July 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

ISS/Shuttle Pass Observation
by Rodger C. Fry 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

Tonight, I set my LX-200 10" Meade up in the park behind my house in Murray, UT. I entered the orbital elements into the telescope for the ISS pass, set the telescope up and then observed a few things before the ISS came into view. I observed Epsilon Lyrae and found the viewing to be moderately stable being able to split the double pairs with a 24mm eyepiece. At 10:20 PM, I entered the command for the telescope to track the ISS and it responded by going to a point about 10 deg above the NW horizon. Right on time, the ISS came into view, I centered it in the finder and hit enter to start tracking. When the ISS was fairly low in the sky the telescope tracked the ISS/Shuttle fairly well. I was using a 34mm super wide-angle eyepiece to give me the widest field of view. I could clearly make out the solar panels on each end of the ISS and they were a brillient orange color. The Shuttle reflected a more white light. As the ISS/Shuttle approached near the zenith, tracking was difficult and I couldn't keep the object in the FOV for more than about 10% of the time. Before I put the telescope away, I took a look at Jupiter. It was fairly low (in the soup) but I could easily make out the banding and four moons but no impact spot. I put things away by 11:30 PM. It was worth the effort. Thank You, Rodger C. Fry Consulting Geologist

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh...
by Daniel Holmes 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

Another thing I've often said was a quote from Arthur Clarke: either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Either possibility is horrifying. Dan ------Original Message------ From: stormcrow60(a)xmission.com Sender: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com ReplyTo: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... Sent: Jul 24, 2009 11:53 AM Richard quoted" "I'm pretty sure he represents a TINY minority of "believers"." I am not so sure about that... _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com Sent from my BlackBerry. Please excuse any mispelings or typos.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh...
by M Wilson 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

It's particularly irrational when you consider that IF all of this [universe] was created for just us, why is it that 99.9999999999% of it is inaccessable? --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Julie Chorley <jchorley(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Julie Chorley <jchorley(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 7:49 AM Well, to quote one of my favorite books.. "What a waste of space." How can anyone believe that we could be the only living beings in such a mind-bogglingly huge universe? Even from a religious standpoint, does it make sense for God to have created all this, just for us? It's not logical, no matter how you look at it. Julie On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com>wrote: > I'm just back home after my talk last evening at Bryce Canyon National Park > and I'm a bid saddened. > > This is my 23rd year of doing monthly programs at Bryce and my favorite > part has always been the interaction with the audience afterwards. > > But after last evening's talk a guy came up to me saying he wanted to play > devil's advocate. I told him "Great!" and asked what was on his mind. > > At the end of my talks I always close with the Hubble Ultra Deep Field and > use it to come up with a rough idea of how many stars there may be in our > Universe and then note that with all of those stars out there made up of the > same stuff as our Sun it's hard for me to imagine that we happen to be so > lucky to have the only star with the only planet with life. > > Well, the guy took exception to that. He was calm, collected and well > spoken, but thought that since God had created only us (here on Earth) > there's no reason to believe that there is life elsewhere. > > We went back and forth for a minute or two and finally I said we'd just > have to agree to disagree and he walked away. > > My one bit of consolation was that the small crowd that had gathered around > us was vocally on my side. > > But it still bothers me that otherwise rational people will place religious > beliefs over those of science without even giving science a chance. > > Ok, time to get News out so I'll stop here. I just needed to vent. > > patrick > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > -- Julie Chorley _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Sigh...
by Patrick Wiggins 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

I'm just back home after my talk last evening at Bryce Canyon National Park and I'm a bid saddened. This is my 23rd year of doing monthly programs at Bryce and my favorite part has always been the interaction with the audience afterwards. But after last evening's talk a guy came up to me saying he wanted to play devil's advocate. I told him "Great!" and asked what was on his mind. At the end of my talks I always close with the Hubble Ultra Deep Field and use it to come up with a rough idea of how many stars there may be in our Universe and then note that with all of those stars out there made up of the same stuff as our Sun it's hard for me to imagine that we happen to be so lucky to have the only star with the only planet with life. Well, the guy took exception to that. He was calm, collected and well spoken, but thought that since God had created only us (here on Earth) there's no reason to believe that there is life elsewhere. We went back and forth for a minute or two and finally I said we'd just have to agree to disagree and he walked away. My one bit of consolation was that the small crowd that had gathered around us was vocally on my side. But it still bothers me that otherwise rational people will place religious beliefs over those of science without even giving science a chance. Ok, time to get News out so I'll stop here. I just needed to vent. patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 77, Issue 66
by BAXTER J DAVID Owner 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

There must exist in reality a real probability of an asteroid of various given sizes to hit Earth within a certain time frame. Factors would include gravitational attraction of Earth and Asteroid, effects of other graviational fields, given courses and number of asteroids available. The problem is that we don't know all the trajectories, and near Earth passing asteroids that exist in the solar system. Jupiter does have a greater gravitational pull then Earth, and also has a larger size to better attract near Jupiter passing asteriods, when compared to Earth. Earth has had two close passages of asteroids in the past ten years. To better locate more near Earth passing asteroids, it is my understanding that an observatory on the far side of the Moon, would increase our ability to detect asteroids, presently not detected. Some indirect methods could involve ultra-sensitive recordings of Earth's gravitational fluctuations, in relation to other objects in the solar system. The two asteroids that came close to Earth were not detected until they were extremely close by astronomical standards. J. David Baxter > From: utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 77, Issue 66 > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:26:25 -0600 > > Send Utah-Astronomy mailing list submissions to > utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > utah-astronomy-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Utah-Astronomy digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Sigh... (Kim) > 2. Re: Sigh... (Daniel Holmes) > 3. Re: Statistical mythbusting. (erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:41:56 -0600 > From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> > To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... > Message-ID: <D80C1D7695AB4B75A8CB06FAC17D1613@OFFICEDESK1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Remember, Julie, the whole point of religion isn't logic but faith. I'm > comfortable with both, but I have my limits. My personal faith doesn't > require that I be irrational. > > How's this: There is evidence that there may be an infinite number of > "universes". So, God doesn't need to create life elsewhere in this universe; > when he (I know siding with a male-gendered God isn't necessarily PC) wants > to populate another world he simply creates another universe. This, by the > way, isn't my personal view - just another possibility, and my faith also > allows for possibilities. > > Kim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy- > > bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Julie Chorley > > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:49 AM > > To: Utah Astronomy > > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... > > > > Well, to quote one of my favorite books.. "What a waste of space." How > can > > anyone believe that we could be the only living beings in such a > > mind-bogglingly huge universe? Even from a religious standpoint, does it > > make sense for God to have created all this, just for us? It's not > logical, > > no matter how you look at it. > > > > Julie > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Patrick Wiggins > > <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com>wrote: > > > > > I'm just back home after my talk last evening at Bryce Canyon National > Park > > > and I'm a bid saddened. > > > > > > This is my 23rd year of doing monthly programs at Bryce and my favorite > > > part has always been the interaction with the audience afterwards. > > > > > > But after last evening's talk a guy came up to me saying he wanted to > play > > > devil's advocate. I told him "Great!" and asked what was on his mind. > > > > > > At the end of my talks I always close with the Hubble Ultra Deep Field > and > > > use it to come up with a rough idea of how many stars there may be in > our > > > Universe and then note that with all of those stars out there made up of > the > > > same stuff as our Sun it's hard for me to imagine that we happen to be > so > > > lucky to have the only star with the only planet with life. > > > > > > Well, the guy took exception to that. He was calm, collected and well > > > spoken, but thought that since God had created only us (here on Earth) > > > there's no reason to believe that there is life elsewhere. > > > > > > We went back and forth for a minute or two and finally I said we'd just > > > have to agree to disagree and he walked away. > > > > > > My one bit of consolation was that the small crowd that had gathered > around > > > us was vocally on my side. > > > > > > But it still bothers me that otherwise rational people will place > religious > > > beliefs over those of science without even giving science a chance. > > > > > > Ok, time to get News out so I'll stop here. I just needed to vent. > > > > > > patrick > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Julie Chorley > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.11/2232 - Release Date: 07/23/09 > > 18:00:00 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:42:52 +0000 > From: "Daniel Holmes" <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... > Message-ID: > <770730517-1248446581-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-626931948-(a)bxe1293.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > It was just practice. Seventy-gazillion-trillion tries makes perfect. > > When I was living in Denver, my neighbors wouldn't let their kids look through my scope after I told them how far away m31 was. > > Dan > Sent from my BlackBerry. Please excuse any mispelings or typos. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Julie Chorley <jchorley(a)gmail.com> > > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:49:11 > To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... > > > Well, to quote one of my favorite books.. "What a waste of space." How can > anyone believe that we could be the only living beings in such a > mind-bogglingly huge universe? Even from a religious standpoint, does it > make sense for God to have created all this, just for us? It's not logical, > no matter how you look at it. > > Julie > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com>wrote: > > > I'm just back home after my talk last evening at Bryce Canyon National Park > > and I'm a bid saddened. > > > > This is my 23rd year of doing monthly programs at Bryce and my favorite > > part has always been the interaction with the audience afterwards. > > > > But after last evening's talk a guy came up to me saying he wanted to play > > devil's advocate. I told him "Great!" and asked what was on his mind. > > > > At the end of my talks I always close with the Hubble Ultra Deep Field and > > use it to come up with a rough idea of how many stars there may be in our > > Universe and then note that with all of those stars out there made up of the > > same stuff as our Sun it's hard for me to imagine that we happen to be so > > lucky to have the only star with the only planet with life. > > > > Well, the guy took exception to that. He was calm, collected and well > > spoken, but thought that since God had created only us (here on Earth) > > there's no reason to believe that there is life elsewhere. > > > > We went back and forth for a minute or two and finally I said we'd just > > have to agree to disagree and he walked away. > > > > My one bit of consolation was that the small crowd that had gathered around > > us was vocally on my side. > > > > But it still bothers me that otherwise rational people will place religious > > beliefs over those of science without even giving science a chance. > > > > Ok, time to get News out so I'll stop here. I just needed to vent. > > > > patrick > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > -- > Julie Chorley > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:26:15 -0600 (MDT) > From: erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Statistical mythbusting. > Message-ID: > <40816.66.182.79.254.1248449175.squirrel(a)webmail.thebluezone.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > >As Clint Eastwood's character Harry Callaghan said "do you feel lucky?", > in our lifetimes the chances Yellowstone Volcano erupting and a > asteriod/meteor impact are outside possibilities, but both will happen. > > How many times has the earth had impacts in the past? How many volcanic > eruptions? > Of course many more major super volcanic eruptions and a major eruption is > more likely to occur before an impact event, but look at the moon and > recently Jupiter and it seems an impact will occur in the future. > Lets hope we are lucky enough to miss out on it. I recall, like Chuck > said, the Astronomical community is the group pushing the idea that an > impact is a certain. > > Can such a relatively rare event even have statistics even applied to it? > > Erik > > > You're tilting at the wrong windmill, Daniel. Since you quoted my post, > > I'm > > assuming you are addressing my statement as well as Kim's. > > > > Planetary scientists and astronomy popularizers are the ones pushing this > > idea; the same scientists who are publicly rallying for a more complete > > inventory of earth-orbit-crossing objects. > > > > They are the ones you need to write your letter of objection to. Or the > > media who give them a platform, I suppose. I'm sure they'd love to play > > semantic games with you. > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:16 PM, daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> I would like to address the concept that the earth is "due" for a > >> Tunguska > >> size impact event. > >> So as far as Tunguska is concerned, you should go out and buy a bunch of > >> green bananas with the full confidence that you have plenty of time for > >> them > >> to ripen. Impact events are never "due". > >> > >> > >> > >> --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> > >> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Asteroid or Comet Collision With Earth > >> Probability > >> > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > >> > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 5:21 PM > >> > BTW, for the worriers among us, some > >> > scientists feel that the earth is > >> > overdue for a "nuclear" sized impact; one big enough to > >> > cause major > >> > disruptions or even mass extinction. Thus the current > >> > emphasis on finding > >> > and cataloging objects that cross earth's orbit. (Get > >> > busy, Patrick!) ;o) > >> > > >> > Combat soldiers are fond of saying that you never hear the > >> > one (bullet) that > >> > gets you... > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 77, Issue 66 > **********************************************

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh...
by stormcrow60＠xmission.com 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

Richard quoted" "I'm pretty sure he represents a TINY minority of "believers"." I am not so sure about that...

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh...
by stormcrow60＠xmission.com 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

Quoting Kim's Response, "How's this: There is evidence that there may be an infinite number of "universes". So, God doesn't need to create life elsewhere in this universe; when he (I know siding with a male-gendered God isn't necessarily PC) wants to populate another world he simply creates another universe." I personally believe in the theory of the multiverse, whether they have been created by a "God" or not. But maybe, of all the infinite universes out there in "space-time", our universe is the only one that just happens to have all the right physical laws to allow life as we know it to exist. Perhaps we are able to be aware of ourselves and contemplate ourselves (and the idea of a creator), in our universe simply because when our universe was created it met all the required laws of nature as we know it. Assuming this to be the case, I believe our universe is teeming with life, from the ubiquitous microbe to the rare intelligent civilization. However, maybe we are the only universe in all the realm of the "multiverse" that supports any kind of life at all, or life that we would recognize as life. The caveat to this, assuming there are an infinite amount of universes in the multiverse, is that there is an infinite amount of universes that support life. It truly boggles my mind... in a good way. LOL! Jon

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh...
by Richard Tenney 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

I once heard Hugh Nibley (LDS scholar) remark that the great, compelling thing about science fiction is the idea that anything is possible out there in the vast cosmos, or words to that effect. Patrick, I wouldn't worry about one guys wacky notions. I'm pretty sure he represents a TINY minority of "believers". --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com> wrote: > From: Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Sigh... > To: "utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 4:12 AM > I'm just back home after my talk last > evening at Bryce Canyon National Park and I'm a bid > saddened. > > This is my 23rd year of doing monthly programs at Bryce and > my favorite part has always been the interaction with the > audience afterwards. > > But after last evening's talk a guy came up to me saying he > wanted to play devil's advocate. I told him "Great!" > and asked what was on his mind. > > At the end of my talks I always close with the Hubble Ultra > Deep Field and use it to come up with a rough idea of how > many stars there may be in our Universe and then note that > with all of those stars out there made up of the same stuff > as our Sun it's hard for me to imagine that we happen to be > so lucky to have the only star with the only planet with > life. > > Well, the guy took exception to that. He was calm, > collected and well spoken, but thought that since God had > created only us (here on Earth) there's no reason to believe > that there is life elsewhere. > > We went back and forth for a minute or two and finally I > said we'd just have to agree to disagree and he walked > away. > > My one bit of consolation was that the small crowd that had > gathered around us was vocally on my side. > > But it still bothers me that otherwise rational people will > place religious beliefs over those of science without even > giving science a chance. > > Ok, time to get News out so I'll stop here. I just > needed to vent. > > patrick > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Fw: Astronomy Conference and High Elevation Dark Sky Viewing...
by Richard Tenney 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

--- On Fri, 7/24/09, Julian Starfest <Julianstars(a)expresswire.com> wrote: > From: Julian Starfest <Julianstars(a)expresswire.com> > Subject: Astronomy Conference and High Elevation Dark Sky Viewing... > To: Astroclubs(a)skyandtel.com > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:04 AM > Folks, > > We now have another world class dark sky star party and > astronomy equipment expo in California. > > We need YOUR help to spread the word about the Julian > Starfest (SAN DIEGO COUNTY) from August 20-23, 2009. > > Located high in the Cuyamaca Mountains above San Diego, at > a mountain winery near an historic gold rush town. Just one > hour east of the San Diego Wild Animal Park - Take I-15 or > I-5 from the North and exit at Hwy 78 east. Or take > I-8 and exit at Hwy 79 north to Julian. > > Please forward this message to all of your friends in > California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and beyond who like > science, astronomy, camping, hiking and mountains. And > please help us spread the word using our flyers and > posters... > > PDF Starfest Flyer -- (11x8.5) -- > http://tinyurl.com/luauzt > > PDF Starfest Poster -- (17x11) -- > http://tinyurl.com/levvho > > If you can, please print out some of the PDF flyers above > and post them in appropriate places. > > Starfest details here -- http://www.JulianStarfest.com > Register now! -- http://tinyurl.com/JSF2009 > > 2009 Activities schedule -- http://tinyurl.com/lcrok2 > Julian Map and Starfest location > -- http://tinyurl.com/mf3znp > > Email -- Julianstars(a)expresswire.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > [] > > [] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Statistical Mythbusting
by stormcrow60＠xmission.com 24 Jul '09

24 Jul '09

Now I know where I am going for my next vacation: The Convention of Tunguska Size Objects! LOL!

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