February 2013 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 steel ballast replacement.
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Hey Thomas Sean here... Thanks to all that responded for me indicating I was a bit tied up last week.....LOL.....I WAS!!! Things are getting back to normal now. Just replaced some steel ballast in my M17 flushdeck Sneakers this fall.....and of course I did a total replacement on "Dauntless" my M23 quite a few years back. The job is a grunt and fairly expensive. Unless you can get scrap lead...figure $1/lb for reclaimed lead shot. I completely encapsulated the shot in resin the way I do it so even if there ever is another fracture in the keel, there is nowhere for water to go. Pouring the resin in from the top leads to large voids of loose shot and open space for water should there be a leak....or at least that's what I found in both instances that I have repaired. On top of the lead purchase price...there is the polyester resin to encapsulate the lead in....and I used epoxy resin, cloth, and biaxial tape to close up the windows I had to create in the side of the keel to get the old resin out. It is not a cheap repair. Like someone referred to...take the time to find out how the water got in and fix it....and I would propose leaving the empty keel cavity open long enough to allow the laminate to dry out so as not to have future problems with blisters. This could take some time depending on how wet she is and what the Relative Humidity is in your area. Ours is often single digit so that helped me a lot. My advice would be this. Both boats I have done this to are rare versions of Monty's. There were only 20 23's built and less than half of that number of M17 flushdecks. That made them worthwhile to me to go through this process. If either was not a rare boat ...or a boat I was not attached to....I don't know that the process would have been worth it. It is a lot of work to do it correctly and definitely a financial investment into the boat that you are not too likely to recoup in resale price. I am back online....but back to work also. Feel free to email me if there is anything I can help with and good luck! S

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Re: M_Boats: removing a hole in the hull and deck to joint
by griemmolo2 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Connie When does old age overtake us? I am slated to pick up a M15 in the next 2 wks. &@ 80 with a bum knee I am having 2nd thougts. George Hitchhick on Marys tablet as laptop chrashed:-) Sent from Samsung tabletConbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:On 26-Feb-13 12:42 PM, Robbin Roddewig wrote: Hi Robbin, I too married a derelict CP16 in haste in Clearwater, FL, and then repented at leisure. The rudder on the CP16 was just a flat piece of aluminum sheet material, about 3/8th of an inch thick, as I recall. When I recognized that the CP16 was a miserable sailor - it refused to even think of going to windward - I quickly recognized that I had bought a bathtub toy, not a sail boat; dumped the CP16 as quickly as I could, and looked around for a better solution. What I found was the M15, and after lots of chit-chat with the M-Listers, who answered all my questions in great detail, and with lots of enthusiasm, I bought my M15, #400 sight-unseen, in Panama City, FL. After picking it up and towing it back to Connecticut,my first detailed inspection at home delighted me with what I had bought, and it only got better and better the longer we owned it. For just the Admirable and myself, the M15 was ideal, and we did a lot of trailering; sailing; and exploring in it. Jerry designed and built a masterpiece. I only wish we were still able to sail our "LEPPO" , but old age finally forced us to give up our wonderful sport of sailing. Ciao, Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO > Hi Tom, > my only experience was the Compac 16 that had a rather poor rudder. > Just a piece of sheet metal from what I remember of the stock rudder. > The boat had such issues pointing that I was desperate to improve it > any way I could. For the CP-16 the improvement was very noticable. > For the M boats I think the rudder shape is very good so all I would > be looking for from Ida would be the kick up function without doing > surgery to my Mahogany rudder. > > Robbin > > On 2/26/2013 10:12 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >> Hi Robbin >> I too am thinking "Isa rudder". Have also read the hype about them, >> etc. >> In your experience do they improve the handling/speed at all much less >> turning a sailboat into something you can water ski behind? I think they >> quote M-17 rudders at something around $650. >> Regards, >> Tom >> >> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Robbin Roddewig < >> robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi Tom, >>> my pleasure posting the pictures. The M-10 is very very similar to the >>> Fatty Knees so you might find some info there since they are still in >>> production, but the M-10 has a dagger board that you lift in and out >>> of the >>> dagger board slot in the hull. I would estimate that with the >>> dagger board >>> up the M-10 draws well less than a foot, probably six inches. It has no >>> keel to speak of, only a formed keel at the back of the hull to help it >>> track while rowing etc. >>> The rudder arrangement on the M-23 like most of the M-17's is that the >>> rudder slides up and down a fixed rod. I bought the material for >>> the rod >>> from McMaster Carr. You can google them but they sell bolts, metal >>> products as well as other machine items. They are not a marine supply >>> outfit in any way. >>> I too have a kick up rudder on my long list, probably from Ida >>> Sailor as I >>> had good luck with them on my CP-16 rudder replacement long ago. The >>> Chesapeake has lots of thin water and given the right circumstance I >>> can >>> see the transom being damaged from grounding the rudder while it is >>> full >>> down. >>> >>> Robbin >>> >>> On 2/26/2013 8:58 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Robbin, >>>> Great pictures, thanks. That M-10 is a sweet looking craft. Does it >>>> have >>>> any type of keel arrangement? How much does it draw? There is a lot of >>>> protected water around Corpus Christi that is rather shallow and >>>> this boat >>>> looks like it would be fun to use to explore the area. >>>> Noticed you bought that rudder rod from Mc Master Carr. Is that a >>>> business >>>> name? My M-17 does not have the rudder rod arrangement and it was >>>> certainly >>>> a good idea when I used it on my first Montgomery. I am considering a >>>> kickup rudder commercially made since my 17 came with a replacement >>>> rudder >>>> without any holes at all in it. The thin water here abouts covers >>>> oyster >>>> shell beds which are as hard as rock and I do not want to tear off a >>>> rudder >>>> on one of them. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Robbin Roddewig < >>>> robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Thomas, >>>>> I am not sure what material the through hull is but to me the >>>>> valve looks >>>>> like a gate valve. >>>>> I do have some shots of the M-10 although I am not sure how to >>>>> post them >>>>> to this site. I will upload them to the M-23 site at >>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/****110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23> >>>>> >>>>> <htt**ps://picasaweb.google.com/**110938325409185510143/M23<https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Robbin >>>>> >>>>> On 2/25/2013 6:49 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Robbin, >>>>>> If the valve is delrin or bronze I would leave it where it is >>>>>> against >>>>>> the >>>>>> day when you may sell the craft. Just be sure the ball valve is >>>>>> wired >>>>>> shut. >>>>>> I have always heard that 5200 is the way to go. >>>>>> I have been looking for a picture of an M-10. If you have one, >>>>>> would you >>>>>> post it here? >>>>>> Well the first 900 miles I put on my new (old) M-17 were road >>>>>> miles but >>>>>> it >>>>>> is finally in my yard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck on your repairs, >>>>>> Tom Buzzi >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Robbin Roddewig < >>>>>> robbin.roddewig(a)verizon.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi M-boaters, >>>>>> >>>>>>> I attended a great seminar that other day about proper through >>>>>>> hulls >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> convinced me I should remove the through hull on my M-23 that is >>>>>>> connected >>>>>>> to the holding tank. I never plan on using this as I have a porta >>>>>>> potti, >>>>>>> dont now if the attached valve is approved and am not planning on >>>>>>> reconstituting the head system so this is just a hole in the >>>>>>> hull for >>>>>>> water >>>>>>> to come in if it breaks. Any advice on how to remove the current >>>>>>> plastic >>>>>>> (or delrin or whatever it is) through hull and then patch the >>>>>>> hole? I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> not sure what the thickness of the hull is on the lower portion, >>>>>>> cored >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> what not. >>>>>>> I also need to work on the hull to deck joint in March and April as >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> warm up in Virginia. If anyone has a good reference or hints on >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> repair I would appreciate any info that you can pass along. I >>>>>>> have had >>>>>>> Jerry's recommendation to use 3M 5200 which is also what Don Casey >>>>>>> recommends but I like to get all the information I can before >>>>>>> starting >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> big project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Robbin >>>>>>> M-23 and M-10 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > > >

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Re: M_Boats: Penetrol
by Larry E Yake 26 Feb '13

26 Feb '13

Jeff, I used penetrol on my M17 for a while several years ago. Still use it on the aluminum toe-rail and it does a good job of restoring the looks of that. I got away from it on the fiberglass after I wasn't satisfied with the results. Went with Poly Glow instead and have been very happy with that. Yes, you can fine sand the gel coat. I had to do that on CornDog to get her hull to an even consistent color. Everything else I tried left her blotchy. The gel coat was just faded too deep for the polishing compounds to do it. I started very carefully with 400 grit, making sure to not go too deep, then moved to 600 grit, and finally 1300 grit which gave it a nice consistent satin look. The Poly Glow then gave it the glossy shine. Penetrol may have worked fine after the sanding, but I didn't want to try it again since the previous treatments I'd done with it made the sanding such a nasty chore, clogging up the sandpaper pretty quickly. Larry On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:38:12 -0800 (PST) Jeff <northwave20(a)yahoo.com> writes: > > I seem to remember reading an article about using penetrol on older > chalky gelcoat. Is it possible to clean and/or fine sand the gel > coat and apply penetrol to come up with a decent looking finish? > > Jeff > >

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Penetrol
by Jeff 25 Feb '13

25 Feb '13

I seem to remember reading an article about using penetrol on older chalky gelcoat. Is it possible to clean and/or fine sand the gel coat and apply penetrol to come up with a decent looking finish? Jeff

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(no subject)
by Bruce King 19 Feb '13

19 Feb '13

NEW TAX THAT OBAMA AND HIS THIEVES SAID WOULD NOT COME, AND YET HERE IT IS. WONDER WHAT THEY WILL DO TO CABELLA'S FOR SHOWING IT ON THE RECEIPTS THEY HAND TO THEIR CUSTOMERS The 2.3% Medical Excise Tax that began on January 1st is supposed to be “hidden” from the consumer, but it's been brought to the public’s attention by hunting and fishing store Cabela’s who have refused to hide it and are showing it as a separate line item tax on their receipts. The 2.3% Medical Excise Tax that began on January 1st is supposed to be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œhiddenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚ from the consumer, but it's been brought to the publicÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s attention by hunting and fishing store CabelaÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s who have refused to hide it and are showing it as a separate line item tax on their receipts. Anyone still believe Obama didn't raise taxes on the middle class? Anyone still believe Obama didn't raise taxes on the middle class? Bruce King

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Re: M_Boats: tax
by Daniel Rich 19 Feb '13

19 Feb '13

I certainly hope so. We have folks on all sides of the aisle. Would prefer to keep this to boat talk. Daniel M15 "Kestrel" Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Keith Diehl <kdiehl(a)xmission.com> wrote: > I think this is spam send fraudulently through Bruce's email account. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kent Richmond" <kdot1(a)centurytel.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:48 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) > > > First of all I fail to see what this has to do with Montgomery boats. > Second, the charge is simply not true. A mistake was made by Cabelas > when they switched over to some new software. They have admitted > incorrectly charging this tax on a customer. Third, you ought to have > more sense than to put this out on e-mail without having checked it > before hand. > > Kent Richmond > > On Feb 19, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Bruce King wrote: > >> NEW TAX THAT OBAMA AND HIS THIEVES SAID WOULD NOT COME, AND YET HERE >> IT IS. >> >> >> >> WONDER WHAT THEY WILL DO TO CABELLA'S FOR SHOWING IT ON THE RECEIPTS >> THEY HAND TO THEIR CUSTOMERS >> >> >> >> The 2.3% Medical Excise Tax that began on January 1st is supposed to >> be “hidden” from the consumer, but it's been brought to the public’s >> attention by hunting and fishing store Cabela’s who have refused to hide >> it and are showing it as a separate line item tax on their receipts. >> >> >> >> >> >> The 2.3% Medical Excise Tax that began on January 1st is supposed to >> be ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œhiddenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚ from the consumer, but it's been >> brought to the publicÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s attention by hunting and fishing >> store CabelaÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s who have refused to hide it and are >> showing it as a separate line item tax on their receipts. Anyone still >> believe Obama didn't raise taxes on the middle class? >> >> >> >> Anyone still believe Obama didn't raise taxes on the middle class? >> >> >> Bruce King >> >> > > >

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foul weather & clothes
by stevetrapp 14 Feb '13

14 Feb '13

"There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes." -Norwegian Adage - borrowed from Wilamette Sailing Club in Portland, Oregon

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Registering to gain access to posted jpg picture files
by Bob Molesworth 11 Feb '13

11 Feb '13

To any one that can lead me to the correct path. I cannot log in to gain access to posted jpg's etc and I do not see an obvious link to use for registration.Please Help. Bob Molesworth M15 292 9084 117th St . Delta BC V4C 7L7 604 507 9511 ramman(a)telus.net

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M-15 cabin port
by stevetrapp 11 Feb '13

11 Feb '13

Tom, I think this photo of the rectangular shape port (hinged window with screen - opens inward for ventilation) on my M-15 shows it better than words of description. Took the photo of my M-15 on Laike Couer D' Alene in North Idaho, but my boat and I are now on Sound Puget Sound. Steve M-15 # 335 From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 3:15 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 cabin port > Steve, > Which surface on your boat did you mount your vent on? > Tom B The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: highwater & sailboat 065 (2) Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

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Montgomery 15 Rudder
by David Grah 11 Feb '13

11 Feb '13

The discussion about rudders prompts me to comment. I admit I only really know our boat, which I believe uses a stock rudder, but I can't imagine any way to improve it. On our boat the rudder is raised and lowered by applying an up-and-down motion to the tiller. It is easy to quickly put the rudder up or down or even put it halfway if you hold the tiller right. If we hit rocks or the bottom the rudder kicks up on its own so it doesn't tear itself out of the boat. As far as I know, the rudder has never come near our propeller. It sounds like the Ida rudder setup would be similar but slower to get up or down. I would think a rudder that retracts straight up wouldn't allow protection from running into things. Anyway, my thoughts. I like the stock rudder. David Grah Montgomery 15 Bishop California

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