August 2005 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

New Image Posted - M11 Wild Duck Cluster
by Tyler Allred 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

Hi all. I am hesitant to interrupt the important discussions about ID with a post that is directly related to astronomy, but I am going to risk it! :-) I just added an image of M11, the Wild Duck Cluster, to my gallery. This cluster is located in an area of the sky that is incredibly rich in background stars. In fact, the background stars almost overwhelm the cluster itself, but I still like the image. The star colors are interesting, especially the large yellow star near the bottom of the image. This image was taken during my recent trip to Wolf Creek, between the clouds. Here is the link to the thumbnail: http://www.utahastronomy.com/album16/Utah_Asronomy_M11_Wild_Duck Click the thumbnail for the larger version (if you dare). I warn you..... the image has lots-O-stars! I hope someone enjoys the image as much as I have enjoyed processing it. Cheers, Tyler

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Wired?
by Michael Carnes 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

>Anyone heard of some magazine called Wired? Yeah, it's been around for a while. It started out as an oh-so-hip magazine for the net-savvy. Since the net bubble popped a few years ago, it's moved to a bit more general sort of plugged-in magazine, but I haven't seen it in a while. I don't think a writeup in Wired will detract from the hard science you conducted with the ball drop.

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] What is to be taught in our schools?
by Michael Carnes 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

Well said Kurt. Maybe a couple more WHAMs will make sure the horse is dead. > WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! > (Sorry, just beating a dead horse here) In reference to Aaron's object-oriented design remark, I'll say this: I've done object-oriented design for many years as a software designer. In a colloquial sense, I've never made software with nipples. More strictly speaking, I've never designed objects with unnecessary or vestigial features. Object-oriented design means that you share common traits and make special cases where necessary. An object-oriented human might have a pair of legs as a common trait and then place the, 'er, 'um, naughty bits only where necessary. Michael

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Gravity
by Michael Carnes 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

>Ok, then how much mass would be required for them to attract each other? Same answer. The influence of any mass is universe-wide, but not instantaneous (speed of light). Of course in the real universe there are other forces at play, like solar wind, the gravity of other bodies, etc. So it would actually be very difficult to observe. Consider your own mass as the observer. >Also, if an astronaut could remain motionless, would the gravitational force >from the space station pull him in? If motionless, then the earth would pull them both in rather more quickly.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Gravity
by Michael Carnes 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

Assuming you could put the objects in proximity without leaving them in motion, any mass at all would do. Now of course there are repulsive forces from electron to electron, but assuming you've got neutrons, a pair ought to do you. You'll need tweezers. --- >I have a question concerning gravity. Suppose I could do an experiment in >space. Approximately how much mass would each of two identical objects >require in order that if they were placed next to each other their mutual force of >gravity would hold them together. >Mike Bailey

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] ID article
by Michael Carnes 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

All scientists--being human--have expectations of an outcome. Sometimes they're correct and sometimes not. But they do the experiments. This is quite different from the ID folks who just complain "it's too complex" and then stifle the effort to find out. >The purpose is to see if your prediction is in fact correct or if it's not. You don't know for sure until you do the >investigating and experimenting. >diveboss(a)xmission.com wrote: >If you announce that you are going to investigate something, and then >immediately predict the outcome, then what's the purpose of the >investigation? Why waste the money?

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Gravity
by Olhomorto＠aol.com 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

I have a question concerning gravity. Suppose I could do an experiment in space. Approximately how much mass would each of two identical objects require in order that if they were placed next to each other their mutual force of gravity would hold them together. Mike Bailey

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] What is to be taught in our schools?
by Lambert, Aaron 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! (Sorry, just beating a dead horse here) WHAM! WHAM! WHAM! Quoted bits are from Canopus56(Kurt). Natural selection asks: > Does the randomly created mutation result > in a increased survival benefit to the organism that > increases the probability the organism will > reproduce?" > One of the main problems I have with the theory of an > intelligent agent driving evolution is that if there > is designer - he's got to be one of the worst > engineers in recorded history. Some examples include: > > > A) Men have nipples but don't nurse children. How are male nipples a survival benefit? To me as a software designer, this is evidence of object-oriented design. The designer is obviously re-using a base plan that works and modifying it slightly. :) > B) Women give birth by a uterus and do not lay eggs. > Why would a purposeful designer select the mammalian > uterus as a design for human reproduction? Without > significant medical support the odds of death and/or > dehabilitating infection are quite high due to the > placenta tearing away form the uterine wall. Wouldn't > a purposeful designer have simply stuck with egg - a > design that inherently has much lower risks associated > with childbirth? Again, this seems to be an argument against survivability. So it could not possibly have evolved that way, right? This is all mostly tongue-in-cheek, but the case just does not seem to be as open-and-shut to me as it does to others here. I think we all will just have to agree to disagree. There is a lot of data out there that can be interpreted many ways. This question of Kurt's is very good: > 1) What are the key components of the theory of > intelligent design that proponents want taught in Utah > public secondary schools? We should all probably understand what is actually being proposed before we dismiss or endorse it. I doubt if there are many on this list who have read the curriculum proposed for ID. I know I haven't. I just don't worry about it that much. I have always been fond of Mark Twain's saying, "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." If all that a kid learns is from the public school system, he or she has more problems than just science deficiency. :) Aaron

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Should NASA deflect asteriod MN2004?
by daniel turner 15 Aug '05

15 Aug '05

What causes the most destruction from a nuclear bomb on earth is the blast wave traveling through the atmosphere. No atmosphere, no blast wave. So the bomb on the surface or nearby would only have the effect of from the light of the fireball. This would just put a fine pottery glaze on a silicate rich asteroid. What you need is for Bruce Willis to drill a hole to the center of the asteroid and seal the shaft before detonation. This would cause the formation of a plasma gas whose pressure would burst the asteroid like cherry bomb in a cantaloupe. Those who have done THAT experiment find that you end up with large chunks instead of small pieces. So you would end trade one large problem for several smaller problems the biggest of which could be half of the original asteroid. We need another plan. DT ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Should NASA deflect asteriod MN2004?
by Canopus56 14 Aug '05

14 Aug '05

An interesting article on a proposal to have NASA place a radio tracking beacon on an asteriod that is 320m in diameter with a high probability of striking the Earth in 2029. The purpose of the beacon would be better establish the asteriod's orbital parameters in order to decide if it should be deflected. http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=17666 P.S. - Patrick, I didn't see this one flow through your news emailer. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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