Hello all, The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water! A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem? Hope others are enjoying the sailing season! Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Hi Alex, Check out this backing plate for a Catalina 22 bow eye: https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-22/hull-deck/forward/plast... Don Casey’s Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual is a useful reference for the type of repair you are doing. I would probably do it from the outside, but grind away a lot of fiberglass, and the rebuild it, so there's no extra bulk/bulge when done. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 5:43:20 PM Subject: M_Boats: M15 bow repair Hello all, The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water! A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem? Hope others are enjoying the sailing season! Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
I put a bow eye in mine. Basically I cut a rectangular hole (with rounded corners) from the inside through the liner I think I used a dremel and a little "fatmax" close-quarters hacksaw which you can put in jig saw blades. Then I got the catalina 22 boweye plug which I had to cut down and a thick stainless 1/2 bow eye from seachoice (part 33730). As memory serves, the hull was fairly rounded on the inside and the trapezoidal plug wasn't a particularly good fit. Also I think Ioverdrilled the bow-eye holes and filled them again. I didn't do a very neat job on expoxying in the plug, but I seem to remember that the key was using silica thickener to keep it fromruinning. A lot dripped down as I was trying to get it in and I used some syringes to fill in from the top..It was pretty ugly, but it was definitely stuck in there. A "lot" of epoxy dripped down in the space between the outside and liner. I remember It was a pretty close fit with the bolt heads just about hitting the liner but not quite. Then I made a little "lip" on the inside with some fr4 and epoxied back in the rectangular piece. On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote: Hello all, The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water! A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem? Hope others are enjoying the sailing season! Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Thanks Tyler and Lawrence- just ordered Casey's book (looks like a good investment for the long haul despite the $s!) and since the West folks are recommending reinforcing from both sides, will charge ahead with adding a bow eye (if anyone has a particular eye style/size/placement to recommend, do let me know). Now to clean up the old beater tin can powerboat so we can get on the water this weekend while the Monty awaits my getting up the courage to take the dremel tool to her beautiful hull.... Alex On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 5:29 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I put a bow eye in mine. Basically I cut a rectangular hole (with rounded corners) from the inside through the liner I think I used a dremel and a little "fatmax" close-quarters hacksaw which you can put in jig saw blades. Then I got the catalina 22 boweye plug which I had to cut down and a thick stainless 1/2 bow eye from seachoice (part 33730). As memory serves, the hull was fairly rounded on the inside and the trapezoidal plug wasn't a particularly good fit. Also I think Ioverdrilled the bow-eye holes and filled them again.
I didn't do a very neat job on expoxying in the plug, but I seem to remember that the key was using silica thickener to keep it fromruinning. A lot dripped down as I was trying to get it in and I used some syringes to fill in from the top..It was pretty ugly, but it was definitely stuck in there. A "lot" of epoxy dripped down in the space between the outside and liner.
I remember It was a pretty close fit with the bolt heads just about hitting the liner but not quite.
Then I made a little "lip" on the inside with some fr4 and epoxied back in the rectangular piece.
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Alex: for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows). I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing? :: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Dave, thanks for looking at that. Re hearing noises, I have not, but I do think it has grown since I first noticed it, likely in a romping 20 knot /3' chop sail where I doubt I would have heard anything. I have not seen water through the crack between liner and deck (though coloring makes me wonder if it has seeped a touch and bolts behind are rusted) but I do see water under the v-berth (you may remember my posts about rust in the ballast lump down there a year ago). When I next pull her out of the shop I'll do a hose test, but that's the only place I imagine that water coming from. Have to admit I'm slightly intimidated by taking dremel to hull- wish our inland burb had a good boat shop and/or some boatyard mentors! Alex On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows).
I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing?
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my
M15
and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Alex: I'm just not seeing, stated after looking at pictures, there being a failure in that location. That area is 1/2"+ of fiberglass and bonding compound. There area is also 'backed' by the bowplate that is thru-bolting the hull/deck joint. Next there is no connection between the hull liner and the bow. That interior joint you pictured isn't structural. It is aesthetic to hide the gap between the edge of the liner and underside (interior) of the deck. If there was a failure of the hull deck joint there would be cracking all along the outer gel coat edge and along the bonding putty within the joint. You would see gaps in the bonding putty and maybe pieced falling out. I've seen such damage on a M15 that was squeezed between two much larger boats. (The joint still didn't fail ... it just didn't look nicely finished). Jerry designed an extremely strong joint - besides it being bonded it is thru bolted every few inches along the port and starboard side (the only section of hull/deck joint without this thru-bolting is the transom). I think you are seeing cracked gel coat when looking up into the joint at the point of the bow between the two nuts. Maybe the gel coat was applied to thickly (making it brittle) or the nuts were tightened just a bit to much? I doubt the fiberglass and bonding putty are damaged. You wrote that fastener(s) were rusting. Fasteners holding what? The bow plate fasteners are thru the hull/deck joint. The bow cleat? :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:13 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, thanks for looking at that. Re hearing noises, I have not, but I do think it has grown since I first noticed it, likely in a romping 20 knot /3' chop sail where I doubt I would have heard anything. I have not seen water through the crack between liner and deck (though coloring makes me wonder if it has seeped a touch and bolts behind are rusted) but I do see water under the v-berth (you may remember my posts about rust in the ballast lump down there a year ago). When I next pull her out of the shop I'll do a hose test, but that's the only place I imagine that water coming from. Have to admit I'm slightly intimidated by taking dremel to hull- wish our inland burb had a good boat shop and/or some boatyard mentors!
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows).
I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing?
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my
M15
and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Thanks Dave! I wasn’t thinking it was a failure of the hull deck joint, which as you emphasize, is strong as all heck. I was thinking it was a crack through the hull below the joint, based on the water I’ve found under the v berth and the way the cracks extend back 9” on either side of the bow, and are raised enough I can get a fingernail under the edge and follow it back (not just a flat stress crack). So last night I set out to prove you wrong. After a half hour with a hose pointed right at the crack, and then going wild with duct tape, a plywood companionway board cut to take the blower end of my shop vac and a ton of soapy water (Don Casey’s method of pressurizing the whole interior to detect leaks), I found, well, nothing- or at least nothing but a tiny bubbling spot on the cabin window that proved the method does find even minuscule leaks if they are there. Now that I understand where the liner ends and the nature of the filler, I can also see that if the deck had lifted even just in moments, I’d be seeing cracks in the interior filler. I think I am ready to admit making a mountain out of a mole hill, and get on the water, and only reworry if I see cracks extend. The only thing still nagging me it the way I can get my fingernail under the long cracks and follow them. With cracks in thick gelcoat, is it normal for one edge to displace (it’s like a mini geologic fault, with one side up thrust)? I can explain the first time I found lots of water under the v berth by zealous grandkids spraying away as they helped granddad get the boat ready to sell. But the other times I found just a little moisture- would that be condensation from warm air against cold hull? Looking forward to sailing, and have learned a ton about fiberglass repair and how this Boat is put together even just planning a repair- so if that crack does expand enough to worry me again, I’ve got a strategy! Thanks all for the input. Alex On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:59 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
I'm just not seeing, stated after looking at pictures, there being a failure in that location. That area is 1/2"+ of fiberglass and bonding compound. There area is also 'backed' by the bowplate that is thru-bolting the hull/deck joint.
Next there is no connection between the hull liner and the bow. That interior joint you pictured isn't structural. It is aesthetic to hide the gap between the edge of the liner and underside (interior) of the deck.
If there was a failure of the hull deck joint there would be cracking all along the outer gel coat edge and along the bonding putty within the joint. You would see gaps in the bonding putty and maybe pieced falling out. I've seen such damage on a M15 that was squeezed between two much larger boats. (The joint still didn't fail ... it just didn't look nicely finished).
Jerry designed an extremely strong joint - besides it being bonded it is thru bolted every few inches along the port and starboard side (the only section of hull/deck joint without this thru-bolting is the transom).
I think you are seeing cracked gel coat when looking up into the joint at the point of the bow between the two nuts. Maybe the gel coat was applied to thickly (making it brittle) or the nuts were tightened just a bit to much? I doubt the fiberglass and bonding putty are damaged.
You wrote that fastener(s) were rusting. Fasteners holding what? The bow plate fasteners are thru the hull/deck joint. The bow cleat?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:13 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, thanks for looking at that. Re hearing noises, I have not, but I do think it has grown since I first noticed it, likely in a romping 20 knot /3' chop sail where I doubt I would have heard anything. I have not seen water through the crack between liner and deck (though coloring makes me wonder if it has seeped a touch and bolts behind are rusted) but I do see water under the v-berth (you may remember my posts about rust in the ballast lump down there a year ago). When I next pull her out of the shop I'll do a hose test, but that's the only place I imagine that water coming from. Have to admit I'm slightly intimidated by taking dremel to hull- wish our inland burb had a good boat shop and/or some boatyard mentors!
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows).
I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing?
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of
my M15
and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
On 6/24/20 10:10 AM, Alex Conley wrote: ...
I can explain the first time I found lots of water under the v berth by zealous grandkids spraying away as they helped granddad get the boat ready to sell. But the other times I found just a little moisture- would that be condensation from warm air against cold hull?
Could be condensation, if you're in a climate that promotes that. If it rained on the boat, and/or you washed it down, and then you find a bit of water inside, there could be small leaks from through-deck fittings (pulpit, cleats, blocks, mast step, etc. - basically anything that has a bolt or screw penetrating the deck). cheers, John
Looking forward to sailing, and have learned a ton about fiberglass repair and how this Boat is put together even just planning a repair- so if that crack does expand enough to worry me again, I’ve got a strategy!
Thanks all for the input.
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:59 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
I'm just not seeing, stated after looking at pictures, there being a failure in that location. That area is 1/2"+ of fiberglass and bonding compound. There area is also 'backed' by the bowplate that is thru-bolting the hull/deck joint.
Next there is no connection between the hull liner and the bow. That interior joint you pictured isn't structural. It is aesthetic to hide the gap between the edge of the liner and underside (interior) of the deck.
If there was a failure of the hull deck joint there would be cracking all along the outer gel coat edge and along the bonding putty within the joint. You would see gaps in the bonding putty and maybe pieced falling out. I've seen such damage on a M15 that was squeezed between two much larger boats. (The joint still didn't fail ... it just didn't look nicely finished).
Jerry designed an extremely strong joint - besides it being bonded it is thru bolted every few inches along the port and starboard side (the only section of hull/deck joint without this thru-bolting is the transom).
I think you are seeing cracked gel coat when looking up into the joint at the point of the bow between the two nuts. Maybe the gel coat was applied to thickly (making it brittle) or the nuts were tightened just a bit to much? I doubt the fiberglass and bonding putty are damaged.
You wrote that fastener(s) were rusting. Fasteners holding what? The bow plate fasteners are thru the hull/deck joint. The bow cleat?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:13 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, thanks for looking at that. Re hearing noises, I have not, but I do think it has grown since I first noticed it, likely in a romping 20 knot /3' chop sail where I doubt I would have heard anything. I have not seen water through the crack between liner and deck (though coloring makes me wonder if it has seeped a touch and bolts behind are rusted) but I do see water under the v-berth (you may remember my posts about rust in the ballast lump down there a year ago). When I next pull her out of the shop I'll do a hose test, but that's the only place I imagine that water coming from. Have to admit I'm slightly intimidated by taking dremel to hull- wish our inland burb had a good boat shop and/or some boatyard mentors!
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows).
I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing?
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of
my M15
and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John- there is quite a bit to discuss on this- if you'll send me your ph # and a good tome t9 call, incl time zone, i'd be happy to give you a call. Probably best to PM me at jmbn1@outlook.com. jerry ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces+jmbn1=outlook.com@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 10:17 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 bow repair On 6/24/20 10:10 AM, Alex Conley wrote: ...
I can explain the first time I found lots of water under the v berth by zealous grandkids spraying away as they helped granddad get the boat ready to sell. But the other times I found just a little moisture- would that be condensation from warm air against cold hull?
Could be condensation, if you're in a climate that promotes that. If it rained on the boat, and/or you washed it down, and then you find a bit of water inside, there could be small leaks from through-deck fittings (pulpit, cleats, blocks, mast step, etc. - basically anything that has a bolt or screw penetrating the deck). cheers, John
Looking forward to sailing, and have learned a ton about fiberglass repair and how this Boat is put together even just planning a repair- so if that crack does expand enough to worry me again, I’ve got a strategy!
Thanks all for the input.
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:59 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
I'm just not seeing, stated after looking at pictures, there being a failure in that location. That area is 1/2"+ of fiberglass and bonding compound. There area is also 'backed' by the bowplate that is thru-bolting the hull/deck joint.
Next there is no connection between the hull liner and the bow. That interior joint you pictured isn't structural. It is aesthetic to hide the gap between the edge of the liner and underside (interior) of the deck.
If there was a failure of the hull deck joint there would be cracking all along the outer gel coat edge and along the bonding putty within the joint. You would see gaps in the bonding putty and maybe pieced falling out. I've seen such damage on a M15 that was squeezed between two much larger boats. (The joint still didn't fail ... it just didn't look nicely finished).
Jerry designed an extremely strong joint - besides it being bonded it is thru bolted every few inches along the port and starboard side (the only section of hull/deck joint without this thru-bolting is the transom).
I think you are seeing cracked gel coat when looking up into the joint at the point of the bow between the two nuts. Maybe the gel coat was applied to thickly (making it brittle) or the nuts were tightened just a bit to much? I doubt the fiberglass and bonding putty are damaged.
You wrote that fastener(s) were rusting. Fasteners holding what? The bow plate fasteners are thru the hull/deck joint. The bow cleat?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:13 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave, thanks for looking at that. Re hearing noises, I have not, but I do think it has grown since I first noticed it, likely in a romping 20 knot /3' chop sail where I doubt I would have heard anything. I have not seen water through the crack between liner and deck (though coloring makes me wonder if it has seeped a touch and bolts behind are rusted) but I do see water under the v-berth (you may remember my posts about rust in the ballast lump down there a year ago). When I next pull her out of the shop I'll do a hose test, but that's the only place I imagine that water coming from. Have to admit I'm slightly intimidated by taking dremel to hull- wish our inland burb had a good boat shop and/or some boatyard mentors!
Alex
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Alex:
for the past week I have looked at your pictures and reread your email. yes, the crack in the cabin and external crack in the hull/deck joint 'lip' at the bow are separated by a couple of inches (as your graphic to West shows).
I have some questions - are you seeing any water passing through the crack in the thickened putty between the hull liner and the deck at the forward end of the vberth? have you found any water under the vberth? . Are you hearing creaking or cracking when sailing?
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.comf :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020, 5:44:03 PM PDT, Alex Conley < conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of
my M15
and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Alex: Send Jerry Montgomery a note and arrange a call! He knows more about building boats than everyone else on this list combined. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 3:22 PM jerry montgomery <jmbn1@outlook.com> wrote:
John- there is quite a bit to discuss on this- if you'll send me your ph # and a good tome t9 call, incl time zone, i'd be happy to give you a call. Probably best to PM me at jmbn1@outlook.com.
jerry
________________________________
On 6/24/20 10:10 AM, Alex Conley wrote: ...
I can explain the first time I found lots of water under the v berth by zealous grandkids spraying away as they helped granddad get the boat ready to sell. But the other times I found just a little moisture- would that be condensation from warm air against cold hull?
Looking forward to sailing, and have learned a ton about fiberglass repair and how this Boat is put together even just planning a repair- so if that crack does expand enough to worry me again, I’ve got a strategy!
Thanks all for the input.
Alex
Terry, just checking in re the recommendations we talked about. Looking forward to having them in hand so I can order stuff and have the courage to take the Drexel tool to my hull! Thanks for all the help, Alex On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 5:43 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
Forgive me, replied to the wrong email n cluttered all your inboxes! Listserv member faux pas... On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:50 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Terry,
just checking in re the recommendations we talked about. Looking forward to having them in hand so I can order stuff and have the courage to take the Drexel tool to my hull!
Thanks for all the help,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 5:43 PM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
The attached pdf gives a good overview of the crack in the bow of my M15 and my repair thoughts (I prepared it to send to one of the West System tech advisors). Any input and advice any of you have would be most welcome- I'm a newbie to fiberglass repair and I'm looking forward to getting this fixed so I too can get the boat in the water!
A secondary question- I'm actually starting to wonder if I should repair from inside. If I do open up the hull liner, is it worth adding a bow eye bolted through the stem? Has anyone retrofitted one and what would be the best way to install it? For those boats with one from the factory, how is it reinforced on the inside of the stem?
Hope others are enjoying the sailing season!
Alex Conley conley.alex@gmail.com
participants (6)
-
Alex Conley -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
jerry montgomery -
John Schinnerer -
Lawrence Winiarski