December 2013 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

2014 eclipses
by Wiggins Patrick 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

For those who may not know, we've two total lunar eclipses in store for us in 2014. Times below are good no matter where one observes from. All times are UT. Azimuth/altitude positions of the Moon (in parenthesis) and altitude positions of the Sun are calculated for SPOC but will be close for all of northern Utah. 15 April Partial Begins: 05:58:19 UT (153/35) Sun -35 Total Begins: 07:06:47 UT (173/38) Greatest: 07:45:40 UT (185/38) Total Ends: 08:24:35 UT (197/37) Partial Ends: 09:33:04 UT (216/31) Sun -32 08 October Partial Begins: 09:14:48 UT (227/45) Sun -46 Total Begins: 10:25:10 UT (244/35) Greatest: 10:54:36 UT (250/30) Total Ends: 11:24:00 UT (256/25) Sun -25 Partial Ends: 12:34:21 UT (268/12) Sun -12 Considering the hour both eclipses happen I don't know if SLAS will hold any public eclipse watches but SPOC will be available so maybe there could be talk of private events. for those traveling from SLC maybe we could hire a bus... :) patrick (who will only let the bus jokes die when the anchovy jokes die)

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] 2014 eclipses
by Joe Bauman 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

Thankee! ------------------------------ On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 2:34 AM MST Wiggins Patrick wrote: >Oh, oh, I think I smell anchovy wars... :) > >Actually my first thought was to list MDT but then I realized that there are folks on the list in different time zones so rather than really confuse things by listing times for multiple time zones I figured I'd just do as NASA and the USNO do and list UT. > >But since you asked, subtracting 6 hours (since we're on Daylight Silly Time during both eclipses) here are MDT: > >23:58:19 UT (153/35) Sun -35 >01:06:47 UT (173/38) >01:45:40 UT (185/38) >02:24:35 UT (197/37) >03:33:04 UT (216/31) Sun -32 > >03:14:48 UT (227/45) Sun -46 >04:25:10 UT (244/35) >04:54:36 UT (250/30) >05:24:00 UT (256/25) Sun -25 >06:34:21 UT (268/12) Sun -12 > > >On 03 Dec 2013, at 00:53, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Patrick, it would be very helpful for those of us not as conversant with UT as you are, if you could just put it in Utah time. I'd almost give a big anchovy for that to happen. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 12:27 AM, Wiggins Patrick <paw(a)getbeehive.net> wrote: >> >> For those who may not know, we've two total lunar eclipses in store for us in 2014. >> >> Times below are good no matter where one observes from. All times are UT. >> >> Azimuth/altitude positions of the Moon (in parenthesis) and altitude positions of the Sun are calculated for SPOC but will be close for all of northern Utah. >> >> 15 April >> Partial Begins: 05:58:19 UT (153/35) Sun -35 >> Total Begins: 07:06:47 UT (173/38) >> Greatest: 07:45:40 UT (185/38) >> Total Ends: 08:24:35 UT (197/37) >> Partial Ends: 09:33:04 UT (216/31) Sun -32 >> >> 08 October >> Partial Begins: 09:14:48 UT (227/45) Sun -46 >> Total Begins: 10:25:10 UT (244/35) >> Greatest: 10:54:36 UT (250/30) >> Total Ends: 11:24:00 UT (256/25) Sun -25 >> Partial Ends: 12:34:21 UT (268/12) Sun -12 >> >> Considering the hour both eclipses happen I don't know if SLAS will hold any public eclipse watches but SPOC will be available so maybe there could be talk of private events. >> >> for those traveling from SLC maybe we could hire a bus... :) >> >> patrick (who will only let the bus jokes die when the anchovy jokes die) > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opinons please
by Chuck Hards 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

I would agree with those who favor training along with any telescope giveaway, as well as a more user-friendly and capable telescope than what the club has been giving out. Ten hours of instruction could be accomplished over the course of two star parties. What if SLAS set up a summer program with a fixed number of openings, people would sign-up and be required to attend two training sessions at star parties, and after completion would be given their telescope? Similar to what we do now with observatory use permission. We could also give a one-year membership along with the scope, for people to continue to receive mentorship, along with either basic planetarium software, or some type of printed media such as a simple star atlas or observing guide? We would need volunteers as teachers, so I'll throw my hat in the ring right now if the program can run from May through September, for at least 4 sessions. I'm not condemning the existing give-away program, and applaud those behind it. But I feel that by attaching a bit of required training with it, the long-term retention rate might actually be higher, even though fewer total telescopes would be given out. My only other question is what strings are attached to the ZAP grants? Can required training be tagged-onto an outreach giveaway program?

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FW: Re: Opions please
by Joe Bauman 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

Oops I meant to say a 10 or 15 hour training course. ----Forwarded message---- From: josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 7:12 PM MST Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opions please If I were a kid budding astronomer and someone said you can have this scope -- but only after you complete an hour if training, I'd say No thanks! Or something not as polite. The idea is to foster an interest that may or may not go anywhere, not to start some rigorous training that few if any kids would complete. All that for a telescope? When you think about it, so what if the child sells it? We're still providing low- or no-cost telescopes to people who are interested in astronomy. Let the kids play around with the scopes and they'll learn to use then if they are really interested. And I agree -- in fact it should go without saying -- we should only give away fully equipped telescopes. It should be a simple matter to check them out and return any defective scopes. ------------------------------ On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 6:51 PM MST Wiggins Patrick wrote: >Excellent input Brent. > >I'm going to ask that this topic be added to next week's SLAS transitional board meeting agenda. > >patrick > > >On 02 Dec 2013, at 18:35, Brent Watson <brentjwatson(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > In 1990 and 1991 Iomega gave over 350 six and eight inch telescopes to schools with the stipulation that they were to be used like a library book - checked out to students. Each school was required to have a teacher attend an intensive workshop for three days, 20 hours per day. Iomega picked up all expenses for the workshop. At the end of the training teachers were proficient in using the scope and had a good, solid knowledge of observational astronomy. > > We (Wayne Sumner and I) also ran some contests during the year, which for prizes we gave away subscriptions to Astronomy magazine. I believe most of those scopes are still around, although I bet many have moved away with teachers. Still others undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair and disuse. I do still hear occasionally, about their existence and use. Some still probably rattle around in the back of school buses on the way to a student's house. > > I know at least three of the people involved in that program from a teacher standpoint have continued on and still sponsor student astronomy programs. Last I heard one was an assistant professor of Astronomy at a local university. > > My opinion is that telescopes should not be given away unless a couple of conditions are met. 1) the recipient receives training on how to use the telescope, and not just an hour or two. That training should include star ID and telescope basics sufficient to instill a demonstrable proficiency in using the scope. This training is probably 10 to 15 hours over a several day period. The scope should be given at the END of that training, although it needs to be available during the training. I know that is pretty stringent, but otherwise the scope will be left un-noticed and languishing in a closet or attic. > > The second condition is that the scope should be usable. Personal experience tells me that it should be at least six inch aperture, and have a Telrad, a couple of eyepieces and my Bright Objects book. That was the genesis of my books, and it was for that specific purpose the Bright Object book was written. > > Even after all of the above has been accomplished, I predict that 75% of the telescopes will be used for less than three years. > > A better give-away, I believe, would be a subscription to an astronomy rag. A magazine (hard copy or internet version) coming to an individual young person each month will build anticipation, and will either prove a person's interest in the science or demonstrate otherwise. If optics are to go along with the magazine, a good pair of binoculars is a great place for anyone to start. A good guide book such as "Binocular Stargazing" by Michael D. Reynolds would make an excellent addition to a good binocular. > > That is my opinion based upon my experience. There are probably others that will have differing opinions, and that is good. Let's hear them! > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Opions please
by Joe Bauman 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

If I were a kid budding astronomer and someone said you can have this scope -- but only after you complete an hour if training, I'd say No thanks! Or something not as polite. The idea is to foster an interest that may or may not go anywhere, not to start some rigorous training that few if any kids would complete. All that for a telescope? When you think about it, so what if the child sells it? We're still providing low- or no-cost telescopes to people who are interested in astronomy. Let the kids play around with the scopes and they'll learn to use then if they are really interested. And I agree -- in fact it should go without saying -- we should only give away fully equipped telescopes. It should be a simple matter to check them out and return any defective scopes. ------------------------------ On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 6:51 PM MST Wiggins Patrick wrote: >Excellent input Brent. > >I'm going to ask that this topic be added to next week's SLAS transitional board meeting agenda. > >patrick > > >On 02 Dec 2013, at 18:35, Brent Watson <brentjwatson(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> In 1990 and 1991 Iomega gave over 350 six and eight inch telescopes to schools with the stipulation that they were to be used like a library book - checked out to students. Each school was required to have a teacher attend an intensive workshop for three days, 20 hours per day. Iomega picked up all expenses for the workshop. At the end of the training teachers were proficient in using the scope and had a good, solid knowledge of observational astronomy. >> >> We (Wayne Sumner and I) also ran some contests during the year, which for prizes we gave away subscriptions to Astronomy magazine. I believe most of those scopes are still around, although I bet many have moved away with teachers. Still others undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair and disuse. I do still hear occasionally, about their existence and use. Some still probably rattle around in the back of school buses on the way to a student's house. >> >> I know at least three of the people involved in that program from a teacher standpoint have continued on and still sponsor student astronomy programs. Last I heard one was an assistant professor of Astronomy at a local university. >> >> My opinion is that telescopes should not be given away unless a couple of conditions are met. 1) the recipient receives training on how to use the telescope, and not just an hour or two. That training should include star ID and telescope basics sufficient to instill a demonstrable proficiency in using the scope. This training is probably 10 to 15 hours over a several day period. The scope should be given at the END of that training, although it needs to be available during the training. I know that is pretty stringent, but otherwise the scope will be left un-noticed and languishing in a closet or attic. >> >> The second condition is that the scope should be usable. Personal experience tells me that it should be at least six inch aperture, and have a Telrad, a couple of eyepieces and my Bright Objects book. That was the genesis of my books, and it was for that specific purpose the Bright Object book was written. >> >> Even after all of the above has been accomplished, I predict that 75% of the telescopes will be used for less than three years. >> >> A better give-away, I believe, would be a subscription to an astronomy rag. A magazine (hard copy or internet version) coming to an individual young person each month will build anticipation, and will either prove a person's interest in the science or demonstrate otherwise. If optics are to go along with the magazine, a good pair of binoculars is a great place for anyone to start. A good guide book such as "Binocular Stargazing" by Michael D. Reynolds would make an excellent addition to a good binocular. >> >> That is my opinion based upon my experience. There are probably others that will have differing opinions, and that is good. Let's hear them! > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Opions please
by Jay Eads 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

Patrick, Here is a link to a review on the Firstscopes: http://10minuteastronomy.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/cheap-scope-review-the-ce… Some issues with the Firstscopes are no finder is included. I would think a newbie would need at least a red dot finder attached so they can at least do basic star hopping. Another issue is as the review points out, "for Celestron to produce FirstScopes at their target price point and still stay in business, they could not afford to parabolize the primary mirrors." Thus at F4 the objects even in the center of the eyepiece are not going to look good and those on the edge, well, the observer may think they are observing over the Great Salt Lake or a dump with the sea gulls they see. Last, if the reviewer, an active amateur got tired of messing with the scope afte a couple of months, I wonder where the scopes SLAS has given out are? On a shelf? On the AWB 5 inch F/5 Dob the review in S&T seems favorable. It has a nice secondary from the view, and I would assume a parabolize mirror for the price. Much like a Sky Watcher dobs, that have collapsible truss tubes, this one is very similar. It has a red dot finder on it, basically like the Orion EZ II finder works. A final huge bonus is that all the profits go to AWB's program. So in a way the club gives back twice, once locally, once overseas. In that cost range there are two other options. One is the Orion StarMax 90mm for $199.99 at http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Cassegrain-Telescopes/Orion-StarMax-90m… Mix reviews on the Orion. I think the AWB would be a better deal. The other is Sky-Watcher Virtuoso 90mm Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope for $250.00 which is motorized I believe. I don't know much about this one. Looks to have basic camera and dvd/smart phone adapter to take some pictures of planets. Probably same issues as what your currently giving away, decent on the moon and planets, not so great on DSO's. Perhaps someone else can chime in. So I think if your looking to get out of the Firstscope give away, the AWB 5 inch would be a good deal, at least S&T likes them. I would first order one and have it reviewed for ease of setup, ease of use and the images you get out of it. Then if that works out, great, the board can decide if that is the direction the club goes in for scope give aways. If it doesn't work out, well you have a cheap loaner or I'm sure someone would appreciate it. If the scope checks out, I would move that way if it was me. I'm sure others will share their opinions.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Iowa Night Skies
by Bruce Hugo 03 Dec '13

03 Dec '13

Your neighbors must put on quite a show with that level of Christmas lighting! I live in Sandy and I have one of their lovely glow ball lights i my front yard. It is brutal! At least your over lighting is seasonal. I'm stuck with mine year round. I still laugh when I think of my father-in-law. He was at our house and noted how wonderfully lucky we are to have a street light in our front yard to ward off burglars and muggers! He couldn't understand why I don't want the street light. Amazing the fear some people have of the dark. BRuce From: Dave Gary <davegary(a)me.com> That?s way better than dealing with the Christmas lights on my street. I don?t have street lights on my street and most of the neighbor?s yard lights are not too bright. However, Christmas can be scary (see your shadow) bright around here. Dave

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Opions please
by Jay Eads 02 Dec '13

02 Dec '13

Clark Planetarium until a few years ago when I assume funding from the legislature got cut had a program where teachers and students could sign up for a 3 day course and at the end of the 3 days they put together a base for either a XT8 (teachers) or a XT6 for students. I had several students from my astronomy program apply, and get accepted to that program and got a XT6. I know that out of 6, 3 are still using them 5 years or more later. Actually one via her mother contacted me on Facebook about a solar filter for her XT6 just last week and I was able to help her. I know what she is getting for Christmas. So with the Clark program kids were taught the constellations, given an Uncle Al star wheel and taught to use, and then taught how to use the scope. More was in there as well. I don't think that a fifty percent retention is bad. I'm sure for the program it may have been lower as my students got further support after the class while using the scope. In terms of my own opinion as an educator, kids don't need to be lectured. They need to be taught some basic skills, then scaffolded as they learn to use the telescope. Show them, then get out of the way because they will learn, apply and go. I believe firmly it is best to give a basic level of rudimentary knowledge, then get the kids actively engaged in the learning process by applying what they learned.If they need you, you can tell if your attentive or the kids will simply ask. I also agree with Brent that binoculars and a good atlas and book can accomplish the same thing. I guess it just depends what the goal is. I also think it is important for people to know that this is coming from the ZAP grant (correct) from SL County Zoo and Parks, not coming from SLAS funds. The grant is made to be used in activities like this I believe but someone can confirm that. The question for members of SLAS and the board is what is the best way to use the grant money to accomplish the goal that the give away is trying to accomplish. Is it fewer items with a higher quality telescope and good supports, or is it binoculars with supports? I think the thread is getting into what to do if there is a give away and I think that is best for either a board meeting or a general meeting (up to the board) for SLAS, since this isn't a SLAS message board. The discussion here is on WHAT to give away, a quality scope or a set of binoculars, or something else. Perhaps besides the scope or binoculars the discussion has to be on what other pieces of equipment should be a part of hte give away with the scope. Just some thoughts, feel free to disagree or state your own view. I'm done now as I mentioned equipment for scopes that couldbe mentioned. What binoculars for say $100 to $200 would you give away?

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Comet Lovejoy 12/2/2013 from the driveway in St. George
by Dave Gary 02 Dec '13

02 Dec '13

A couple of shots of Comet Lovejoy from the driveway this morning. http://www.flickr.com/photos/78046474@N06/sets/72157638282488235/ Dave

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Need a monitor?
by Wiggins Patrick 02 Dec '13

02 Dec '13

Anyone need a computer monitor? I've got a KDS XF-9B 19" Flat CRT Monitor I'd like to find a new home for: http://www.amazon.com/KDS-XF-9B-19in-CRT-Monitor/dp/images/B00007MENZ Free to whomever might want it. patrick

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