June 2012 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Self steer tiller
by Mack Warner 30 Jun '12

30 Jun '12

I found you don't want to keep the tiller in one place by using rope. Just as sailing with your hand on the tiller, you are always making small changes. The pressure on the tiller changes. That is why I use 2 bonjis on the windward side of the tiller and 1 on the lee and attached by rope on the tiller. If the bow starts to point up wind, the pressure on the tiller is less, so the double bonji will pull it and bring it down. Then the presure builds back on the tiller and counters the bonji. If set up correct, the tiller should be centered, adjust the bonjis to keep it centered. When I jump off the back of the boat, while holding on a rope, the bow would come up at little, pressure comes off the tiller, bonjis pull to straighten the boat. Even with me dragging, the boat just sailed on couse. Sent from my iPad

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facebook
by mack warner 30 Jun '12

30 Jun '12

I just started a Montgomery Sailboat facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/330782353662726/

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Main sail
by Mack Warner 30 Jun '12

30 Jun '12

I had a rope luff. No slugs. Both main and jib should go up or down very easy. Something must be binding Mack Sent from my iPad

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Re: M_Boats: Main Sail
by hikickracing＠gmail.com 29 Jun '12

29 Jun '12

Lsat time that happened to me I found out that the jib and main halyards were crossed. Check the masthead even if the jib halyard pulls easily T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network ----- Reply message ----- From: "Ted Weidenbach" <weid0069(a)umn.edu> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Main Sail Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:35 pm Quick question... So first question. My sail says 114 on it, does that mean it is the 114th monty built? Also, does that mean it is the original sail? Finally, when I get new sails made can I have them put that number back on the sail without much added cost? Last Question. I put the mast up for the first time and it is extremely hard to pull the main sail up the mast. I don't think I rigged anything wrong but damn, if it is like that all the time I am going to run into problems. I am going to lube it when I take it for the first sail tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone can point me in the direction on pictures of the top of the mast and the main sail lines running through them in the appropriate manner. It is possible I am stupid and rigged it wrong at the top. Tomorrow will be my first sail, any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks, Ted

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Fern ridge rendezvous
by dennis olmstead 29 Jun '12

29 Jun '12

Does anyone have details about the July 14 rendezvous at Fern Ridge reservoir ? Do you sign up in advance? How? Camping available? Dennis Olmstead Portland Kent Ranger 20 #526

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Sorry bad picture link
by Bill Wickett 28 Jun '12

28 Jun '12

Try this for the Toronto Island pics I mentioned earlier. Sorry for the trouble. http://bit.ly/MYsj7Y

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my ole M-17
by mack warner 28 Jun '12

28 Jun '12

You will notice, I was solo most of the time. I used a self steering of two bonjis on the upwind side and a single on the downwind sideand a clove hitch on the tiller. When I tacked, change one bonji over, readjust the clove hitch and walk away. I could jump off the boat, with a line connected of course, and the boat would sail straight. It did not matter if I was in light or heavy winds. I have been on the bow with wave coming over the bow and the boat sailed straight. I also changed the front hatch. I wanted to have it open while sailing, so I put the hinges on the other side. The jib did not catch on the hatch. V jam cleats were used for the jib sheets, easy to cleat and release. My traveler was well forward by the companionway. It was also the full width of the cockpit. You can also see I took off the sliding hatch while sailing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN3WOg_-0QQ https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3603104882714.2128244.1426362729&…

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Re: M_Boats: Tiller immobilization again
by ndorf＠surfbest.net 28 Jun '12

28 Jun '12

Tom, the Cajun Tiller Tamer is what I have been doing also but it hasn't worked all that well for me. Guess it's time to Pop the Clutch (or is that pop FOR the clutch) ...Counting the days to CCXIII Monterey CA, my favorite sailing venue! -Neil ----- Reply message ----- From: "Tom Jenkins" <tjenk(a)gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Tiller immobilization again Date: Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:04 am I did not mention it because I posted on it two or three years ago, but I found a site on the net describing a simple way to hold the tiller for singlehanding. You just run a line between the stern cleats, wrapped about three times around the tiller, and when it is pulled forward almost to the holding position, the loops jam and hold the tiller. When not in use, you just slide the loops back to the transom out of the way. It takes some initial adjustment to fit the shape of the tiller, but it has worked for me in some pretty nasty blows. The mechanical tiller holders are more foolproof, and gadgets are great, but you might give it a try if you like just wood and rope. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla

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Electric Outboard Weight Adjustment
by Randy 28 Jun '12

28 Jun '12

Hi Dave, I got the 2012 German Torqueedo Travel 1003 extra long shaft. I have the older M-17 with the cut out transom. The engine can be backed up with a solar charger and/or 12volt marine battery. I am in the process of installing a larger solar collector to charge and maintain my marine battery that I use to run my electrical system. Torqueedo makes a solar charger for the Torqueedo but it is quite pricy (over $800.). I have only been out on the boat three times with the new engine but like it so far. It does have a two year warranty. randy -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:04 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 11 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (judy casino) 2. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (judy casino) 3. M15 in Portland area? (dennis olmstead) 4. Re: M15 in Portland area? (Bob Eeg) 5. Re: M-17 weight adjustment (David Gilroy) 6. Re: M-17 weight adjustment (Tom Jenkins) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:58:40 -0700 (PDT) From: judy casino <jratesq(a)yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <1340830720.55843.YahooMailNeo(a)web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I have a slight variation on your method for my M-15. I take a 3/8" diameter bungee cord with plastic hooks at either end and hook them to the eye straps on the transom that the main sheet rigging is attached to. The untended length of the bungee is about 8" shorter than the distance between the eye straps. The bungee just lays on the transom with some tension on it. I also have a jam cleat screwed into the underside of the tiller about a foot from the forward end as you do. When I need a tiller minder, I just grab the bungee and stretch it forward and place it in the jam cleat with the tiller angled as desired. It works quite well, and there is no permanently angled lines that might interfere with access to the outboard. Ron Casino M-15 "Spirit" ________________________________ From: Howard Audsley <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension A quick and dirty, inexpensive solution to a tiller tamer is a piece of 1/4" rigging line, with 6" diameter loops of 1/4" or larger bungee cord tied to each end. The bungee cords drop over the aft mooring cleats. Screw a jamb cleat of about 2 inch size to the bottom of the tiller about a foot or so away from the front end. Match the length of the line in the middle so that with a loop of line around the tiller cleat, the bungee cords are stretched a bit to tension it. It will hold the tiller in place while under way or stopped and can be adjusted side to side easy enough. Get the tension right and it will slip if you push on the tiller, then hold when you stop.? One of the most important pieces of equipment I have on the boat. Does not help steer as a tiller extension does, but I can't imagine sailing without it. It's the only crew I have. On Jun 27, 2012, at 9:50 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > Mike, is your Forespar a gold anodized alum tube, quick disconnect from the tiller, and a black rubber ball on the end?? what i describe is the one i had on my M15 and have on my M17.? just love the product. > > it is no longer made.? the unit now made by Forespar is the Twist-lock Quick Release '27"-48" MEDIUM' #104017 - > > http://www.forespar.com/products/tiller-extension-twist-lock.shtml > > > almost the same as the old one i describe above.? the 'twist-lock' is black anodized, has a foam 'grip' the last 6" and the quick-release mechanism has been slightly redesigned. > > Don, you want the extendable v. the fixed length.? the extendable will allow you to sit anywhere in the cockpit and allow you to make it short if you are sailing with a crew and for easier storage. > > Neil, GET the TillerClutch.? GREAT product!? on my M17 i tie the cord to the aft cleats.? i have set up the Glesser's M15 the same way.? the angle is correct for the line to the tiller and means you don't need to drill holes in the cockpit combing. > > i broke two Tiller Tamers on my M15 and one on my M17 before i saw Pete's and Katherine's offering. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Beowulf <beowulf2(a)cox.net> wrote: >> >> Hello Don: Just went out and measured >> my forespar tiller extension and it is 27 inches long and >> extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am not >> sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked >> very well for me as it is useable as far forward as one can >> sit in the cockpit. I just recently purchased a tiller >> clutch and have installed it but have not sailed with it >> yet. >> >> Mike Hall >> M15 167 "Dreki" >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM >> >>> Tiller clutch baby! >>> >>> Daniel >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> >> wrote: >>> >>>> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller >> Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following. >>>> >>>> Neil >>>> >>>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails >> better with weight forward got me thing about tiller >> extensions again. >>>>> >>>>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it >> working out. >>>>> >>>>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a >> reasonable price.? Has anyone used that one? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Don M15-248 >>>>> > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:03:09 -0700 (PDT) From: judy casino <jratesq(a)yahoo.com> To: judy casino <jratesq(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <1340830989.32926.YahooMailNeo(a)web161402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I mean "untensed" lenth of the bungee is 8" shorter than the distance between the eye straps. Thus, when the bungee is hooked onto the straps, there is slight tension on the bungee. ________________________________ From: judy casino <jratesq(a)yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:58 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension I have a slight variation on your method for my M-15. I take a 3/8" diameter bungee cord with plastic hooks at either end and hook them to the eye straps on the transom that the main sheet rigging is attached to. The untended length of the bungee is about 8" shorter than the distance between the eye straps. The bungee just lays on the transom with some tension on it. I also have a jam cleat screwed into the underside of the tiller about a foot from the forward end as you do. When I need a tiller minder, I just grab the bungee and stretch it forward and place it in the jam cleat with the tiller angled as desired. It works quite well, and there is no permanently angled lines that might interfere with access to the outboard. Ron Casino M-15 "Spirit" ________________________________ From: Howard Audsley <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension A quick and dirty, inexpensive solution to a tiller tamer is a piece of 1/4" rigging line, with 6" diameter loops of 1/4" or larger bungee cord tied to each end. The bungee cords drop over the aft mooring cleats. Screw a jamb cleat of about 2 inch size to the bottom of the tiller about a foot or so away from the front end. Match the length of the line in the middle so that with a loop of line around the tiller cleat, the bungee cords are stretched a bit to tension it. It will hold the tiller in place while under way or stopped and can be adjusted side to side easy enough. Get the tension right and it will slip if you push on the tiller, then hold when you stop.? One of the most important pieces of equipment I have on the boat. Does not help steer as a tiller extension does, but I can't imagine sailing without it. It's the only crew I have. On Jun 27, 2012, at 9:50 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > Mike, is your Forespar a gold anodized alum tube, quick disconnect from the tiller, and a black rubber ball on the end?? what i describe is the one i had on my M15 and have on my M17.? just love the product. > > it is no longer made.? the unit now made by Forespar is the Twist-lock Quick Release '27"-48" MEDIUM' #104017 - > > http://www.forespar.com/products/tiller-extension-twist-lock.shtml > > > almost the same as the old one i describe above.? the 'twist-lock' is black anodized, has a foam 'grip' the last 6" and the quick-release mechanism has been slightly redesigned. > > Don, you want the extendable v. the fixed length.? the extendable will allow you to sit anywhere in the cockpit and allow you to make it short if you are sailing with a crew and for easier storage. > > Neil, GET the TillerClutch.? GREAT product!? on my M17 i tie the cord to the aft cleats.? i have set up the Glesser's M15 the same way.? the angle is correct for the line to the tiller and means you don't need to drill holes in the cockpit combing. > > i broke two Tiller Tamers on my M15 and one on my M17 before i saw Pete's and Katherine's offering. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Beowulf <beowulf2(a)cox.net> wrote: >> >> Hello Don: Just went out and measured >> my forespar tiller extension and it is 27 inches long and >> extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am not >> sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked >> very well for me as it is useable as far forward as one can >> sit in the cockpit. I just recently purchased a tiller >> clutch and have installed it but have not sailed with it >> yet. >> >> Mike Hall >> M15 167 "Dreki" >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM >> >>> Tiller clutch baby! >>> >>> Daniel >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> >> wrote: >>> >>>> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller >> Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following. >>>> >>>> Neil >>>> >>>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails >> better with weight forward got me thing about tiller >> extensions again. >>>>> >>>>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it >> working out. >>>>> >>>>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a >> reasonable price.? Has anyone used that one? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Don M15-248 >>>>> > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:04:45 -0700 From: dennis olmstead <dennis.olmstead(a)comcast.net> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M15 in Portland area? Message-ID: <40CFB546-160C-447A-A60B-83C7681BC01A(a)comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'm new to the listserv and not yet a Montgomery owner. I would really like to see one up close. If there is an owner of a M15, or M17 for that matter, that would be willing to show me their boat I would really appreciate it. Dennis Portland, OR dennis.olmstead(a)comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:30:55 -0700 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats(a)hotmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 in Portland area? Message-ID: <BLU162-W653330FA1C38033F601EFB7E70(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Welcome Dennis..I'am sure someone will chime in. Be well, Bob www.montgomeryboats.com (949) 489-8227 > From: dennis.olmstead(a)comcast.net > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:04:45 -0700 > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: M15 in Portland area? > > Hi, > > I'm new to the listserv and not yet a Montgomery owner. I would really like to see one up close. If there is an owner of a M15, or M17 for that matter, that would be willing to show me their boat I would really appreciate it. > > Dennis > Portland, OR > dennis.olmstead(a)comcast.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:48:48 -0400 From: David Gilroy <dbakergilroy(a)sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 weight adjustment Message-ID: <8A0E5175-B120-4231-B3BF-68E61A03271B(a)sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Randy, I'm curious which electric motor you chose? Dave On Jun 27, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Randy wrote: > After some 11 years of following threads on engine ideas, I finally made a > dead weight adjustment. After all, when you are sailing the engine, fuel > tank fuel are all dead weight. > I went from a 100lb. 9.9 Yamaha outboard to a 3.5hp 35lb electric....o.k. so > I am an extremist! > Still, it sails much better. I also got rid of one of my two deep cycle > marine batteries. It also was strapped at the bottom aft corner of the boat. > So far, it has worked out well in even some pretty testy mountain lake > winds. And, as expected, in light winds we are moving along much better! > Thanks to all who have finally gotten through this thick skull...now a thick > "green" skull. > > Randy > M-17 "Fore Play" > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:53 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) > 2. Re: How much heel on M17 (W David Scobie) > 3. Re: How much heel on M17 (John Schinnerer) > 4. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) > 5. Re: How much heel on M17 (jerry montgomery) > 6. Re: aspens are trembling outside my window (W David Scobie) > 7. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) > 8. Re: How much wind (Jeffrey Johnston) > 9. Re: How much wind (jerry montgomery) > 10. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) > 11. M15 Tiller Extension (Don) > 12. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Neil Dorf) > 13. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Tod) > 14. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Daniel Rich) > 15. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Beowulf) > 16. Main sail luff slides (Beowulf) > 17. Re: Main sail luff slides (Stan Susman) > 18. Re: How much wind (Stan Susman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:42:36 -0700 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <58224808-8687-4D91-9CDE-A19D9A4AF46C(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dave, > Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word. > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails > better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19. >> >> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one > side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat > as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her > leaning to one side. >> >> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, > especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the > keel. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >> >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I >>> assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you >>> think? >>> Tom Jenkins >>> M17 Scintilla >>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:48:07 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: > <1340736487.98898.YahooMailClassic(a)web162704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Tom: > > more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll > ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling. > > M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. > > > :: Dave Scobie > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >> Dave, >> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks.? Been waiting years to use that >> word.? >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15.? >> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >> P15 or P19. >>> >>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) >> if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel.? >> much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. >>> >>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of >> the keel, and aft of the keel. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave, >>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >> best >>>> flat.? I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >> but I >>>> never checked.? What you think? >>>> Tom Jenkins >>>> M17 Scintilla >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:57:18 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <4FEA060E.1030905(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference > between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 > has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary > stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds > like it has slightly more primary stability. > > Terminology...go figure! > > cheers, > John S. > > On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> Tom: >> >> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > heeling. >> >> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that >>> word. >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. >>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >>> P15 or P19. >>>> >>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) >>> if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. >>> much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. >>>> >>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of >>> the keel, and aft of the keel. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dave, >>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >>> best >>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >>> but I >>>>> never checked. What you think? >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net > http://eco-living.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:11:40 -0700 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <20506EB8-AE32-4B5E-846E-13F80DAD41AD(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dave, > Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of > travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as > John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the > aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of > sitting in front of the computer. > Tom > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> Tom: >> >> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > heeling. >> >> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years >>> to use that word. >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. >>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >>> P15 or P19. >>>> >>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 >>> deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape >>> 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have >>> her leaning to one side. >>>> >>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and >>> starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dave, >>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >>> best >>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >>> but I >>>>> never checked. What you think? >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:35:36 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: <john(a)eco-living.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <CB1FB5223DC8446CBE791C095D8A19D1@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type="response" > > John- what do you paddle, out of curiousity? > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Schinnerer" <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > >> In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the >> difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds >> like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and >> distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of >> heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability. >> >> Terminology...go figure! >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> Tom: >>> >>> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just >>> roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her >>> heeling. >>> >>> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave, >>>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years >>>> to use that word. >>>> >>>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>>> >>>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. >>>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >>>> P15 or P19. >>>>> >>>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >>>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 >>>> deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape >>>> 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have >>>> her leaning to one side. >>>>> >>>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >>>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and >>>> starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave, >>>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >>>> best >>>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >>>> but I >>>>>> never checked. What you think? >>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john(a)eco-living.net >> http://eco-living.net >> >> >> >> > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 6728 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: aspens are trembling outside my window > Message-ID: > <1340740925.96334.YahooMailClassic(a)web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > going sailing on your boat is best idea shared by any of us today!!! :-) > > > :: Dave Scobie > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >> Dave, >> Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average >> direction of travel.? That would be poor >> tracking.???I have not sailed an M15, but as >> John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its >> weight.? Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my >> window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of >> the computer. >> Tom >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:01:22 -0700 > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: <542BA21D-91FF-4789-B5A2-9B96E322BB51(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent > hopes... > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing > this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these > wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >> >> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, > rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >> >> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in > relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as > noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >> >> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >> >> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and > cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if > you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be > sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >> >> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. > this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when > sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >> >> >> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>> >>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>> take >>> Thanks >>> KLaas >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:15:07 -0500 > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: > <CAFS5qAs+spg4m3czePcOjUthh_X77-+5aF9gBBDfdjpFX8rMKQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > > Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > > Jeff Johnston > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent >> hopes... >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>> >>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control >> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>> >>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in >> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as >> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>> >>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>> >>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if >> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > be >> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>> >>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when >> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>> take >>>> Thanks >>>> KLaas >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:52:26 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: <0CD48FC8164349C2AC783D9694EDF838@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type="original" > > I've always used a P log! > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > > I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > > Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > > Jeff Johnston > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent >> hopes... >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>> >>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control >> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>> >>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in >> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly >> (as >> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>> >>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>> >>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if >> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should >> be >> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>> >>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when >> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>> take >>>> Thanks >>>> KLaas >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:03:25 -0700 > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: <316ED3E4-DC68-475B-A458-3FDECB6C6139(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Doesn't that measure water temperature too? > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > >> I've always used a P log! >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind >> >> >> I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. >> >> Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. >> >> Jeff Johnston >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent >>> hopes... >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >>> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >>> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>>> >>>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control >>> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>>> >>>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >>> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving > in >>> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as >>> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>>> >>>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>>> >>>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >>> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if >>> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > be >>> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>>> >>>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >>> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when >>> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>>> take >>>>> Thanks >>>>> KLaas >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:59:15 -0700 > From: Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <4FEA68F3.2080309(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > got me thing about tiller extensions again. > > What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > > Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > used that one? > > Thanks > Don M15-248 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:20:23 -0700 > From: Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <B7ADE2EC-6CA6-4FE3-B8AF-C3C8754FC488(a)surfbest.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not > sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to > grip. > > Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a > loyal following. > > Neil > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > got me thing about tiller extensions again. >> >> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >> >> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used > that one? >> >> Thanks >> Don M15-248 >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:24:51 -0400 > From: "Tod" <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <00d101cd540c$08177c30$18467490$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > BuscaBrisas came with a Davis Tiller Tamer, and I wouldn't wish that on > anyone. > > Tod > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >> Neil Dorf >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:20 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension >> >> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" >> but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is >> comfortable and easy to grip. >> >> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to >> have a loyal following. >> >> Neil >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight >> forward got me thing about tiller extensions again. >>> >>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >>> >>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone >> used that one? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Don M15-248 >>> >>> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:51:31 -0700 > From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <-3834993404011304567@unknownmsgid> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Tiller clutch baby! > > Daniel > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: > >> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but > not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and > easy to grip. >> >> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have > a loyal following. >> >> Neil >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > got me thing about tiller extensions again. >>> >>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >>> >>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used > that one? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Don M15-248 >>> >>> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:29:44 -0700 > From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <12E6629EA4BE4F9F8FFE5C27EA37EC1F@Mike> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello Don: Just went out and measured my forespar tiller extension and it is > > 27 inches long and extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am not > > sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked very well for me > as it is useable as far forward as one can sit in the cockpit. I just > recently purchased a tiller clutch and have installed it but have not sailed > > with it yet. > > Mike Hall > M15 167 "Dreki" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > >> Tiller clutch baby! >> >> Daniel >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: >> >>> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but >>> not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and >>> easy to grip. >>> >>> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to >>> have a loyal following. >>> >>> Neil >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > >>>> got me thing about tiller extensions again. >>>> >>>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >>>> >>>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone >>>> used that one? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Don M15-248 >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:39:14 -0700 > From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > Message-ID: <5A4F716F24D546938935F9EE4118AF9C@Mike> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that > installs main sail luff slides. > > Thanks, > > Mike Hall > M15 167 "Dreki" > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > Message-ID: > <1340772225.33011.YahooMailNeo(a)web184506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Baxter and Cicero 9496427238 in Costa Mesa > > > > ________________________________ > From: Beowulf <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:39 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > > Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that > installs main sail luff slides. > > Thanks, > > Mike Hall > M15 167 "Dreki" > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: > <1340772764.28832.YahooMailNeo(a)web184501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > yes and depth limited to 2 feet > > > > ________________________________ > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Doesn't that measure water temperature too? > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > >> I've always used a P log! >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind >> >> >> I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. >> >> Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. >> >> Jeff Johnston >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log".? So much for my patent >>> hopes... >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >>> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >>> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>>> >>>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving.? she will have helm control >>> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>>> >>>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >>> moving i will spit over the side.? i can then see if the boat is moving > in >>> relation to the spit.? this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as >>> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>>> >>>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>>> >>>> * SIT FORWARD.? be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >>> cockpit.? if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat.? if >>> you don't have a tiller extension get one.? (FYI, this is how you should > be >>> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>>> >>>> * sit on the leeward side.? the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >>> this is especially true in light winds.? the M15 is not at her best when >>> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move ,? the >>>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>>> take >>>>> Thanks >>>>> KLaas >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 > ************************************************ > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:03:15 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 weight adjustment Message-ID: <525028F6-6FC4-448B-89B0-49FF47FC0CD9(a)gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Randy wrote: > After some 11 years of following threads on engine ideas, I finally made a > dead weight adjustment. After all, when you are sailing the engine, fuel > tank fuel are all dead weight. > I went from a 100lb. 9.9 Yamaha outboard to a 3.5hp 35lb electric....o.k. so > I am an extremist! > Still, it sails much better. I also got rid of one of my two deep cycle > marine batteries. It also was strapped at the bottom aft corner of the boat. > So far, it has worked out well in even some pretty testy mountain lake > winds. And, as expected, in light winds we are moving along much better! > Thanks to all who have finally gotten through this thick skull...now a thick > "green" skull. > > Randy > M-17 "Fore Play" > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:53 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) > 2. Re: How much heel on M17 (W David Scobie) > 3. Re: How much heel on M17 (John Schinnerer) > 4. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) > 5. Re: How much heel on M17 (jerry montgomery) > 6. Re: aspens are trembling outside my window (W David Scobie) > 7. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) > 8. Re: How much wind (Jeffrey Johnston) > 9. Re: How much wind (jerry montgomery) > 10. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) > 11. M15 Tiller Extension (Don) > 12. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Neil Dorf) > 13. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Tod) > 14. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Daniel Rich) > 15. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Beowulf) > 16. Main sail luff slides (Beowulf) > 17. Re: Main sail luff slides (Stan Susman) > 18. Re: How much wind (Stan Susman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:42:36 -0700 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <58224808-8687-4D91-9CDE-A19D9A4AF46C(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dave, > Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word. > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails > better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19. >> >> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one > side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat > as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her > leaning to one side. >> >> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, > especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the > keel. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >> >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I >>> assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you >>> think? >>> Tom Jenkins >>> M17 Scintilla >>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:48:07 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: > <1340736487.98898.YahooMailClassic(a)web162704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Tom: > > more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll > ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling. > > M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. > > > :: Dave Scobie > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >> Dave, >> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks.? Been waiting years to use that >> word.? >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15.? >> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >> P15 or P19. >>> >>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) >> if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel.? >> much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. >>> >>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of >> the keel, and aft of the keel. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave, >>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >> best >>>> flat.? I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >> but I >>>> never checked.? What you think? >>>> Tom Jenkins >>>> M17 Scintilla >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:57:18 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <4FEA060E.1030905(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference > between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 > has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary > stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds > like it has slightly more primary stability. > > Terminology...go figure! > > cheers, > John S. > > On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> Tom: >> >> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > heeling. >> >> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that >>> word. >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. >>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >>> P15 or P19. >>>> >>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) >>> if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. >>> much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. >>>> >>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of >>> the keel, and aft of the keel. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dave, >>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >>> best >>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >>> but I >>>>> never checked. What you think? >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net > http://eco-living.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:11:40 -0700 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <20506EB8-AE32-4B5E-846E-13F80DAD41AD(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dave, > Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of > travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as > John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the > aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of > sitting in front of the computer. > Tom > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> Tom: >> >> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > heeling. >> >> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years >>> to use that word. >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. >>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >>> P15 or P19. >>>> >>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 >>> deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape >>> 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have >>> her leaning to one side. >>>> >>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and >>> starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dave, >>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >>> best >>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >>> but I >>>>> never checked. What you think? >>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:35:36 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: <john(a)eco-living.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > Message-ID: <CB1FB5223DC8446CBE791C095D8A19D1@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type="response" > > John- what do you paddle, out of curiousity? > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Schinnerer" <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > >> In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the >> difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds >> like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and >> distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of >> heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability. >> >> Terminology...go figure! >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> Tom: >>> >>> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just >>> roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her >>> heeling. >>> >>> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> >>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave, >>>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years >>>> to use that word. >>>> >>>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>>> >>>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. >>>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a >>>> P15 or P19. >>>>> >>>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from >>>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 >>>> deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape >>>> 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have >>>> her leaning to one side. >>>>> >>>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different >>>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and >>>> starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave, >>>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails >>>> best >>>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, >>>> but I >>>>>> never checked. What you think? >>>>>> Tom Jenkins >>>>>> M17 Scintilla >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john(a)eco-living.net >> http://eco-living.net >> >> >> >> > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 6728 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: aspens are trembling outside my window > Message-ID: > <1340740925.96334.YahooMailClassic(a)web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > going sailing on your boat is best idea shared by any of us today!!! :-) > > > :: Dave Scobie > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: >> >> Dave, >> Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average >> direction of travel.? That would be poor >> tracking.???I have not sailed an M15, but as >> John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its >> weight.? Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my >> window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of >> the computer. >> Tom >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:01:22 -0700 > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: <542BA21D-91FF-4789-B5A2-9B96E322BB51(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent > hopes... > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing > this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these > wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >> >> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, > rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >> >> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in > relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as > noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >> >> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >> >> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and > cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if > you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be > sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >> >> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. > this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when > sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >> >> >> :: Dave Scobie >> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >> >> >> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>> >>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>> take >>> Thanks >>> KLaas >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:15:07 -0500 > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: > <CAFS5qAs+spg4m3czePcOjUthh_X77-+5aF9gBBDfdjpFX8rMKQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > > Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > > Jeff Johnston > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent >> hopes... >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>> >>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control >> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>> >>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in >> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as >> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>> >>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>> >>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if >> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > be >> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>> >>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when >> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>> take >>>> Thanks >>>> KLaas >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:52:26 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: <0CD48FC8164349C2AC783D9694EDF838@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type="original" > > I've always used a P log! > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > > I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > > Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > > Jeff Johnston > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: > >> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent >> hopes... >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >> >>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>> >>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control >> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>> >>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in >> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly >> (as >> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>> >>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>> >>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if >> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should >> be >> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>> >>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when >> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>> take >>>> Thanks >>>> KLaas >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Jeff+* > Mol?n labe! > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:03:25 -0700 > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: <316ED3E4-DC68-475B-A458-3FDECB6C6139(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Doesn't that measure water temperature too? > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > >> I've always used a P log! >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind >> >> >> I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. >> >> Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. >> >> Jeff Johnston >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent >>> hopes... >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >>> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >>> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>>> >>>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control >>> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>>> >>>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >>> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving > in >>> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as >>> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>>> >>>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>>> >>>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >>> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if >>> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > be >>> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>>> >>>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >>> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when >>> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the >>>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>>> take >>>>> Thanks >>>>> KLaas >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:59:15 -0700 > From: Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <4FEA68F3.2080309(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > got me thing about tiller extensions again. > > What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > > Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > used that one? > > Thanks > Don M15-248 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:20:23 -0700 > From: Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <B7ADE2EC-6CA6-4FE3-B8AF-C3C8754FC488(a)surfbest.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not > sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to > grip. > > Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a > loyal following. > > Neil > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > got me thing about tiller extensions again. >> >> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >> >> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used > that one? >> >> Thanks >> Don M15-248 >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:24:51 -0400 > From: "Tod" <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <00d101cd540c$08177c30$18467490$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > BuscaBrisas came with a Davis Tiller Tamer, and I wouldn't wish that on > anyone. > > Tod > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of >> Neil Dorf >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:20 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension >> >> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" >> but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is >> comfortable and easy to grip. >> >> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to >> have a loyal following. >> >> Neil >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight >> forward got me thing about tiller extensions again. >>> >>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >>> >>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone >> used that one? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Don M15-248 >>> >>> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:51:31 -0700 > From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <-3834993404011304567@unknownmsgid> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Tiller clutch baby! > > Daniel > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: > >> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but > not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and > easy to grip. >> >> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have > a loyal following. >> >> Neil >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > got me thing about tiller extensions again. >>> >>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >>> >>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used > that one? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Don M15-248 >>> >>> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:29:44 -0700 > From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > Message-ID: <12E6629EA4BE4F9F8FFE5C27EA37EC1F@Mike> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello Don: Just went out and measured my forespar tiller extension and it is > > 27 inches long and extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am not > > sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked very well for me > as it is useable as far forward as one can sit in the cockpit. I just > recently purchased a tiller clutch and have installed it but have not sailed > > with it yet. > > Mike Hall > M15 167 "Dreki" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > >> Tiller clutch baby! >> >> Daniel >> >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: >> >>> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but >>> not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and >>> easy to grip. >>> >>> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to >>> have a loyal following. >>> >>> Neil >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > >>>> got me thing about tiller extensions again. >>>> >>>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. >>>> >>>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone >>>> used that one? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Don M15-248 >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:39:14 -0700 > From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > Message-ID: <5A4F716F24D546938935F9EE4118AF9C@Mike> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that > installs main sail luff slides. > > Thanks, > > Mike Hall > M15 167 "Dreki" > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > Message-ID: > <1340772225.33011.YahooMailNeo(a)web184506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Baxter and Cicero 9496427238 in Costa Mesa > > > > ________________________________ > From: Beowulf <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:39 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > > Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that > installs main sail luff slides. > > Thanks, > > Mike Hall > M15 167 "Dreki" > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > Message-ID: > <1340772764.28832.YahooMailNeo(a)web184501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > yes and depth limited to 2 feet > > > > ________________________________ > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Doesn't that measure water temperature too? > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > >> I've always used a P log! >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind >> >> >> I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. >> >> Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. >> >> Jeff Johnston >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log".? So much for my patent >>> hopes... >>> >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: >>> >>>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved >>> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. >>> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. >>>> >>>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving.? she will have helm control >>> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. >>>> >>>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is >>> moving i will spit over the side.? i can then see if the boat is moving > in >>> relation to the spit.? this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as >>> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. >>>> >>>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - >>>> >>>> * SIT FORWARD.? be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and >>> cockpit.? if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat.? if >>> you don't have a tiller extension get one.? (FYI, this is how you should > be >>> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). >>>> >>>> * sit on the leeward side.? the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. >>> this is especially true in light winds.? the M15 is not at her best when >>> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. >>>> >>>> >>>> :: Dave Scobie >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> can someone tell me how much wind it >>>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a >>>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move ,? the >>>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it >>>>> take >>>>> Thanks >>>>> KLaas >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Jeff+* >> Mol?n labe! >> >> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 > ************************************************ > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 11 *************************************************

3 2

Gas smell in cabin
by Bill Wickett 28 Jun '12

28 Jun '12

Tom, You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up. Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone. I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry? Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > Randy, > I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays > in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me > control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other > things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor > despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always > lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be > pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, > and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a > sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate > need of a kick. > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > > > On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Randy wrote: > > > After some 11 years of following threads on engine ideas, I finally made > a > > dead weight adjustment. After all, when you are sailing the engine, fuel > > tank fuel are all dead weight. > > I went from a 100lb. 9.9 Yamaha outboard to a 3.5hp 35lb > electric....o.k. so > > I am an extremist! > > Still, it sails much better. I also got rid of one of my two deep cycle > > marine batteries. It also was strapped at the bottom aft corner of the > boat. > > So far, it has worked out well in even some pretty testy mountain lake > > winds. And, as expected, in light winds we are moving along much better! > > Thanks to all who have finally gotten through this thick skull...now a > thick > > "green" skull. > > > > Randy > > M-17 "Fore Play" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:53 PM > > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 > > > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > > "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) > > 2. Re: How much heel on M17 (W David Scobie) > > 3. Re: How much heel on M17 (John Schinnerer) > > 4. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) > > 5. Re: How much heel on M17 (jerry montgomery) > > 6. Re: aspens are trembling outside my window (W David Scobie) > > 7. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) > > 8. Re: How much wind (Jeffrey Johnston) > > 9. Re: How much wind (jerry montgomery) > > 10. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) > > 11. M15 Tiller Extension (Don) > > 12. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Neil Dorf) > > 13. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Tod) > > 14. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Daniel Rich) > > 15. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Beowulf) > > 16. Main sail luff slides (Beowulf) > > 17. Re: Main sail luff slides (Stan Susman) > > 18. Re: How much wind (Stan Susman) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:42:36 -0700 > > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > Message-ID: <58224808-8687-4D91-9CDE-A19D9A4AF46C(a)gte.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Dave, > > Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word. > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > > > >> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA > sails > > better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19. > >> > >> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one > > side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her > flat > > as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have > her > > leaning to one side. > >> > >> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and > M15, > > especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the > > keel. > >> > >> > >> :: Dave Scobie > >> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >> > >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> Dave, > >>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I > >>> assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you > >>> think? > >>> Tom Jenkins > >>> M17 Scintilla > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:48:07 -0700 (PDT) > > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > Message-ID: > > <1340736487.98898.YahooMailClassic(a)web162704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Tom: > > > > more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > roll > > ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling. > > > > M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > >> > >> Dave, > >> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks.? Been waiting years to use that > >> word.? > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> > >>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15.? > >> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a > >> P15 or P19. > >>> > >>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from > >> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) > >> if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel.? > >> much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. > >>> > >>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different > >> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of > >> the keel, and aft of the keel. > >>> > >>> > >>> :: Dave Scobie > >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>> > >>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dave, > >>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails > >> best > >>>> flat.? I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, > >> but I > >>>> never checked.? What you think? > >>>> Tom Jenkins > >>>> M17 Scintilla > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:57:18 -0700 > > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > Message-ID: <4FEA060E.1030905(a)eco-living.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the > difference > > between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the > M15 > > has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary > > stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds > > like it has slightly more primary stability. > > > > Terminology...go figure! > > > > cheers, > > John S. > > > > On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> Tom: > >> > >> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > > roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > > heeling. > >> > >> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. > >> > >> > >> :: Dave Scobie > >> > >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> Dave, > >>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that > >>> word. > >>> > >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >>> > >>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. > >>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a > >>> P15 or P19. > >>>> > >>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from > >>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) > >>> if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. > >>> much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. > >>>> > >>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different > >>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of > >>> the keel, and aft of the keel. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> :: Dave Scobie > >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>>> > >>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Dave, > >>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails > >>> best > >>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, > >>> but I > >>>>> never checked. What you think? > >>>>> Tom Jenkins > >>>>> M17 Scintilla > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net > > http://eco-living.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:11:40 -0700 > > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > Message-ID: <20506EB8-AE32-4B5E-846E-13F80DAD41AD(a)gte.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Dave, > > Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of > > travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as > > John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the > > aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of > > sitting in front of the computer. > > Tom > > > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > > > >> Tom: > >> > >> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > > roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > > heeling. > >> > >> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. > >> > >> > >> :: Dave Scobie > >> > >> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> Dave, > >>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years > >>> to use that word. > >>> > >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >>> > >>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. > >>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a > >>> P15 or P19. > >>>> > >>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from > >>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 > >>> deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape > >>> 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have > >>> her leaning to one side. > >>>> > >>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different > >>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and > >>> starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> :: Dave Scobie > >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>>> > >>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Dave, > >>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails > >>> best > >>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, > >>> but I > >>>>> never checked. What you think? > >>>>> Tom Jenkins > >>>>> M17 Scintilla > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:35:36 -0700 > > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > > To: <john(a)eco-living.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > Message-ID: <CB1FB5223DC8446CBE791C095D8A19D1@jerryws10> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type="response" > > > > John- what do you paddle, out of curiousity? > > > > jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Schinnerer" <john(a)eco-living.net> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:57 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 > > > > > >> In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the > >> difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - > sounds > >> like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and > >> distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of > >> heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability. > >> > >> Terminology...go figure! > >> > >> cheers, > >> John S. > >> > >> On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >>> Tom: > >>> > >>> more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just > >>> roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her > >>> heeling. > >>> > >>> M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. > >>> > >>> > >>> :: Dave Scobie > >>> > >>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dave, > >>>> Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years > >>>> to use that word. > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. > >>>> i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a > >>>> P15 or P19. > >>>>> > >>>>> the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from > >>>> about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 > >>>> deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape > >>>> 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have > >>>> her leaning to one side. > >>>>> > >>>>> hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different > >>>> on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and > >>>> starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> :: Dave Scobie > >>>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dave, > >>>>>> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails > >>>> best > >>>>>> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, > >>>> but I > >>>>>> never checked. What you think? > >>>>>> Tom Jenkins > >>>>>> M17 Scintilla > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> - Eco-Living - > >> Whole Systems Design Services > >> People - Place - Learning - Integration > >> john(a)eco-living.net > >> http://eco-living.net > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > > SPAMfighter has removed 6728 of my spam emails to date. > > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > > > Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) > > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: aspens are trembling outside my window > > Message-ID: > > <1340740925.96334.YahooMailClassic(a)web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > going sailing on your boat is best idea shared by any of us today!!! :-) > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: > >> > >> Dave, > >> Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average > >> direction of travel.? That would be poor > >> tracking.???I have not sailed an M15, but as > >> John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its > >> weight.? Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my > >> window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of > >> the computer. > >> Tom > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:01:22 -0700 > > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Message-ID: <542BA21D-91FF-4789-B5A2-9B96E322BB51(a)comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent > > hopes... > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > > > >> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved > doing > > this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in > these > > wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. > >> > >> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control > (yes, > > rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. > >> > >> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > > moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving > in > > relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > (as > > noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. > >> > >> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - > >> > >> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and > > cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if > > you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > be > > sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). > >> > >> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. > > this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when > > sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. > >> > >> > >> :: Dave Scobie > >> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >> > >> > >> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> can someone tell me how much wind it > >>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > >>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the > >>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > >>> take > >>> Thanks > >>> KLaas > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:15:07 -0500 > > From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Message-ID: > > < > CAFS5qAs+spg4m3czePcOjUthh_X77-+5aF9gBBDfdjpFX8rMKQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > > > > Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > > > > Jeff Johnston > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > wrote: > > > >> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent > >> hopes... > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> > >>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved > >> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. > >> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. > >>> > >>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control > >> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. > >>> > >>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > >> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving > in > >> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > > (as > >> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. > >>> > >>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - > >>> > >>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and > >> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. > if > >> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > > be > >> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). > >>> > >>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. > >> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when > >> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. > >>> > >>> > >>> :: Dave Scobie > >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> can someone tell me how much wind it > >>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > >>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the > >>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > >>>> take > >>>> Thanks > >>>> KLaas > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > *Jeff+* > > Mol?n labe! > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:52:26 -0700 > > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Message-ID: <0CD48FC8164349C2AC783D9694EDF838@jerryws10> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > > reply-type="original" > > > > I've always used a P log! > > > > jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > > > > > I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > > > > Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > > > > Jeff Johnston > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > wrote: > > > >> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent > >> hopes... > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >> > >>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved > >> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. > >> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. > >>> > >>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control > >> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. > >>> > >>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > >> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving > in > >> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > >> (as > >> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. > >>> > >>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - > >>> > >>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and > >> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. > if > >> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should > >> be > >> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). > >>> > >>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. > >> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when > >> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. > >>> > >>> > >>> :: Dave Scobie > >>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> can someone tell me how much wind it > >>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > >>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the > >>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > >>>> take > >>>> Thanks > >>>> KLaas > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > *Jeff+* > > Mol?n labe! > > > > > > -- > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > > SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. > > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > > > Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:03:25 -0700 > > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Message-ID: <316ED3E4-DC68-475B-A458-3FDECB6C6139(a)comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Doesn't that measure water temperature too? > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > > > >> I've always used a P log! > >> > >> jerry > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com > > > >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > >> > >> > >> I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > >> > >> Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > >> > >> Jeff Johnston > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > wrote: > >> > >>> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent > >>> hopes... > >>> > >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >>> > >>>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved > >>> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times > longer. > >>> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. > >>>> > >>>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control > >>> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. > >>>> > >>>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > >>> moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving > > in > >>> relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > > (as > >>> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. > >>>> > >>>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - > >>>> > >>>> * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin > and > >>> cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. > if > >>> you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you > should > > be > >>> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). > >>>> > >>>> * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 > degrees. > >>> this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best > when > >>> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> :: Dave Scobie > >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> can someone tell me how much wind it > >>>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > >>>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the > >>>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > >>>>> take > >>>>> Thanks > >>>>> KLaas > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> *Jeff+* > >> Mol?n labe! > >> > >> > >> -- > >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > >> SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. > >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > >> > >> Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 11 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:59:15 -0700 > > From: Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> > > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > Subject: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > Message-ID: <4FEA68F3.2080309(a)gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > > got me thing about tiller extensions again. > > > > What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > > > > Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > > used that one? > > > > Thanks > > Don M15-248 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 12 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:20:23 -0700 > > From: Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > Message-ID: <B7ADE2EC-6CA6-4FE3-B8AF-C3C8754FC488(a)surfbest.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but > not > > sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and > easy to > > grip. > > > > Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to > have a > > loyal following. > > > > Neil > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward > > got me thing about tiller extensions again. > >> > >> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > >> > >> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > used > > that one? > >> > >> Thanks > >> Don M15-248 > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 13 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:24:51 -0400 > > From: "Tod" <htmills(a)zoominternet.net> > > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > Message-ID: <00d101cd540c$08177c30$18467490$@net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > BuscaBrisas came with a Davis Tiller Tamer, and I wouldn't wish that on > > anyone. > > > > Tod > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > >> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of > >> Neil Dorf > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:20 PM > >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > >> > >> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" > >> but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is > >> comfortable and easy to grip. > >> > >> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to > >> have a loyal following. > >> > >> Neil > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight > >> forward got me thing about tiller extensions again. > >>> > >>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > >>> > >>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > >> used that one? > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Don M15-248 > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 14 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:51:31 -0700 > > From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > Message-ID: <-3834993404011304567@unknownmsgid> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Tiller clutch baby! > > > > Daniel > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: > > > >> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but > > not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and > > easy to grip. > >> > >> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to > have > > a loyal following. > >> > >> Neil > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight > forward > > got me thing about tiller extensions again. > >>> > >>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > >>> > >>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > used > > that one? > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Don M15-248 > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 15 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:29:44 -0700 > > From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > Message-ID: <12E6629EA4BE4F9F8FFE5C27EA37EC1F@Mike> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > Hello Don: Just went out and measured my forespar tiller extension and > it is > > > > 27 inches long and extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am > not > > > > sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked very well for > me > > as it is useable as far forward as one can sit in the cockpit. I just > > recently purchased a tiller clutch and have installed it but have not > sailed > > > > with it yet. > > > > Mike Hall > > M15 167 "Dreki" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich(a)gmail.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension > > > > > >> Tiller clutch baby! > >> > >> Daniel > >> > >> On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: > >> > >>> I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" > but > >>> not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable > and > >>> easy to grip. > >>> > >>> Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to > >>> have a loyal following. > >>> > >>> Neil > >>> > >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight > forward > > > >>>> got me thing about tiller extensions again. > >>>> > >>>> What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out. > >>>> > >>>> Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone > >>>> used that one? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Don M15-248 > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 16 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:39:14 -0700 > > From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > > Message-ID: <5A4F716F24D546938935F9EE4118AF9C@Mike> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area > that > > installs main sail luff slides. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Hall > > M15 167 "Dreki" > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 17 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > > Message-ID: > > <1340772225.33011.YahooMailNeo(a)web184506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Baxter and Cicero 9496427238 in Costa Mesa > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Beowulf <beowulf2(a)cox.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:39 PM > > Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides > > > > Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area > that > > installs main sail luff slides. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Hall > > M15 167 "Dreki" > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 18 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:44 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Stan Susman <stanpfa(a)pacbell.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > Message-ID: > > <1340772764.28832.YahooMailNeo(a)web184501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > yes and depth limited to 2 feet > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:03 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > > > > Doesn't that measure water temperature too? > > > > On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > > > >> I've always used a P log! > >> > >> jerry > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff(a)gmail.com > > > >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind > >> > >> > >> I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. > >> > >> Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. > >> > >> Jeff Johnston > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo(a)comcast.net> > wrote: > >> > >>> Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log".? So much for my patent > >>> hopes... > >>> > >>> On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: > >>> > >>>> i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved > >>> doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times > longer. > >>> in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. > >>>> > >>>> if you can steer the M15 you are moving.? she will have helm control > >>> (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. > >>>> > >>>> i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is > >>> moving i will spit over the side.? i can then see if the boat is moving > > in > >>> relation to the spit.? this is better than moving the tiller needlessly > > (as > >>> noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. > >>>> > >>>> i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - > >>>> > >>>> * SIT FORWARD.? be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin > and > >>> cockpit.? if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat.? > if > >>> you don't have a tiller extension get one.? (FYI, this is how you > should > > be > >>> sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). > >>>> > >>>> * sit on the leeward side.? the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 > degrees. > >>> this is especially true in light winds.? the M15 is not at her best > when > >>> sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> :: Dave Scobie > >>>> :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > >>>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas(a)telus.net> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> can someone tell me how much wind it > >>>>> takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > >>>>> tide , so I can't tell what is making me move ,? the > >>>>> wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > >>>>> take > >>>>> Thanks > >>>>> KLaas > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> *Jeff+* > >> Mol?n labe! > >> > >> > >> -- > >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > >> SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. > >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > >> > >> Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan > > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > montgomery_boats mailing list > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 > > ************************************************ > > > > > > >

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