June 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued)
by Joe Bauman 13 Jun '09

13 Jun '09

Aloha Rob, I scanned in my old M13 view years ago, but I don't recall what kind of film it was on originally. For the new M22 photo, I took CCD images, which I still have. I suspect I clicked on the wrong star to set the color balance. Yokwe yuk, Joe --- On Sat, 6/13/09, Rob Ratkowski Photography <ratkwski(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote: From: Rob Ratkowski Photography <ratkwski(a)hawaii.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued) To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 11:35 AM Aloha Joe Possibly you had tungsten balanced film, old film, reciprocity failure/color shift or maybe done by the light of a 'blue moon'. Do you make a duplicate file when you do your processing ?? and keep the original safe and untouched?? Aloha Rob _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued)
by Joe Bauman 13 Jun '09

13 Jun '09

My Maxim DL program -- which I used to process my M22 photo -- has a place to click for white balance and another for color balance. It also has an auto-balance feature. What I'm thinking now is that the original exposures have the information needed for true color, but I clicked on the wrong star to set the color or white balance; or I told it to do it automatically, and that was a mistake. (I tried to process several different ways and I'm not sure which I ended up with). I suspect that with the correct processing I could get something close to true color for M22. Long ago I took a film photo of M13 and it turned out almost pure blue -- why did that happen? Best wishes, Joe --- On Sat, 6/13/09, daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued) To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 1:21 AM There is a long sad story that goes with this debate. Several years ago when astrophotography was starting to catch on in amateur circles there was a vigorous debate about whether pictures should reflect reality of the science or be interpreted solely for their beauty. The science side held the moral high ground but over time were swamped by events in the market place. The software vendors have no sympathy with scienctific realism and they install auto whitebalance routines all along the chain of processing. Starting with antiblooming gain on the chip and the color masks of popular DSLR cameras through the conversion to JPEG and into the world of photoshop. It is extremely difficult to get an accurate color balance with amateur equiptment. When it is achieved with much effort and special equiptment the results are less "pretty" than most people want to see. For the science, we know the color of M22 by brute force analysis of individual stars. lots of them. There are no vast populations of blue stars in the cluster. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2033 We know where the mainsequence cutoff is, it is redish, and you can see the spinkle of blue stragglers to the left of that. This is the reality of M22, the science. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued)
by Joe Bauman 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

That's really interesting, John. Thanks, Joe --- On Fri, 6/12/09, John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> wrote: From: John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued) To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 5:45 PM Unlike most globulars, M22 is in the galactic plane, in fact, in the direction of the galactic center. So it's possible that 1) its much younger than the majority of globulars in the galactic halo or 2) its exposed to the dust and gas of the galactic plane, and so still has star formation going on. On the other hand, all globulars must over the ages pass through the plane, and so probably do experience a relatively brief period of star formation in their outer regions. Stop me before my adlibbing gets me into REAL trouble. John R. Peterson _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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LCROSS media notes
by Canopus56 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

A. LRO and LCROSS were featured on NPR's Science Friday today June 12 http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200906121 B. There is a new (6-10) informative press package on the LCROSS Mission on the NASA LCROSS Main Page http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LCROSS/news/index.html C. The Observation Campaign Page has been expanded http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/observation.htm D. Monday June 15 1pm EDT news conference http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LCROSS/main/rss_feed_collection_archive_1… ============== LRO/LCROSS Launch Moves Forward Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:08:39 AM MDT The launch and mission teams for the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Spacecraft missions met on Wednesday in Florida for the Flight Readiness Review, or FRR. The teams announced that there are no major issues or concerns to hamper launch at this time. Final spacecraft closeouts are underway at the launch pad and countdown dress rehearsal activities are planned for all day Thursday. A Launch Readiness Review, or LRR, is scheduled for Monday at 9 a.m. EDT. A prelaunch news conference will be held after the LRR and is planned for 1 p.m. EDT. The briefing will be broadcast live from the news center at NASA's Kennedy Space Center on NASA TV. ============== E. Tuesday June 16 11EDT (15UT) http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/webcast.htm LCROSS Lunar Impactor Mission For your calendar: For those who have access to the internet, join us for a Launch Minus One (June 16) webcast where we’ll introduce you to some of these crucial participants and will provide you with information on how you too may become involved. Tuesday, June 16 @ 11:00 am EDT (8 am PDT, and 1500 GMT) Live from the Kennedy Space Center over the Internet (http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/webcast.htm) F. Wednesday June 17 - Press Release (6-10) listing day of launch (6-17) coverage M09-58 http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2009/M09-58.html (From the LCROSS Facebook page) G. Added a new links page to the google group LCROSS Observation Group pages with NASA website and media links http://groups.google.com/group/lcross_observation/web/links Clear Skies - Kurt

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Brief sun session with the PST today
by Chuck Hards 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

I managed about 30 minutes of solar observing this afternoon, before the clouds rolled back in. Still featureless, even in H-a. Just a little surface mottling, no prominences that I could detect. A real mount is going to be vast improvement over my simple pan-tilt tripod head. BTW, if anyone is contemplating purchasing a new PST, don't pay the going rate which is $599 (Orion and others). I got mine recently from Woodland Hills Camera on-sale for $499 (and free shipping!), *and* they included a free 10mm eyepiece *AND* a monochrome (B&W) Meade Electronic Eyepiece- which right now is a lot more fun to experiment with than the PST, lol. I have a 7" LCD flatscreen monitor that works perfectly with the Electronic Eyepiece. The sale *may *still be going-on but I haven't checked. The PST comes with a 20mm K eyepiece, stock.

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Boy hit by meteorite
by Dale Hooper 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20090612/sc_space/boyhitbymeteorite

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Moon from 21 km up
by Patrick Wiggins 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

Some nice pictures from the JAXA mission currently orbiting the Moon at VERY low altitude: http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2009/06/kaguya-at-perilune.html patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22's Blue Stars (continued)
by John R. Peterson 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

Unlike most globulars, M22 is in the galactic plane, in fact, in the direction of the galactic center. So it's possible that 1) its much younger than the majority of globulars in the galactic halo or 2) its exposed to the dust and gas of the galactic plane, and so still has star formation going on. On the other hand, all globulars must over the ages pass through the plane, and so probably do experience a relatively brief period of star formation in their outer regions. Stop me before my adlibbing gets me into REAL trouble. John R. Peterson

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23
by Joe Bauman 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

A 32" RC! That's a terrific telescope and a terrific image. Thanks, I don't think the color of my image is so far off now. Best wishes, Joe --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Tyler Allred <tylerallred(a)earthlink.net> wrote: From: Tyler Allred <tylerallred(a)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 2:19 PM Joe, The finest image I have seen of M22 is at this link on Robert Gendler's gallery. http://www.robgendlerastropics.com/M22JM.html This image is a joint effort between Robert and Jim Misti. It was taken with a 32" RC scope and an STL11000 camera. The image is simply amazing. As you can see, there are many yellow stars, but the blue ones are clearly present as well. I sure would like to get some imaging time with that scope! :) Cheers, Tyler _____________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:04 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 This is very interesting to me. I'm wondering if anyone would like to play with my original images of M22 and see if they can figure out what sort of adjustments they should have, if any. If so, write me a note and I'll put together a package of the relevant exposures. Thanks, Joe --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Don J. Colton <djcolton(a)piol.com> wrote: From: Don J. Colton <djcolton(a)piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 10:00 AM See CCD image of M22 at http://www.jburnell.com/STL11000/M22LRGB.jpg You will need to magnify it but many of the stars are reddish. See color image of M80 at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/A_Swarm_of_Ancient_Stars_ -_GPN-2000-000930.jpg The color magnitude diagram of M 22 http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1959AJ.....64...28A shows a lot of stars with a .9 color index which should appear yellow. There are, however, as significant number of stars with a color index of about .1 -.3 which will look blue to white to green. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:26 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 Hi John, No, actually I was referring to my own photo that showed a lot of blue stars at the core of M22. I have been trying to figure why they look blue. It could be that I processed the color erroneously, or maybe the dawn that was breaking made the blue in the sky show up more -- I really don't know. Or maybe M22 just happens to have a lot of blue stars in it. I'm baffled, frankly, and I can't wait to get out when the cluster is higher, and the night is truly dark, and try it again. Best wishes, Joe --- On Thu, 6/11/09, John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> wrote: From: John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 5:21 PM > >Joe, take a look at this: > >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/globular_clusters.html > >On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > Joe, were you referencing the APOD globular that had a lot of blue stars (APOD 2004 Oct 14, "Glimpse of a Globular Star Cluster)? That's a false color infrared photo, so blue probably just refers to short wavelength IR. Chuck said it all: The more massive a star, the hotter (i.e., more blue) it burns and so the shorter its life. For this reason, globulars are almost entirely composed of lower mass, older stars, mainly because they don't have much in the way of star-forming dust and gas. And that's because they're outside of the disk of galaxies. It's in the disk, specifically in the spiral arms, where star formation occurs. John R. Peterson >> This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all >> globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as >> old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe >> >> > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:38:23 -0600 >From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> >To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My new solar mount setup >Message-ID: > <2541d8030906111138n611656bv93a0e21b91f5f67b(a)mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Kurt , does your own PST display ghost images near the edge of the FOV? Did >you buy yours new, or used? > > > _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23
by Joe Bauman 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

This is very interesting to me. I'm wondering if anyone would like to play with my original images of M22 and see if they can figure out what sort of adjustments they should have, if any. If so, write me a note and I'll put together a package of the relevant exposures. Thanks, Joe --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Don J. Colton <djcolton(a)piol.com> wrote: From: Don J. Colton <djcolton(a)piol.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 10:00 AM See CCD image of M22 at http://www.jburnell.com/STL11000/M22LRGB.jpg You will need to magnify it but many of the stars are reddish. See color image of M80 at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/A_Swarm_of_Ancient_Stars_ -_GPN-2000-000930.jpg The color magnitude diagram of M 22 http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1959AJ.....64...28A shows a lot of stars with a .9 color index which should appear yellow. There are, however, as significant number of stars with a color index of about .1 -.3 which will look blue to white to green. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:26 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 Hi John, No, actually I was referring to my own photo that showed a lot of blue stars at the core of M22. I have been trying to figure why they look blue. It could be that I processed the color erroneously, or maybe the dawn that was breaking made the blue in the sky show up more -- I really don't know. Or maybe M22 just happens to have a lot of blue stars in it. I'm baffled, frankly, and I can't wait to get out when the cluster is higher, and the night is truly dark, and try it again. Best wishes, Joe --- On Thu, 6/11/09, John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> wrote: From: John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 5:21 PM > >Joe, take a look at this: > >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/globular_clusters.html > >On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > Joe, were you referencing the APOD globular that had a lot of blue stars (APOD 2004 Oct 14, "Glimpse of a Globular Star Cluster)? That's a false color infrared photo, so blue probably just refers to short wavelength IR. Chuck said it all: The more massive a star, the hotter (i.e., more blue) it burns and so the shorter its life. For this reason, globulars are almost entirely composed of lower mass, older stars, mainly because they don't have much in the way of star-forming dust and gas. And that's because they're outside of the disk of galaxies. It's in the disk, specifically in the spiral arms, where star formation occurs. John R. Peterson >> This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all >> globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as >> old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe >> >> > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:38:23 -0600 >From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> >To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My new solar mount setup >Message-ID: > <2541d8030906111138n611656bv93a0e21b91f5f67b(a)mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Kurt , does your own PST display ghost images near the edge of the FOV? Did >you buy yours new, or used? > > > _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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