December 2003 - zorn-list - mailman.xmission.com

Efren, Skip & the Whole Enchilada
by Craig Lieske 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

My take on this whole ugly and pretty silly business is that Skip's argument had it's points, but once the name calling starts, that's when I stop my sympathy. To criticize a European's lack of comomand of the English language is ridiculous, and an example of chauvanistic ugly-Americanism. It's the same line of thinking that has made America the most hated country in the world. How's your Spanish, Skip? Efren, you are very opinionated, and I cannot agree with your whole argument, but you haven't reduced yourself to insults as Skip has. In the classic sense, an intellectual argument does not include a round of chauvinistic insults. Maybe those of us on this list should try to pay attention to that. My problem with Efren's argument stems from the personal belief that negative criticism is a sole function of one's ego, making the negative review pointless. Personally, I like the John Cage "interesting or not interesting" line of criticism, but adherence to that line of thinking would make this list drastically less entertaining. And I personally welcome this new Masada String Trio record. You folks may laugh, but I just never seem to get tired of hearing that stuff... Craig L. _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

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Top 10's Guillermo E. Brown/Nicholas Payton
by Theo Klaase 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Guillermo E. Brown's "Soul at the hands of the machine" is definitely worthy of some attention. Great Album... Anyone heard Nicholas Payton's new CD called "Sonic Trance?" Another great album... Like Miles updated! Anyone have the Miles In Tokyo album with Sam Rivers? I can't buy this damn thing anywhere... How is it? -Theo Get Government out of my life! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/

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rune 170
by David Slusser 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:37:21 EST > From: CuneiWay(a)aol.com > Subject: a label's specific vision > To: zorn-list(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <ac.4d1303cb.2d0a75d1(a)aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > hmmmmmm... > > as a label owner - the guy writing the checks - I definitely reserve > the > right to - if not make suggestions, then at least to write checks > towards > projects that fit 'my specific vision' and to 'put my money where my > vision is' by > doing so. Since there are always MORE projects being offered than > there is time > or money to do, I always figure that I might as well lose money on the > ones > that strike my fancy the most.... > > For better or worse, little labels generally DO reflect the owners > 'vision', > otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to HAVE a label. As Herb, > myself, and a > few others here can say with GREAT authority, running a label is NOT a > good > way to make money. It never has been, and I think it's a little worse > now. > > If you like what Cuneiform does, then I am a genius. > > If you don't like what Cuneiform does, then I am a dope with bad taste > who > wastes everyone's time with my pathetic releases. > > Take your pick. True for me, true for Tzadik, true for (fill in the > blank). > > > I'll conclude with a joke the big boss of our U.S.distributor once > told me: > > "How do you get a million dollars in the music biz?" > > > Start with 10 million. > > > Steve > Cuneiform Records Just stumbled across Cuneiform's Soft Machine issue "Backwards" this week (rune 170) and have to refute that Steve's a dope with bad taste.

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bailey and poetry
by Benito Vergara 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: zorn-list-bounces+bvergara=sfsu.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:zorn-list-bounces+bvergara=sfsu.edu@mailman.xmission.com]On > Behalf Of David Keffer > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 5:11 AM > And I haven't heard this one yet (just released) but I am very much > anticipating it... > > 10. Derek Bailey - Poetry and Playing (Paractactile) > > This is 26 minutes of Bailey reading poems by Lyn Hejinian, Peter > Riley and > Steve Dalachinsky (none of whom I have heard before) and playing > (hopefully > simultaneously) some acoustic guitar. Whoa. And why does there seem to be only one online store (a jazz store in England, according to Google) that lists it? Where can I get this? Later, Ben http://www.thewilyfilipino.com

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\\10
by jason tors 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

in no order// tim berne's science friction live: the sublime and the rapture: echoes the books: lemon of pink prefuse73: extinguished outakes anders griffen: all over the place cat power: you are free guillermo e. brown: soul at the hands of the machine happy apple: youth oriented postal service: give up tim berne's miniature: jmt reissue __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/

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2003 Top 10
by David Keffer 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

2003 Top 10 releases 1. And Also the Trees - Further from the Truth (AATT website) 2. Derek Bailey & Shaking Ray Levis - Live at Lamar's in Chattanooga (Incus website) 3. SWANS - Forever Burned (Young Gods Website) (Sad but this SWANS reissue makes the top 10 list but the new 2003 Angels of Light album does not) 4. Keiji Haino - "c'est parfait" endoctriné tu tombes la tete la première (Turtles Dream) 5. Yuji Itsumi - Jiyu no ishi (Free Will) book + cd (PSF) 6. Richard Youngs - Airs of the Ear (Jagjaguwar) 7. Knead - This Melting Happiness ... lp (Fractal) 8. Derek Bailey & Will Gaines - Rappin & Tappin (Incus) 9. Sonic Youth - Mariah Carey and the Arthur Doyle Handcream 7" (Narnack) And I haven't heard this one yet (just released) but I am very much anticipating it... 10. Derek Bailey - Poetry and Playing (Paractactile) This is 26 minutes of Bailey reading poems by Lyn Hejinian, Peter Riley and Steve Dalachinsky (none of whom I have heard before) and playing (hopefully simultaneously) some acoustic guitar. David K.

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Re: Re: A good bunch of Tzadik releases
by Bill Ashline 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

> From: skip heller <thisparadise(a)sbcglobal.net> > As for my beef with the semantics, perhaps. But words is what we do here. > The minute somebody gets into "Zorn should make another record that sounds > like this other record he made that I liked", it's past "I didn't like that" > and right into "I know better than the artist", I get angry. That's not a > technical call -- that's bad manners. There's no necessary connection between an audience wanting an artist to produce another record like the one previously liked and an audience "knowing better than the artist." There are any number of instances that we, as members of an audience, wish an artist would produce more in the same vein of a particular work. And that's not disrespect at all. It's an issue of desire. The argument here assumes that the artist knows best about what can be done. That's a dubious call. There's no reason to worship artists just because they produce music. We can appreciate their work or not, but their reception as artists has everything to do with how an audience reacts to their work. If Efren or Zach feel that critically, Zorn has overdone the Masada project and should move on to something else, that's a legitimate complaint coming from people who obviously admire his work. In fact, Efren originally said, "There are a few ones which look great, but I keep wondering why another Masada ST with so much happening last September at Tonic!" And Zach's claim was similar--a desire to hear a recording of some of the other work that was produced at the Zorn tribute. No one is saying that Zorn is "wrong" to produce another Masada ST CD. They are saying they don't like the choice of doing so. Ultimately, obviously, Zorn has the final say in what he puts out. And we (audience) have the final say in terms of both consumption and judgment. The other point about Nina Rota or Cecil Taylor is really not apropos. Zorn is far more eclectic than these artists in terms of the styles of music he produces and the number of different projects he takes on. It's much more legitimate to criticize someone like Zorn for working too long in a musical form since he's built a career out of not doing so. I happen to agree with Efren, Zach, and Patrice that Masada has gotten old. I don't buy these CDs anymore. Tiring of someone's work doesn't mean I'm telling him what to do, though I may wish he did something else. On a final note, and I won't get into the issue of someone's arguments being "incoherent," "unsound," "invalid," "illogical" or what have you, let's not get into ripping people about their abilities in English. Much of what passes as native speaker English around lists such as this one are riddled with slang, colloquialisms, obscure idioms, hip dialect, etc., such that any non-native would have a good deal of trouble at times following all the riffs. And some of the native speaker writing, when it isn't full of such phrasing, is badly written. I'm not here to correct grammar, one of the things I do for a living, but seeing the trials that non-native speakers undergo in learning a new language, not to mention my own attempts to learn other languages, I don't think anyone around here or anywhere else is in any position to critique someone else's English. Just be glad that they're making an attempt, despite the fact that when we write around here we almost always assume that our audience is our own countrymen. There are people on the Zorn list from all over the world, many of whom probably don't write as often as they would like for fear of being ridiculed for their English ability.

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Top 10(s) 2003
by francko.lamerikx＠philips.com 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Music: 1. Broadcast "Haha Sound" 2. Khanate "Things Viral" 3. Pram "Dark Island" 4. Enslaved "Below the Lights" 5. Kylie Minogue "Body Language" 6. Sunn O))) "white1" 7. Ulver "A Quick Fix of Melancholy" 8. Merzbow "Puroland" 9. Bohren und der Club of Gore "Black Earth" 10. Axis of Perdition "The Ichneumon Method" Movies: 1. Kill Bill Vol. 1 (Quentin Tarantino) 2. Hulk (Ang Lee) 3. Gerry (Gus van Sant) 4. Far From Heaven (Todd Haynes) 5. ken park (Larry Clark) 6. Good Bye Lenin! (Wolfgang Becker) 7. The Ring (Gore Verbinski) 8. Respiro (Emanuele Crialese) 9. Ju-on (The Grudge) (Takashi Shimizu) 10. Spirited Away (Hayao Miyazaki) DVD of the year (I have not seen the Brakhage Anthology yet...): "Mystics in Bali" by H. Tjut Djalil, on the impeccable Mondo Macabro label. Concerts: 1. The Musical Box Plays Genesis "Selling England by the Pound" @ Brussels 2. The Musical Box Plays Genesis "Foxtrot" @ Cologne 3. Reynols @ Worm, Rotterdam 4. Broadcast, somewhere in Rotterdam 5. Mastodon @ Effenaar, Eindhoven 6. Thrones/Sunn O)))/Isis @ Kontich, Belgium 7. John Zorn's Electric Masada @ Blue Note Festival, Ghent, Belgium 8. Prong @ Effenaar, Eindhoven 9. Melt-Banana @ Paradiso, Amsterdam 10. Naked City @ Theater Carre, Amsterdam In fact, I thought the Electric Masada show was WAY better than the Naked City gig. The NC gig was under-rehearsed to say the least. It was Mike Patton's finest hour, but I really couldn't get into Frisell's playing. I walked out of his gig at the Blue Note Festival in Ghent a couple of weeks later. The worst concert of the year, though, was Tomahawk @ Paradiso, Amsterdam. Never before have I seen Patton performing so badly. Frankco

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tim berne boot
by brian sullivan 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

hi. does anyone have the tim berne show from tonic w/ erik friedlander. its jan 20 either 2000 or 99. i can look it up. thanks, brian. _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com

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a label's specific vision
by CuneiWay＠aol.com 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

hmmmmmm... sorta changing the subject here (sorry - I won't weigh in on the grumbly stuff) >> sometimes i find myself wishing JZ, and others in his position, would >not >> make the suggestions to the artists but let them come in with their own >> ideas (i know, this does indeed happen alot). vs. >If the label is an outgrowth of >John's specific vision -- AND HE'S THE ONE WRITING THE CHECKS.... as a label owner - the guy writing the checks - I definitely reserve the right to - if not make suggestions, then at least to write checks towards projects that fit 'my specific vision' and to 'put my money where my vision is' by doing so. Since there are always MORE projects being offered than there is time or money to do, I always figure that I might as well lose money on the ones that strike my fancy the most.... For better or worse, little labels generally DO reflect the owners 'vision', otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to HAVE a label. As Herb, myself, and a few others here can say with GREAT authority, running a label is NOT a good way to make money. It never has been, and I think it's a little worse now. If you like what Cuneiform does, then I am a genius. If you don't like what Cuneiform does, then I am a dope with bad taste who wastes everyone's time with my pathetic releases. Take your pick. True for me, true for Tzadik, true for (fill in the blank). I'll conclude with a joke the big boss of our U.S.distributor once told me: "How do you get a million dollars in the music biz?" Start with 10 million. Steve Cuneiform Records

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