June 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Canopus56 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Joe wrote: > This looks really good for us! Thanks, Joe I have add a qualifier on this. Although the LCROSS impact dates and times are a report by a first-person LCROSS team member, the impact times are inconsistent with prior LCROSS statements. As the the Raupe blog analysis at http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/moon-at-lcross-impact.html notes, at the May 21 press conference, an LCROSS team member stated that they were trying to time the impact when the Moon was over Keck (and the slit spectrograph at IRTF). This is what I have always understood was going to happen (that the impact will be timed to favor the big Hawaii observatories). This figure shows the sublunar position of the Moon at 10:30 UT and 13:30 UT on 10-8-2009: http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/photos/20091009MoonPosFig1… At 10:30 UT, the Moon is over New Mexico and only at about 46 degs alt at Hawaii. The Moon would transit Hawaii about 3:43 Hawaii time (13:43 UT) at a much higher local Hawaii altitude. For the Intermountain Time Zone, you really only have a two hour window between 10:30UT and 12:30UT before Intermountain astronomical twilight where the impact can be imaged at a better altitude in Hawaii but still be visible in the Intermountain west. Pacific coasters have another hour of darkness to work with. In short, I suspect and hope the actual impact date and time will firm up somewhere in this two hour window. At 12:30UT, the situtation will be reversed, the Moon will be at about 76 degrees over Hawaii and only about 45 degrees in alt in Utah. So again, like most LCROSS announcements, things are provision, may change before the impact and probably involve windows of opportunity several hours in duration. But, things are still looking much better for North Am observers, however, the impact date and time finally firms up. But it looks like the impact will be a sufficiently real thing for Utah to start dusting off my telescope for (or wiping the rain water off it given today's weather). -:) Clear Skies - Kurt

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My new solar mount setup
by Canopus56 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

>From components suggested by Bill Cowles, http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1932 Dedicated visual solar mount based on suggestions from Bill Cowles. Celestron GT114 mount head ($225 on sale) with Alpine Astronomy Vixen Head Kit ($100), Orion Right-Angle Bracket ($30) and optional Televue 2.5x Powermate. The Celestron GOTO mount-base computer will align on the Sun alone. Solar observing setup for very relaxed eye viewing on a relative budget price. Tracks 5 mins plus before tracking needs a tweak on initial test. Optionally can be mounted at right-angle to observer using Vixen mount adapter for imaging. The Vixen direct mount gives the PST Ha and Ka a better center of gravity to take the pressure off the tracking motors. Vixen head adapter for Celestron GT114, NexStar 60/80 and StarSeeker 70/80, and one for the NexStar 114/130GT and StarSeeker 114/130 http://www.alpineastro.com/mounting_accessories/mounting_accessories.htm Install instructions http://www.alpineastro.com/mounting_accessories/nexstar_bracket/NexStar%20B… Took it out today for a test drive between the rolling cirrus cloud waves. Maybe try some imaging tomorrow. - Kurt

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Joe Bauman 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Way to go, Chuck! -- Joe --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 10:11 AM I have reserved the 32" Grim scope on October 8, 9, 10, 11. The 10th is a pre-scheduled public star-party so any video event would obviously have to work around that, at the discretion of the observatory director. If/when an impact day and time is pinned-down, I will cancel the unnecessary reservations. As time permits this summer I will finalize my camcorder adapter. I have a special project ahead of it that must be completed first but there is plenty of time. Hopefully later this summer I'll have some test video sequences available. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Canopus56 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Patrick - Reading the Raupe report at http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/moon-at-lcross-impact.html - a little closer - Raupe's 18:26UT impact time estimate is Raupe's own extrapolation from ephemeris data based on what LCROSS Team leader Colaprette said during the May 21 news conference. I conclude that the Raupe impact time estimate is less reliable than the May 25 LCROSS Team LCROSS Observing Group posting and the LCROSS Facebook posting on May 26 - after the news conference - that put the impact much earlier in the day at 10:30-13:30 UT. As noted above, in the 10:30 to 12:30 UT timeframe - the impact is observable from Utah. - Kurt P.S. - Not sure what you mean by "this list" with respect to: http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/06/kaguya-at-perilune.html

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SMART-1 maps Kaguya lunar impact
by Patrick Wiggins 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

As Kurt reported here earlier, this impact will not be visible from the USA. SMART-1 maps Kaguya lunar impact http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMM5RVTGVF_index_1.html#subhead1 patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event
by Canopus56 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

Patrick wrote: > That should have read: > http://groups.google.com/group/lcross_observation/msg/58c86f61e6f054cf Yep, that post by Moon Thumper is accurate. Moon Thumper is a handle by Brian Day - the LCROSS public education officer - who can be seen here: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1043177609033 - Kurt

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Joe Bauman 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

This looks really good for us! Thanks, Joe --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Canopus56 <canopus56(a)yahoo.com> wrote: From: Canopus56 <canopus56(a)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event? To: "Utah Astronomy List Serv" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:02 PM Whoops - let's delete that prior post and substitute this one - I incremented the hour counter the wrong way - so these altitudes are not so great - but are workable on Oct. 8 and 9 and maybe Oct. 10, but advancing sunrise kills Oct. 11. - Kurt ============= Joe and Patrick: My apologies for the delay in responding. The best current first person LCROSS Team impact time reports are appended. "MoonThumper" (see appended posts) is Brian Day, the LCROSS Team Public Education Officer. The hearsay blog report from Joel Raupe, the political space-science reporter at http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/narrowing-lcross-impact-visibilit… appears consistent with this. Raupe's report is based on watching a May 21 NASA-TV vodcast of an LCROSS panel and taking notes on the impact dates. Jim Mosher, a physicist and amateur astronomer is also a reliable authoritative source. http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/LCROSS+Impact. The LCROSS announced dates and times are consistent with - and actually much better than - the December and January 2009 LCROSS Observation Campaign test imaging sessions that I tried (blocked by some clouds) to participate in. Plugging in the current best announced impact dates and times into my planetarium program - I get the following altitudes for SLC - (which are actually way much better than I expected): October 8 10:30 UT (4:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-8 4h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 4h11m Hour Angle : 23h52m Azimuth :+173°24' Altitude :+74°11' Sun Alt -33 October 9 11:30 UT (5:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-9 5h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 5h15m Hour Angle : 23h52m Azimuth :+173°15' Altitude :+74°57' Sun alt -23 October 10 12:30 UT (6:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-10 6h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 6h20m Hour Angle : 23h52m Azimuth :+173°21' Altitude :+73°55' Sun alt -12 October 11 13:30 UT (7:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-11 7h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 7h24m Hour Angle : 23h53m Azimuth :+174°58' Altitude :+71°10' Sun alt -1 These read like they are positioning imaging equally for the KECK and IRFT in Hawaii and Apache Point in New Mexico. But - a cautionary note - this launch has been delayed so many times - something like four or five - I'm taking the whole thing with a grain of salt until Atlas V candle is actually lit. Reversing my earlier comment a few days ago - if these impact dates and times hold true - this is something to at least get started to get worked up about in Utah - as our observing point is well positioned. The club's 1 meter Grim scope will be the place to be. Think positive vibes about for the June 17 launch being successful. - Kurt Appended sources for impact date-times ======================= From: MoonThumper <brianh...(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Local: Tues, May 26 2009 9:32 pm Subject: Initial List of Impact Dates and Times Tony Colaprete and the LCROSS Science Team are releasing their initial list of impact dates and times corresponding to launch opportunities in the June 17-21 window. A launch on June 17 results in an impact on October 8 at 10:30 UT. A launch on June 18 results in an impact on October 9 at 11:30 UT. A launch on June 19 results in an impact on October 10 at 12:30 UT. A launch on June 21 (June 20 EDT) results in an impact on October 11 at 13:30 UT. These times are preliminary and could be subject to change. We’ll post any updates on this site. Looks like best visibility for the widest portion of North America corresponds to the June 17 launch. Let's all hope for good weather at the cape that afternoon! Thanks, Brian Day brian.h....(a)nasa.gov =========================== 5/25/2009 LCROSS Facebook page entry on south polar impact date: "LCROSS Lunar Impactor Mission at 7:55am May 25 We have not announced the impact time since it is heavily dependent on launch date and also the in-flight orbit corrections the team must execute. For a June 17-21 launch window, we know the impact will be at the south pole. The "exact" location (which crater) will be determined at impact minus 30 days. Updates to the impact time will be updated ... Read Morethen as well. It is a big trajectory calculation that moves the exact location/time around. For a nominal June 17th launch (for one window of several that day), impact is Oct 8th, around 10:30 UTC (ish). That's about 3:30 AM PDT. The timing is optimized to get the moon high over Hawaii. If we launch from another date or another window within that June 17th the impact date and time of impact changes. We are excited that these potential Oct 8-11th impact dates (told you there was a range!) provide a visible moon to most of the western continental US to observe the impact. Stay tuned! LCROSS Facebook team." http://www.facebook.com/pages/LCROSS-Lunar-Impactor-Mission/154478180006 ======================= _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Canopus56 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

P.S. - Illuminated fractions and apparent libration from SLC for those dates are: October 8 10:30 UT (4:30 MDT) Illumination: 80.9% Libration in latitude: -4d43m Libration in longitude: -3d33m Terminator at equator: E34.7 (Colongitude 145.3) October 9 11:30 UT (5:30 MDT) Illumination: 71% Libration in latitude: -3d30m Libration in longitude: -2d50m Terminator at equator: E22 (Colongitude 158) October 10 12:30 UT (6:30 MDT) Illumination: 59.8% Libration in latitude: -2d Libration in longitude: -2d Terminator at equator: E9.1 (Colongitude 170.8) October 11 13:30 UT (7:30 MDT) Illumination: 47.9% Libration in latitude: -0d19m Libration in longitude: -1d8m Terminator at equator: W3.6 (Colongitude 183.6)

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Canopus56 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

Whoops - let's delete that prior post and substitute this one - I incremented the hour counter the wrong way - so these altitudes are not so great - but are workable on Oct. 8 and 9 and maybe Oct. 10, but advancing sunrise kills Oct. 11. - Kurt ============= Joe and Patrick: My apologies for the delay in responding. The best current first person LCROSS Team impact time reports are appended. "MoonThumper" (see appended posts) is Brian Day, the LCROSS Team Public Education Officer. The hearsay blog report from Joel Raupe, the political space-science reporter at http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/narrowing-lcross-impact-visibilit… appears consistent with this. Raupe's report is based on watching a May 21 NASA-TV vodcast of an LCROSS panel and taking notes on the impact dates. Jim Mosher, a physicist and amateur astronomer is also a reliable authoritative source. http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/LCROSS+Impact. The LCROSS announced dates and times are consistent with - and actually much better than - the December and January 2009 LCROSS Observation Campaign test imaging sessions that I tried (blocked by some clouds) to participate in. Plugging in the current best announced impact dates and times into my planetarium program - I get the following altitudes for SLC - (which are actually way much better than I expected): October 8 10:30 UT (4:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-8 4h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 4h11m Hour Angle : 23h52m Azimuth :+173°24' Altitude :+74°11' Sun Alt -33 October 9 11:30 UT (5:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-9 5h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 5h15m Hour Angle : 23h52m Azimuth :+173°15' Altitude :+74°57' Sun alt -23 October 10 12:30 UT (6:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-10 6h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 6h20m Hour Angle : 23h52m Azimuth :+173°21' Altitude :+73°55' Sun alt -12 October 11 13:30 UT (7:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-11 7h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 7h24m Hour Angle : 23h53m Azimuth :+174°58' Altitude :+71°10' Sun alt -1 These read like they are positioning imaging equally for the KECK and IRFT in Hawaii and Apache Point in New Mexico. But - a cautionary note - this launch has been delayed so many times - something like four or five - I'm taking the whole thing with a grain of salt until Atlas V candle is actually lit. Reversing my earlier comment a few days ago - if these impact dates and times hold true - this is something to at least get started to get worked up about in Utah - as our observing point is well positioned. The club's 1 meter Grim scope will be the place to be. Think positive vibes about for the June 17 launch being successful. - Kurt Appended sources for impact date-times ======================= From: MoonThumper <brianh...(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Local: Tues, May 26 2009 9:32 pm Subject: Initial List of Impact Dates and Times Tony Colaprete and the LCROSS Science Team are releasing their initial list of impact dates and times corresponding to launch opportunities in the June 17-21 window. A launch on June 17 results in an impact on October 8 at 10:30 UT. A launch on June 18 results in an impact on October 9 at 11:30 UT. A launch on June 19 results in an impact on October 10 at 12:30 UT. A launch on June 21 (June 20 EDT) results in an impact on October 11 at 13:30 UT. These times are preliminary and could be subject to change. We’ll post any updates on this site. Looks like best visibility for the widest portion of North America corresponds to the June 17 launch. Let's all hope for good weather at the cape that afternoon! Thanks, Brian Day brian.h....(a)nasa.gov =========================== 5/25/2009 LCROSS Facebook page entry on south polar impact date: "LCROSS Lunar Impactor Mission at 7:55am May 25 We have not announced the impact time since it is heavily dependent on launch date and also the in-flight orbit corrections the team must execute. For a June 17-21 launch window, we know the impact will be at the south pole. The "exact" location (which crater) will be determined at impact minus 30 days. Updates to the impact time will be updated ... Read Morethen as well. It is a big trajectory calculation that moves the exact location/time around. For a nominal June 17th launch (for one window of several that day), impact is Oct 8th, around 10:30 UTC (ish). That's about 3:30 AM PDT. The timing is optimized to get the moon high over Hawaii. If we launch from another date or another window within that June 17th the impact date and time of impact changes. We are excited that these potential Oct 8-11th impact dates (told you there was a range!) provide a visible moon to most of the western continental US to observe the impact. Stay tuned! LCROSS Facebook team." http://www.facebook.com/pages/LCROSS-Lunar-Impactor-Mission/154478180006 =======================

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Interest in "LCROSS Crunch" event?
by Canopus56 09 Jun '09

09 Jun '09

Joe wrote > Kurt, How low will the moon be? Thanks, Joe Patick replied > I'll yield to Kurt on this Joe and Patrick: My apologies for the delay in responding. The best current first person LCROSS Team impact time reports are appended. "MoonThumper" (see appended posts) is Brian Day, the LCROSS Team Public Education Officer. The hearsay blog report from Joel Raupe, the political reporter with a space-science personal but authoritative sideline, at http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/05/narrowing-lcross-impact-visibilit… appears consistent with this. Raupe's report is based on watching a May 21 NASA-TV vodcast of an LCROSS panel and taking notes on the impact dates. Jim Mosher, a physicist and amateur astronomer is also a reliable authoritative source. http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/LCROSS+Impact. The LCROSS announced dates and times are consistent with - and actually much better than - the December and January 2009 LCROSS Observation Campaign test imaging sessions that I tried (blocked by some clouds) to participate in. Plugging in the current best announced impact dates and times into my planetarium program - I get the following altitudes for SLC - (which are actually way much better than I expected): October 8 10:30 UT (2:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-8 2h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Moon Sideral Time : 2h11m Hour Angle : 21h55m Azimuth :+111°52' Altitude :+59°35' Sun Alt -50 October 9 11:30 UT (3:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-9 3h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 3h15m Hour Angle : 21h55m Azimuth :+110°31' Altitude :+60°12' Sun Alt -43 October 10 12:30 UT (4:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-10 4h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 4h19m Hour Angle : 21h55m Azimuth :+111°48' Altitude :+59°35' Sun Alt -34 October 11 13:30 UT (5:30 MDT) Salt Lake City Utah 2009-10-11 5h30m ( TU + -6h00m ) Sideral Time : 5h23m Hour Angle : 21h56m Azimuth :+115°55' Altitude :+58°01' Sun Alt -23 These read like they are positioning imaging equally for the KECK and IRFT in Hawaii and Apache Point in New Mexico. But - a cautionary note - this launch has been delayed so many times - something like four or five - I'm taking the whole thing with a grain of salt until Atlas V candle is actually lit. Reversing my earlier comment a few days ago - if these impact dates and times hold true - this is something to at least get started to get worked up about in Utah - as our observing point is well positioned. The club's 1 meter Grim scope will be the place to be. - Kurt Appended sources for impact date-times ======================= From: MoonThumper <brianh...(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Local: Tues, May 26 2009 9:32 pm Subject: Initial List of Impact Dates and Times Tony Colaprete and the LCROSS Science Team are releasing their initial list of impact dates and times corresponding to launch opportunities in the June 17-21 window. A launch on June 17 results in an impact on October 8 at 10:30 UT. A launch on June 18 results in an impact on October 9 at 11:30 UT. A launch on June 19 results in an impact on October 10 at 12:30 UT. A launch on June 21 (June 20 EDT) results in an impact on October 11 at 13:30 UT. These times are preliminary and could be subject to change. We’ll post any updates on this site. Looks like best visibility for the widest portion of North America corresponds to the June 17 launch. Let's all hope for good weather at the cape that afternoon! Thanks, Brian Day brian.h....(a)nasa.gov =========================== 5/25/2009 LCROSS Facebook page entry on south polar impact date: "LCROSS Lunar Impactor Mission at 7:55am May 25 We have not announced the impact time since it is heavily dependent on launch date and also the in-flight orbit corrections the team must execute. For a June 17-21 launch window, we know the impact will be at the south pole. The "exact" location (which crater) will be determined at impact minus 30 days. Updates to the impact time will be updated ... Read Morethen as well. It is a big trajectory calculation that moves the exact location/time around. For a nominal June 17th launch (for one window of several that day), impact is Oct 8th, around 10:30 UTC (ish). That's about 3:30 AM PDT. The timing is optimized to get the moon high over Hawaii. If we launch from another date or another window within that June 17th the impact date and time of impact changes. We are excited that these potential Oct 8-11th impact dates (told you there was a range!) provide a visible moon to most of the western continental US to observe the impact. Stay tuned! LCROSS Facebook team." http://www.facebook.com/pages/LCROSS-Lunar-Impactor-Mission/154478180006 =======================

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