- zorn-list - mailman.xmission.com

Re: Keiji's racism
by Ryan Novak 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

>I love Keiji's music but hasn't he ever heard of >EVOLUTION?! I don't quite >get his point and the interviewer doesn't pursue the >matter. There is >physical, mental, cultural and many other types of >evolution. Nothing stays >the same. Any animal population either gets taller, >shorter or completely >dies out. But nothing ever stays the same! I think artists sometimes just find it necessary to find some way in which the world, the culture, or whatever it might be, is going to hell. It's a powerful motivation to make music with, but I'm also interested in people who don't need to always react to the ills of the world to find purpose. Keiji is putting himself in a very conservative position as well, which as noble as his stubbornness might be in defense of "his" culture, almost inevitably he'll have to find a way to roll with it at some point or just fester with resentment as it all blows over him. ----Ryan Novak __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com

1 0

playing catch-up
by nors5379 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

thank god (is this word allowed? or is the congress going to ban me from saying that...) for holidays, because if it wasnt for them i wouldnt be able to catch up on all the zorn related thoughts id like answered or discussed. 1st topic... zorn. alot of people touched recently on the metal track of taboo and exhile, i too thought it was strangely placed. the album flows very naturally then that track pops up and its like an opposite end of the spectrum. to me it seems a little abrassive for a shake-up in the middle of the album. it does break the somewhat monotony of the album, but could something else be place there instead? i too would like to see a patton/zorn/lombardo album. i was recently given a show from the west coast during zorn's little run of shows out there in 1998 featuring these 3 intermingling. its quite a show and does feature that T&E track. now to the discussion part... is the gift zorn's answer to pet sounds? again i was recently passed the zorn radio hour and john speaks of how much of a genius brian wilson is and how he opened the rock world to experimenting with sounds & textures. given pet sounds has a surf like sound and so does the gift, would the gift be zorn's little ode to brian wilson? also someone recently mentioned again that the barbican show was a note for note representation of the disc. to me i dont think that is a big deal, given each track is quite long and so well composed that if improv was thrown it might upset the flow? thats just me though... as for albums by artists that you love, but hate one certain album... i think for any artist there is going to be one album that just totally sucks, be it the first one or somewhere in between. can someone name an artist/group where every album was raved upon by everyone in that artists fan base? i find it impossible, but i also find it amazing that one fellow mentioned that pavements last album was their worst. while poppy i think it was a great way for the group to end. its very strong and constantly makes its spins in my disc player. of course its no crooked rain, crooked rain; but if pavement released 6 crooked rain albums in a row wouldnt you get sick of it and start saying those albums sucked... full circle haha. no attacks towards the fellow that brought this up because i love pavement and have nothing bad to say about them. im just trying to prove some sort of point...? i unfortunately cant think of any albums off the top of my head that i dont like by a certain artist. of course theres always 'i hate this song <skip>', but thats given right? how about albums that you had as a kid, then forgot about and later bought on cd to find out its incredible? i recently had that occur with faith no more's 'angel dust'. i find it fairly cheap and i was like what the hell i remember it being good. i got home and was blown away. what a jump from the real thing which has multiple ok songs to an album that just completely solid. alright i think thats enough for me. i know i've been dead a while on this list, so if i upsetted anyone or touched upon subjects that are dead in the water or already discussed then i apologize.. im ignorant hehe -darryl. ps. does anybody have a track listing for the zorn radio hour disc?

1 0

Re: Personality and Prog
by alastair＠pretentious.co.uk 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

Just to keep on my current contrary trajectory... Dave wrote: >Well my own view on this is probably out of step with most people but I >don't think we should be in the least bit interested in the personalities of >people who happen to be in the spotlight. and >I am also dubious of trying to gauge what someone is like in the flesh from >the way they have been portrayed in print. I generally agree with you on this. But when someone like Robert Fripp (OK, Robert Fripp!) has control over reams and reams of sleeve notes where we learn in intimate detail about *his* side of the struggles with EG and the economic facts of a Soundscapes CD being tens of times more profitable for him than a new KC album (and are then deluged with said Soundscapes CDs), my opinion of him as a person is lowered and I find it difficult to give any of his new albums even a cursory listening-post listen. He is virtually saying "you lot will buy anything, so I'll put as many cheap-to-produce CDs out as I can". He closed down (maybe permanently) the KC Collectors Club because there were "only" a core of 3,000 members! Most artists we discuss on this list would be ecstatic to know that whatever old bootlegs/soundboard tapes etc they put out had a ready paying public of 3,000. I'm sure a couple of days of David Singleton's time cleaning up the tapes doesn't cost much more than editing a Soundscapes performance so, as Americans apparently say, you do the math. Sounds like greed to me, and it affects my perception of the music. And yes, I bought some of the KCCC releases when they were released to the general public. But the 72-74 Crimson are my weak spot. Nobody's perfect. Dave also said: >a) I'm finding increasingly that "personalities" dominate issues. Sometimes, as in the example above, the personalities start to shout louder than the music, even within music that we like. >b) The received wisdom in the British music press is that Prog Rock was >universally crap and was successfully killed off by Punk, as though it was >some kind of cancerous growth. And then they say how great Radiohead and Muse are, who owe far more to Prog than Punk. I think the British music press isn't taken seriously by anyone except themselves, and their readership is dwindling. I don't count the Wire in this (although I don't know about their circulation!). Alastair -- Personalised email by http://another.com

1 0

Keiji's racism
by MorMovies＠aol.com 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

I love Keiji's music but hasn't he ever heard of EVOLUTION?! I don't quite get his point and the interviewer doesn't pursue the matter. There is physical, mental, cultural and many other types of evolution. Nothing stays the same. Any animal population either gets taller, shorter or completely dies out. But nothing ever stays the same!

2 1

Things I just don't get
by Dan Given 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

So, now that the 'worst' category seems to be just about exhausted, what music is out there that, though it generally gets favourable responses from your friends and peers, from media that you trust, etc., that you just don't enjoy. I'm not talking here about stuff that just doesn't fit into a genre that is of no interest to you (i.e. I know nothing about rap, hiphop, new country, most new rock, so those aren't part of it). Here's my few easy to think of ones, being someone who listens to mostly improv and avant-jazz: 1) the Maneri family: Joe and Mat both grate on my nerves, though I've tried several times. I'll even expand that as far as many of the people they play with (such as Pandelis Karayorgis, Randy Peterson, etc...). 2) Joe Morris: he may even fit in the group above. I'm not generally a guitar fan, but Morris is pretty low on the list. 3) Dave Douglas: go ahead and jump all over me for his one, but I just don't care. I don't mind his playing in Masada, and thought there was some potential with Tiny Bell, though I haven't listened to either of those bands in quite a while now. Think the 2 string project albms I have were OK, but again its been a while, and I have no desire to pull them off the shelf. I've heard bits and pieces of most of his other albums, but have never been inspired to buy. 4) Toshimaru Nakamura: the whole electroacoustic thing has been growing on me over the past few years, but he (and the entire sine wave concept in general) is one I will never get. I'd rather have someone scratch at my eyes for an hour than try to listen to either of the two albums I have by him again (do and Weather Sky). 5) Kind of Blue: people constantly tell me how important this album is in the development of jazz. I don't care, it still bores me to death. I'd put tons of recordings by Mingus, Monk, Ellington, etc far above. So, what's on your list ?

7 10

Fwd: Zorn's last great album...
by Efrén del Valle 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

Hi, Since I'm still interested in discussing Zorn's work... :-) > > The last truely great album Zorn did (in my > opinion, naturally) was Taboo and Exile. Although I enjoy this album, I find it a bit dispersed, being the materials there too diversified. It's kind of unbalancing. "IAO" > sounds > to me like an attempt to be another Taboo and Exile > but not nearly as good. I can't find any coincidences between "IAO" and "Taboo". The former is much more cohesioned and all the themes seem to me perfectly related to the topic the album deals with. Someone mentioned that the metal track didn't quite fit into the album's general mood. Maybe it's a contrast resource (that actually works for me). The drum track is too long, > indeed. OK, the percussion track is too long... IAO is IMHO a great achievement by Zorn and I think it deserves more attention that it's actually received. Best, EfrÃ©n del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Copa del Mundo de la FIFA 2002 El Ãºnico lugar de Internet con vÃdeos de los 64 partidos. Â¡ApÃºntante ya! en http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/es/

1 0

Keiji Haino's racism
by Tosh 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

This may have been stated already, but just reading the quote that is given to us - he maybe commenting on the dietary changes that have taken place in Japan since the 60's or 70's. For instance more beef and McDonalds! But then again I haven't read the entire interview. Also one has to go beyond the language and cultural differences to understand what the other is saying. So I won't presume that there is any racial feelings from what I have read on this list. -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com

4 3

Re: Worst Bowie
by Kurt Gottschalk 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

sidestepping your bowie joke, check out 'the fire this time.' i agree with you about brass fantasy records, but this is the exception. also, i wanted the bowie bros to record together my whole life. guess i shouldn't have expected anything more than 'black tie, white noise,' tho. >From: "s~Z" <keithsz(a)concentric.net> >To: <zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: Worst Bowie >Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:03:35 -0700 > >I never could get into any of his Brass Fantasy stuff. > >Seeing him live with the Art Ensemble, and even once with The Leaders, >remain some of my most enjoyable concert memories. > > >_______________________________________________ >zorn-list mailing list >zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com >To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage below >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

2 1

Germany question again
by Efrén del Valle 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

Hi, Sorry to ask again but my trip to Germany was delayed until August 4-19th. I'd like to know of any good shows in the KÃ¶ln, Solingen, Bonn areas during those dates. I'll even be in Netherlands for a couple of days. Any good websites to check? Thanks in advanceand sorry for losing the messages you kindly sent some months ago! Best, EfrÃ©n del VAlle _______________________________________________________________ Copa del Mundo de la FIFA 2002 El Ãºnico lugar de Internet con vÃdeos de los 64 partidos. Â¡ApÃºntante ya! en http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/es/

1 0

Things I just don't get
by David Keffer 04 Jul '02

04 Jul '02

>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel(a)ichips.intel.com> > Jim O'Rourke: > Reading THE WIRE and other magazines (the ones which care) we get the > feeling that Jim transforms in gold everything that he touches (rock, > improv, electronics, pop, avant-barnyard country punk, etc). After > almost ten years of intense activity, I still can't think of one > track by him that I can memorize. ten tracks worth repeated listenings by Jim O'Rourke 1) "Muni/Michel Piccoli" (Table of the Elements, 7 Nitrogen, 1993,7") 2) "Sheep in Wolves Clothing" from Poetic Silhouettes compilation (AMF, 1034, 1993, cd) 3) "Captain's Bay Road" from Dutch Harbor: Original Film Soundtrack (Atavistic, ALP85CD, 1997, cd) 4) "George" (w/ L.M. Connors & D. Bailey) from Playbacks (Bingo, BIN 004, 1999, cd) 5) "There's Hell in Bern" (w/ L.M. Connors) from Meme compilation (Meme, Meme 000, 1998, cd) 6) "The harp factory on lake street" (Table of the Elements, 19 Potassium, 1995, cdep) 7) "Dry Bones in the Valley" (w/ D. Grubbs & Tony Conrad) from upgrade and afterlife (Drag City, DC90CD, 1996, cd) 8) "Thos. Dudley Ah! Old Must Dye" (w/ D. Grubbs) from Crookt, Crackt, or fly (Drag City, DC43, 1993, cd) 9) "Mere/A Young Person's Guide to Drowning from Disengage" (Staaltape/Korm Plastics, ST 048/KP 4292, 1992, cdx2) 10) most of Xylophonen Virtuosen (Incus, CD38, 2000, cd) The styles of these 10 tracks are diverse. Tracks 1-3 are guitar solos. Tracks 4-5 are guitar duets. Tracks 6-8 are gastr del sol "indie rock" tracks. Track 9 is a minimalist/musique concrete composition. Track 10 is euro free improvisation. I certainly won't take the position that every (or even a majority of the recordings) by O'Rourke are golden (and I haven't heard many of them), but these 10 tracks are. Have you ever heard "Dry Bones in the Valley"? Words don't do it justice. I don't know of many artists that I can, on demand, think of 10 essential tracks. There are many artists frequently discussed on this list that I think would envy a life-long body of work from which ten great tracks could be gleaned. Anyway, my two cents. David K. NP: Dock Boggs: His Folkway Years p.s. 11) Happy Days (Revenant, 101, 1997, cd) I can't believe I left this one off. An hour long track beginning with lovely guitar playing and ending in the roar of a hurdy gurdy drone. At least the first 15 minutes of this track have had many repeated listenings from me.

1 0