December 2004 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Comet tail?
by Patrick Wiggins 26 Dec '04

26 Dec '04

Anyone else see a fairly obvious tail on the comet tonight? Despite the proximity of the nearly full Moon I was able to easily spot the comet with 7x35 binos and was some surprised to see what looked like a faint but visible tail a couple of degrees long. I'd hoped to get some images tonight only to roll the roof off my observatory and see the sky had clouded over. Grumble... Patrick

3 2

Re: [Utah-astronomy] remote versus dark site. the difference is important.
by paw＠trilobyte.net 25 Dec '04

25 Dec '04

Daniel Turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> wrote : > A bit of terminology needs to be cleared up here. > Patrick stated that the ÂremoteÂ site will be a site > for a remote controlled telescope that would be run by > users from their homes using internet access. That was true following my initial conversation with the guy. However, after this discussion got started I called him back and found he has no problem with also having a building(s) in which members could store equipment and then travel to the site and use it. Patrick ___________________________________ NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net

1 0

remote versus dark site. the difference is important.
by daniel turner 25 Dec '04

25 Dec '04

A bit of terminology needs to be cleared up here. Patrick stated that the remote site will be a site for a remote controlled telescope that would be run by users from their homes using internet access. He specifically said that members would NOT be welcome to drive up there and set up their own telescopes. The term remote telescope is now becoming common and some people even offer the use of their remote telescope for a fee to Internet users. I believe I have seen $100 a night mentioned. But this could go down as market forces come into play. So a REMOTE site is not the same concept as the SLAS DARK site in terms of what you can and cannot do. That said, I would question an assertion that a site is dark unless someone with a astronomical point of view has been there (at night) and seen it to be sure. Caveat Emptor. The Gravel Quarry is not very dark on the nights that the Oakley Rodeo facility has their lights turned on, but that seems to not happen often. So a site survey would have to be more thorough than just one look on one night. Lastly, if the road is paved and facilities are already installed, how dark will it be after the housing developments have been built within the next five years. I mean those facilities are there because someone is PLANNING on something being built in the vicinity. Jackrabbits do not need highs-peed Internet access yet, I dont think. Clear skies DT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

Re: Dark Site Support at SLAS for Chuck
by paw＠trilobyte.net 25 Dec '04

25 Dec '04

Hi Kim, The offer was as I outlined below. I noted in an earlier email if there was a group of folks serious enough to be willing to help with the project *and* invest a fair chunk 'O change the guy would like to have a meeting. It could be that most missed the post or maybe there's really not that much interest. Whatever the reason there were very few replies. Patrick Kim Hyatt <kimharch(a)msn.com> wrote : > Patrick, I guess I missed the offer from the owner of a local ISP to which you > referred. Could you repeat what the offer was, or can those of us who might be > interested discuss offsite? > > Kim Hyatt Architect > 1849 East 1300 South > Salt Lake City, Utah 84108 > 801.631.5228 > kimharch(a)msn.com > > serius est quam cogitas > The most recent offer for a dark sky site is not the one from Dwight > Ball. The most recent one was posted here last week when I reported > that the owner of a local ISP has several potential remote sites around > the state with very dark skies, power, road access, secure concrete > structures and high speed internet. I noted he's offering the land and > is willing to invest serious money in return for money and expertise > from those willing to buy into the project. ___________________________________ NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net

1 0

Happy birthday Sir Isaac / Sunset later
by Patrick Wiggins 25 Dec '04

25 Dec '04

Happy birthday Isaac Newton, born this day in 1642. Or was it 4 January 1643? When Newton was born England was still clinging desperately to the Julian calendar while much of the rest of the world had long since moved on to the the Gregorian calendar (hmmm, reminds me of this county clinging to the old non-metric measures...). So, take your pick. The Julians can celebrate today while the Gregorians can wait until the 4th of next month. On another topic, I watched the Sun set yesterday at 16:47, a full 5 minutes later than the earliest sunset back on the 3rd. Patrick

1 0

Dark Site Support at SLAS for Chuck.
by Nathaniel Goodman 25 Dec '04

25 Dec '04

Chuck asked about SLAS support for a dark sky site. Here is my brief recap of the history of this, unfortunately I don't recall the dates. It was at one of the Holiday Parties held at Patrick's house that some of us got together and discussed how nice it would be if SLAS had a dark sky site like some of the clubs in California Polaris comes to mind. So later that week if I rember correctly three of us Patrick, myself and Deloy Pierce set off on a night time drive to see of there were Dark Sites within an hours drive from SLC & Stansbury. We drove out to Dell and then down a dirt road going towards the boundry of the Test & Trainning Range, and also on the road thru Skull Valley area. Our conclusion, there wasn't quite anything there, but that a committe should be formed to study this. A SLAS Dark Sky Committeee was formed after the idea was brought up at a montly meeting. Dave Chamberlain was appointed head. This committee met regularly one Saturday a month at the old JB'S Restaurant now a Korean Barbacue on 7th E. in SLC. At the same time this occurred the membership present at a meeting was poled and they approved fundraising, so Sue Chamberlain Dave's wife took over this function. A large collection Jar was put out at all club meetings for members to donate what they could,this jar was also at public star parties. I believe this occurred for about 2 seasons. Meanwhile the committee had reached the point of beginning to search for land that could be leased or purchased for a secure site, Kim Hyatt (on the committee) drew up some prelim drawings of what a facility might look like. At about this time a Donor (who shall remain nameless) in this recounting, gave a large amount of money to be used for Dark Sky . Then ALONG CAME SPOC. first we had to relocate the observatory and then under the able stewardship of Sig the move was transformed into the present SPOC II. In all the excitement and work on this other project Dark Sky languished and the donor claimed he had meant for his money to go to SPOC so when this money was re assigned into SPOC fund several Dark Sky Boosters Deloy in particular became very bent out of shape. If any of what I have posted needs correction others who have been involved can offer their own recollections. Chuck, there was once great support from SLAS Membership for a secure Dark Site. We blew our last offer of a Dark Site from Club Member Dwight Ball who has purchased Dark Sky land near I believe Payson and offered to let us use part of it for a SLAS DK. Sky site,in return for helping him improve his land. We turned him down I don't rember if anyone ever went to look at it . This offer came at the time that the Dark Site Funding was then transferred into the SLAS General Fund and the Dark Sky Site idea was considered Case Closed. A secure Dark Site would be nice but as a SLAS site, I really don't Know. NATO.

5 5

Drak Sky Site "Case Closed !"
by Nathaniel Goodman 25 Dec '04

25 Dec '04

The question was asked in this Forum was there support from SLAS membership for a Dark Sky Site. I should have replyed with just a simple yes there was instead of my rememberences of this Clouded in the Mists of Time. Anyway Case Closed. Lets move onto more relevent topics at hand like the correct spelling of Tooele not Toole as I spelled it the other night or AutoCross Racing like at Limerock ,Con.,Watkins Glen ,New York,or at the old Riverside Raceway in ,California. if thats the kind of Track Miller is planning then yes there will not be night races unless he wants to have a Le Mans 24 hr. style race which would require lights. I know however that any track built will as has been stated here has to have some type of security lighting for when it is closed, and for work areas, if the stories about Full Cutoff Fixtures at some of Miller's car Emporiums are true then that combined with the counties ordinances offer a ray of hope. I do feel though as several others have stated here that the larger problem at hand is too much growth and given the dominant church group here in Utah I doubt if there will ever be any way to push for ZPG (Zero Population Growth). Leaving religion out we must realize the the Tooele Grantsville area is now within the Wasatch Front Urban Commutter Bedroom Community Zone, the builders of Stansbury Terracore Corp. realized this ,but about a decade too soon. So SPOC II will definately be located under worse light polution even from correctly shielded fixtures sometime down the road. However as has been pointed out here already Water will be the biggest factor in the West and we ain't got enough of that to go around, but do we really want to return to the dark ages and live with no lights, power plants etc. I think not, you really can't go back in time so some wise compromises in the future will be necessary. Enough of my Blog-Like Rambelings.If it wasn't already way below zero even with some moon interference I would have considered going out and trying to find the Comet again. NATO.

2 1

Re: Dark Site
by Chuck Hards 24 Dec '04

24 Dec '04

Daniel Turner wrote: > The best investment for dark skies is a tank of > gasoline and drive to the boonies. > > Just go do it. Dan, you miss the point. A secure dark site means that you can leave equipment there and not have to haul it back and forth every time. Perhaps even erect an observatory and only polar-align once; leave the mount set-up. Maximize one's time if imaging. It's not the local residents we worry about, its the idiots, drunks, target-shooters and vandals, and yes they are out there even in the farthest-flung boonies. Others have mentioned what they would want additionally: Power, toilet facilities, warming or bunk room, etc. Things you can't haul around with you unless you have too much money. I'm glad you have an observing style that suits you, but one size doesn't fit all. BUT- I am also now convinced that a club-sponsored site is not a good idea, and the reason is obvious, don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner! Doh! Anyone interested in a possible private co-op arraingement contact me off-list. If there are enough of us, lets get together after the holidays and research prices, locations, etc., and see where it leads. I don't want to keep knotting the shorts of SLASers so lets just take it off their radar. The Polaris club has been cited here before as a model, if time permits in coming weeks I'll dig out what I have on that association. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

2 2

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Dark Site
by astrodeb＠charter.net 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

I have a friend that bought an acre piece of land just past the Lava Point turnoff near the Kolob Terrece area of Zion National Park. What is nice about the site is that it is 8000-9000 ft in elevation, it is gated with a lock on the gate, and the property is above Kolob Reservoir road so car lights are not a problem. What is also nice about the site is besides being next to a national park, there is no electricity for the surrounding cabins. This means no annoying light pollution from nearby cabins. I bring my own portable Kendrick battery pack to power my fan or to power my mount. My friend has one concrete pad there and plans to put a few more pads in the future. It may be benificial in the future to haul a porta-pottie up there next spring. I can leave my telescope up there for a few days if I desire although I think I would keep an eye on it once in a while. The place is secure but you never know about animals, bugs, or birds. I think not having electricity up there is more of an advantage than a disadvantage. I'll take pictures when I get up there later in the spring. Debbie > > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > Date: 2004/12/23 Thu AM 10:55:09 MST > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Dark Site > > Daniel Turner wrote: > > > The best investment for dark skies is a tank of > > gasoline and drive to the boonies. > > > > Just go do it. > > Dan, you miss the point. A secure dark site means > that you can leave equipment there and not have to > haul it back and forth every time. Perhaps even erect > an observatory and only polar-align once; leave the > mount set-up. Maximize one's time if imaging. It's > not the local residents we worry about, its the > idiots, drunks, target-shooters and vandals, and yes > they are out there even in the farthest-flung > boonies. Others have mentioned what they would want > additionally: Power, toilet facilities, warming or > bunk room, etc. Things you can't haul around with you > unless you have too much money. I'm glad you have an > observing style that suits you, but one size doesn't > fit all. > > BUT- > > I am also now convinced that a club-sponsored site is > not a good idea, and the reason is obvious, don't know > why it didn't occur to me sooner! Doh! > > Anyone interested in a possible private co-op > arraingement contact me off-list. If there are > enough of us, lets get together after the holidays and > research prices, locations, etc., and see where it > leads. I don't want to keep knotting the shorts of > SLASers so lets just take it off their radar. The > Polaris club has been cited here before as a model, if > time permits in coming weeks I'll dig out what I have > on that association. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

1 0

Re: racetrack
by Chuck Hards 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

I have a feeling Patrick only got lip service. There will be lights in the parking lot, at least, who are they kidding? Security lighting, garage areas, concessions...spotlights in the sky, (it's owned by a car dealership tycoon, remember?) there will be acres of lights even if the track itself isn't lit. More billboards, small businesses will sprout-up around it such as gas-stations, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. And what about the construction phase itself? Will this summer be washed-out because of all-night construction lights as they race to open the place on-time? It's a Pandoras box. Go ahead and put a good spin on it if you want; roll over and believe whatever the government tells you. I can't see anything good, astronomically, about either the Walmart facility or the racetrack. I'm not bringing all this up in an attack on SPOC - I've said repeatedly that SPOC has years, maybe decades of use ahead of it. Heck, I'm not even an active member and really don't care what the club does with its money. I pay my dues and folks with more time on their hands than I give some of it back to the community, terrific arrangement. What I AM saying is that the skies over the Tooele valley are much worse than they were 25 years ago, are getting worse still, and at a much faster pace as time goes by. Any other position is undefendable. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

7 8