or what it has to mean, when we put flowers in our hair in the middle of the seventies and took photos from us? What's so dammned gripping on that? Kraftwerk members with naked upper bodies under a garden shower, wouw! Have you never been in the swimming baths in hot summer days? And what do you see there? Everyone could see us on the beaches of St. Tropez ore elsewhere in those days. It's at least what I'm talking about in my book - Kraftwerker as humans. And that's what Ralf a. Florian obviously disliked. They wanted to reserve their myth as robotic inhuman secret and hidden. But I've changed since my departure and progress in Yamo. I wrote my book in between three years, long after having split from KW. Of course I was a real member for sixteen years - a physical AND menthal member. All these stupid dealings of a poor Dirki boy ..."if someone is mentally part of Kraftwerk, he is part of the group"...what a shit! This man just wants to create some childish philosophical sentences. He doesn't know anything of me, he was an device dealer - nothing else - especially no natural scientist or psychologist. Don't let you tell of this bullshit what this man pours over the pages. He prevents especially that it was his partner Hans Joachim Wiechers who did the elementary electronical developments for us, not Dirki! The man seems to be a lonly hearted individual and in his special age and wants to be important now with his former nearness to our band. See how badly he needs to describe his deal with Kraftwerk and how adjobtrusive he is. And what is most impertinent, he tells my a lyer. This is unfair and not true! In my book I say the truth on every page and this Dirki is completely wrong for instance when he claims that I didn't play the electronic drums on 'Autobahn'. How can he claim this, when he wasn't there that day? Besides of that I recommend everyone to read his own homepage and discover what he writes about his meeting with Conny Plank - former co-producer of Ralf & Florian - and when he first listened to our song. Make your own rhyme on it... But he's right when he says that I was a robot (after all he lends this sentense from my own book - my coming out as a human). Yes, that's true, I was a robot and I'm glad to be no longer. In my book I write exactly what at least lead to my refusal from this formerly innovative band. All the happy years in the beginning, my upcoming doubts after our Computerworld tour in 1981, up to my painful split. If it was no pain for me than I agree with old Dirki, then I would have been only a machine with no feeling for affection. Yes, I was stupid (as robots usually are) to believe in Ralf & Florian, to trust in them and their constant promises in music making, tour traveling, being properly payed and being participated in our success. Atz least (1986) there was no other chance for me to pave my own path, understand? Today I am happy that I decided so and would never go back. My nature and personality is better open now to human themes and I'm not such an inhibited person like the robots which I've left once. As you know Ralf & Florian did a legal ban on my book here because they didn't want to be shown under Florians garden shower with me. By the way, these photos were taken by ourselves with Florians and my own new Polaroid SX 70 cameras, which we bought during our first US tour in 1975, and not by any female film-makers (I wonder who developed such a rubbish).There were some other points which the both didn't like to be published. And especially that I've invented and built my first electric drum board. Can one imagine why they cannot grudge this to me? The first lawsuit is over now and finally I've won it. The judge believed in my and my lawyers evidences and now R&F filed an appeal against this first judgement. We'll see what the next step can bring... Thanks by the way to Oh Jay for his understanding / partisanship and defencing my point of view. He is right when he says that it was EXPLOITATION for the reason why I've left Kraftwerk. Oh Jay looks completely through, sorry, even if you guys don't like to heare it! Photos which I'd done in the middle of the seventies were of course not only for money, they were also for fun. You're right, Pat, when you wrote "for beauty we'll pay". That was one of our great themes, as everyone knows. That was our point of view in a city where the beauties were running in the streets like insects. I was too - no insect but beauty - and I loved to expose myself, not only on the stage with Kraftwerk. What is so dammed unnatural on it? You in U.S. seem to be especially inhibited there, aren't you? Anyway, I loved myself, my body, my talents, the people and artists around me. It was luck I had beside of my talents, nothing else. Read properly 'Kraftwerk - I Was A Robot' between the lines and discover it's honesty and my naturalness. For those, who cannot handle it, I feel sorry. And who wishes to know more about what electronic music can spread further after a Kraftwerk, should listen to Yamo Pop. 'Time-Pie' for instance (USA: Hypnotic CLP 0119). Delicious every minute! I wish everyone a pleasant time. Sincerely yours, Wolfgang. ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message ------- _______________________________________________ Kraftwerk mailing list Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [Kraftwerk] A message from Wolfgang Fluer
by Dirk Matten 02 May '02

02 May '02

kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com schrieb am 02.05.02: > A few days ago I had an e-mail conversation with Wolfgang Fluer > about some of the recent threads on this mailing list concerning him. > As he wanted to comment on some of these mails, but didn't want to > expose his private e-mail address, he asked me to forward the > following message on his behalf. > > Klaus Zaepke > > > ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- > > Dear Friends, > > my name is wolfgang Fluer, ex-member of former Kraftwerk. Let me say > hello to everyone who contributes to this mailing list, which was > shown to me by Klaus Zaepke last week. > > Fist let me say thank you to Klaus for giving me the opportunity > sending my greetings and words to this internet medium. > > I wish to clear some vagueness which go through this list since > my book is out. I also wonder what you guys are discussing some times. > Aren't there other things in your lifes instead of discussing what > someone in Kraftwerk is probably drinking, for instance, or what it > has to mean, when we put flowers in our hair in the middle of the > seventies and took photos from us? What's so dammned gripping on > that? Kraftwerk members with naked upper bodies under a garden > shower, wouw! Have you never been in the swimming baths in hot summer > days? And what do you see there? Everyone could see us on the beaches > of St. Tropez ore elsewhere in those days. > > It's at least what I'm talking about in my book - Kraftwerker as > humans. And that's what Ralf a. Florian obviously disliked. They > wanted to reserve their myth as robotic inhuman secret and hidden. > > But I've changed since my departure and progress in Yamo. I wrote > my book in between three years, long after having split from KW. Of > course I was a real member for sixteen years - a physical AND menthal > member. All these stupid dealings of a poor Dirki boy ..."if someone > is mentally part of Kraftwerk, he is part of the group"...what a > shit! This man just wants to create some childish philosophical > sentences. Some members understood what I wanted to say and I dont't think philosopical ideas like these are childish. Sorry. He doesn't know anything of me, he was an device dealer - Sorry, device dealer, inventer of electronic stuff, producer of electronic stuff with my partner Hans-Joachim Wiechers AND good friend of Ralf and Florian > nothing else - especially no natural scientist or psychologist. Don't > let you tell of this bullshit what this man pours over the pages. He > prevents especially that it was his partner Hans Joachim Wiechers who > did the elementary electronical developments for us, not Dirki! The iedea for a sequencer like the Synthanorma was created by Hans-Joachim Wiechers and me and it was ppr old Dirki who gave this idea of making "sequencer-music" and the philosophy "I'm the master, you are the servant" to Ralf and Florian (lokk for my website) and it was confirmed by R&F before I put it online. There was no Wolfgang during all there interesting dicussions. The sequencer was constructed AND built by Hans-Joachim Wiechers and me (credits on some of the Kraftwerk LPs. The > man seems to be a lonly hearted individual and in his special age and > wants to be important now with his former nearness to our band. See > how badly he needs to describe his deal with Kraftwerk and how > adjobtrusive he is. And what is most impertinent, he tells my a lyer. > This is unfair and not true! In my book I say the truth on every page > and this Dirki is completely wrong for instance when he claims that I > didn't play the electronic drums on 'Autobahn'. How can he claim > this, when he wasn't there that day? I got this from Ralf & Florian AND Conny Plank, perhaps these persons don't tell the truth. Sorry, if I was wrong ... Besides of that I > recommend everyone to read his own homepage and discover what he > writes about his meeting with Conny Plank - former co-producer of > Ralf & Florian - and when he first listened to our song. Make your > own rhyme on it... > > But he's right when he says that I was a robot (after all he lends > this sentense from my own book - my coming out as a human). Yes, > that's true, I was a robot and I'm glad to be no longer. In my book > I write exactly what at least lead to my refusal from this formerly > innovative band. All the happy years in the beginning, my upcoming > doubts after our Computerworld tour in 1981, up to my painful split. > If it was no pain for me than I agree with old Dirki, then I would > have been only a machine with no feeling for affection. Yes, I was > stupid (as robots usually are) to believe in Ralf & Florian, to trust > in them and their constant promises in music making, tour traveling, > being properly payed and being participated in our success. Atz > least (1986) there was no other chance for me to pave my own path, > understand? Today I am happy that I decided so and would never go > back. My nature and personality is better open now to human themes > and I'm not such an inhibited person like the robots which I've left > once. > > As you know Ralf & Florian did a legal ban on my book here because > they didn't want to be shown under Florians garden shower with me. > By the way, these photos were taken by ourselves with Florians and my > own new Polaroid SX 70 cameras, which we bought during our first US > tour in 1975, and not by any female film-makers (I wonder who > developed such a rubbish).There were some other points which the both > didn't like to be published. And especially that I've invented and > built my first electric drum board. Can one imagine why they cannot > grudge this to me? The first lawsuit is over now and finally I've won > it. The judge believed in my and my lawyers evidences and now R&F > filed an appeal against this first judgement. We'll see what the > next step can bring... > > Thanks by the way to Oh Jay for his understanding / partisanship and > defencing my point of view. He is right when he says that it was > EXPLOITATION for the reason why I've left Kraftwerk. Oh Jay looks > completely through, sorry, even if you guys don't like to heare it! > > Photos which I'd done in the middle of the seventies were of course > not only for money, they were also for fun. You're right, Pat, when > you wrote "for beauty we'll pay". That was one of our great themes, > as everyone knows. That was our point of view in a city where the > beauties were running in the streets like insects. I was too - no > insect but beauty - and I loved to expose myself, not only on the > stage with Kraftwerk. What is so dammed unnatural on it? You in > U.S. seem to be especially inhibited there, aren't you? Anyway, I > loved myself, my body, my talents, the people and artists around me. > It was luck I had beside of my talents, nothing else. > > Read properly 'Kraftwerk - I Was A Robot' between the lines and > discover it's honesty and my naturalness. For those, who cannot > handle it, I feel sorry. And who wishes to know more about what > electronic music can spread further after a Kraftwerk, should listen > to Yamo Pop. 'Time-Pie' for instance (USA: Hypnotic CLP 0119). > Delicious every minute! I wish everyone a pleasant time. > > Sincerely yours, > Wolfgang. > > ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message > ------- > > _______________________________________________ > Kraftwerk mailing list > Kraftwerk(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kraftwerk ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13

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A message from Wolfgang Fluer
by Klaus Zaepke 02 May '02

02 May '02

A few days ago I had an e-mail conversation with Wolfgang Fluer about some of the recent threads on this mailing list concerning him. As he wanted to comment on some of these mails, but didn't want to expose his private e-mail address, he asked me to forward the following message on his behalf. Klaus Zaepke ------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht / Forwarded message ------- Dear Friends, my name is wolfgang Fluer, ex-member of former Kraftwerk. Let me say hello to everyone who contributes to this mailing list, which was shown to me by Klaus Zaepke last week. Fist let me say thank you to Klaus for giving me the opportunity sending my greetings and words to this internet medium. I wish to clear some vagueness which go through this list since my book is out. I also wonder what you guys are discussing some times. Aren't there other things in your lifes instead of discussing what someone in Kraftwerk is probably drinking, for instance, or what it has to mean, when we put flowers in our hair in the middle of the seventies and took photos from us? What's so dammned gripping on that? Kraftwerk members with naked upper bodies under a garden shower, wouw! Have you never been in the swimming baths in hot summer days? And what do you see there? Everyone could see us on the beaches of St. Tropez ore elsewhere in those days. It's at least what I'm talking about in my book - Kraftwerker as humans. And that's what Ralf a. Florian obviously disliked. They wanted to reserve their myth as robotic inhuman secret and hidden. But I've changed since my departure and progress in Yamo. I wrote my book in between three years, long after having split from KW. Of course I was a real member for sixteen years - a physical AND menthal member. All these stupid dealings of a poor Dirki boy ..."if someone is mentally part of Kraftwerk, he is part of the group"...what a shit! This man just wants to create some childish philosophical sentences. He doesn't know anything of me, he was an device dealer - nothing else - especially no natural scientist or psychologist. Don't let you tell of this bullshit what this man pours over the pages. He prevents especially that it was his partner Hans Joachim Wiechers who did the elementary electronical developments for us, not Dirki! The man seems to be a lonly hearted individual and in his special age and wants to be important now with his former nearness to our band. See how badly he needs to describe his deal with Kraftwerk and how adjobtrusive he is. And what is most impertinent, he tells my a lyer. This is unfair and not true! In my book I say the truth on every page and this Dirki is completely wrong for instance when he claims that I didn't play the electronic drums on 'Autobahn'. How can he claim this, when he wasn't there that day? Besides of that I recommend everyone to read his own homepage and discover what he writes about his meeting with Conny Plank - former co-producer of Ralf & Florian - and when he first listened to our song. Make your own rhyme on it... But he's right when he says that I was a robot (after all he lends this sentense from my own book - my coming out as a human). Yes, that's true, I was a robot and I'm glad to be no longer. In my book I write exactly what at least lead to my refusal from this formerly innovative band. All the happy years in the beginning, my upcoming doubts after our Computerworld tour in 1981, up to my painful split. If it was no pain for me than I agree with old Dirki, then I would have been only a machine with no feeling for affection. Yes, I was stupid (as robots usually are) to believe in Ralf & Florian, to trust in them and their constant promises in music making, tour traveling, being properly payed and being participated in our success. Atz least (1986) there was no other chance for me to pave my own path, understand? Today I am happy that I decided so and would never go back. My nature and personality is better open now to human themes and I'm not such an inhibited person like the robots which I've left once. As you know Ralf & Florian did a legal ban on my book here because they didn't want to be shown under Florians garden shower with me. By the way, these photos were taken by ourselves with Florians and my own new Polaroid SX 70 cameras, which we bought during our first US tour in 1975, and not by any female film-makers (I wonder who developed such a rubbish).There were some other points which the both didn't like to be published. And especially that I've invented and built my first electric drum board. Can one imagine why they cannot grudge this to me? The first lawsuit is over now and finally I've won it. The judge believed in my and my lawyers evidences and now R&F filed an appeal against this first judgement. We'll see what the next step can bring... Thanks by the way to Oh Jay for his understanding / partisanship and defencing my point of view. He is right when he says that it was EXPLOITATION for the reason why I've left Kraftwerk. Oh Jay looks completely through, sorry, even if you guys don't like to heare it! Photos which I'd done in the middle of the seventies were of course not only for money, they were also for fun. You're right, Pat, when you wrote "for beauty we'll pay". That was one of our great themes, as everyone knows. That was our point of view in a city where the beauties were running in the streets like insects. I was too - no insect but beauty - and I loved to expose myself, not only on the stage with Kraftwerk. What is so dammed unnatural on it? You in U.S. seem to be especially inhibited there, aren't you? Anyway, I loved myself, my body, my talents, the people and artists around me. It was luck I had beside of my talents, nothing else. Read properly 'Kraftwerk - I Was A Robot' between the lines and discover it's honesty and my naturalness. For those, who cannot handle it, I feel sorry. And who wishes to know more about what electronic music can spread further after a Kraftwerk, should listen to Yamo Pop. 'Time-Pie' for instance (USA: Hypnotic CLP 0119). Delicious every minute! I wish everyone a pleasant time. Sincerely yours, Wolfgang. ------- Ende der weitergeleiteten Nachricht / End of forwarded message -------

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Re: (OT) Anthony Rother (was Re: [Kraftwerk] RE: Arpanet Album)
by Enrique Correa 01 May '02

01 May '02

> Of course. EVERYONE falls short of Kraftwerk. That's why I'm on this list. Same here. > :) It was more a recommendation of what I think is a very good album. Understood. I appreciate your interest. Enrique np: Maschinenwelt by Anthony Rother (this one and Biomechanik are my fav tracks from that album)

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(OT) Anthony Rother (was Re: [Kraftwerk] RE: Arpanet Album)
by Enrique Correa 01 May '02

01 May '02

Erik Jälevik wrote: > On the same note, I'd like to recommend Anthony > Rother's "Simulationszeitalter" to everyone who hasn't > heard it. It is a brilliant album steeped in the Kraftwerk > spirit but yet quite modern sounding. It sounds like what, > in my opinion, Kraftwerk ought to sound like if they > released anything new today. That album has its moments, but (and this is a big BUT for me) it sounds too Detroit-ish for my taste (read: I'm not a Detroit music fan at all, yes they imitate KW to death, but I just can't dig their music). I do own "Simulationszeitalter", and I listen to it only because I like a couple of tunes, but I must admit that I do find the album as a whole, a bit boring, specially for the lack of peaks and melodies. Kraftwerk wrote beautiful infectious songs, Rother writes powerful tunes with some really bitching gear, but that's about it, it does not move the listener the way Kraftwerk does, at least that's the way I feel about him. Another example I can think of is Monolake. They write some very infectious grooves using some top of the line synths, but they lack what made me a KW fan in the first place: song crafting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting any of them down. I do like and respect both Rother and Monolake at what they do, but when comparing them with KW, IMHO they fell way short. Enrique np: Monolake "Cinemascope"

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