December 2006 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

shrouds and stays
by Bobbie Mayer 10 Dec '06

10 Dec '06

And what is the stemhead fitting? Bobbie

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shrouds and stays
by Jay Townley 10 Dec '06

10 Dec '06

I thought I'd pass this info along. I suspect you already know all of this, but I find it interesting to note the difference between shrouds and stays! Shrouds are rigging, line or wire, that are on port and starboard sides and support the mast. It is redundant to say "side shroud". A backstay is a line or wire extending from the top of the mast to the stern. A forestay is a line or wire that runs from a point below the top of the mast to the stemhead fitting on the bow. A headstay runs from the top of the mast to the stemhead fitting.

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Re: M_Boats: M15 Pop up Rudder
by LUDLOWD2＠aol.com 09 Dec '06

09 Dec '06

Hi Guys Hope every one had a nice holiday. I got to sail Sunday and noticed that the bungie that holds the pop up rudder is in poor condition from the southern sun. Does anyone know what the replacement bungie is? (size, manufacturer, etc) and does anyone have a suggestion as to how to go about replacing it. It looks like a simple thread through and knot but getting the tension right might be a problem. Don in Mobile M-15 # 620 Sweet Dream

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Small Craft Advisor
by Steve & Diana Parsons 09 Dec '06

09 Dec '06

Todd and all the others on the Chesapeake trip, I just got my SCA issue with your write-up. Sounds like you had a great time, on great boats with great people. Thanks for taking the time to get it in print. Who knows maybe some of us left coasters may even make it out for a future rendezvous. Steve Tyree and John Schnepel also had nice articles. Regards, Steve

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New owner - almost
by David W. Wood 05 Dec '06

05 Dec '06

> I noticed the solar panel on Hideaway 2 > on the forward hatch and was wondering what kind it was, any clues? It looks like the same kind that I have on my M-15: a Unisolar 11- watt flexible solar panel. But I don't know if it's still available. I had a hell of a time finding one last spring, and finally located one (the last one they had) at a place up in Alaska. It may be discontinued. But I may also be full of beans (or something like that). David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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New owner - almost
by Mark Rulli 05 Dec '06

05 Dec '06

Howdy, My name is Mark and I just ordered a new 17 from Bob, it will probably be ready in January. The name will be "Jolly Mon" and the home port will be Brickyard Cove in Pt. Richmond, Ca. I've already learned alot from this forum and am looking forward to small boat sailing. I currently sail a Pacific Seacraft 25, but wanted something that was easily trailered to the Sea of Cortez. I noticed the solar panel on Hideaway 2 on the forward hatch and was wondering what kind it was, any clues? Hope everyone has a good holiday. Mark Rulli

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Ramblings!....
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 04 Dec '06

04 Dec '06

Helen, Well, your situation sounds very similar to the one we encountered when we purchased Dauntless in Florida. That's not to say that I know that your problem is the same as ours was, but it certainly could be. We hauled Dauntless on the boatyard's massive forklift. Like your boat, she did not have a trailer and had spent the last 25 years in the warm Florida/Texas salt water. After hauling her, we pressure washed her and then retracted the swing keel with no problems. She was placed on the new trailer and transported to her new home in AZ. A couple of months later I was ready to tackle the blister job and also wanted to remove the swing keel to replace the pennant, the pivot, and stop pins. When we hoisted her to remove the swing keel and set her on work stands the swing keel was stuck, and I mean stuck, in the up position. I finally got the keel down and removed it. I was amazed at how much and how thick the rust was on the cast iron swing keel itself. It had not looked that rusted when I inspected it in Florida. I suspect that after the bare metal was exposed to air it rapidly began to rust. The rusty areas scaled up and I think that that was the majority of the cause for the sticking of the swing keel. I think that I could have probably just sandblasted the swing keel and refinished it (which we did) and then just left it at that, re-installed it and it probably would have worked fine had there not been water in the keel itself. After the rust was removed by the sandblasting I'd estimate that the swing keel was a good half to three quarters of an inch thinner than it was with all the rusty scale attached. The reason that I became aware of the water in the shoal draft keel's ballast areas was because of the blister job. There was a large ugly blister on the side of the keel that just refused to dry out. Even after I ground it out like all the other blisters that had dried, it just kept weeping this nasty black stuff. Finally, after months of waiting for it to dry, I decided to grind it out until I got to dry glass. Upon doing so the bit in the Dremmel tool broke through into the ballast cavity. Immediately, gallons of salt water started pouring out of the hole and I knew I had big trouble. The boat had been out of the water for months and here was all this salt water pouring out! Ugh! As soon as I saw that I knew I had to get the water out so I drilled some more quarter inch inspection holes in various areas of the keel and most had water coming out. At this point I though I'd let it drain, then pump compressed air through the compartment for a week or two to dry it out and then seal it back up and call it good. I could see some shiny ballast in a few of the holes. It looked like shiny nail heads. Within hours of pumping the compressed air into the holes the metal was no longer shiny but rusty looking. After confering with a number of folks, including Bob Eeg and Jerry Montgomery himself, I took a magnet across the hole and some of the ballast jumped right to it. That confirmed it was steel washer punchings, not the more desireable lead. Now knew I had even bigger trouble. Thats when I decided to go for broke, remove and replace the old rusty steel with new lead rather than just seal it back up and have it continue to rust causing the swing keel to stick and or cracking the keel later on down the road as it swelled. As for how long it took and the cost. Well, I'm sure a professional could have done the job faster and better. One thing that I did do , though, that took the most patience (which I don't have much of!) was to wait. I opened the keel up on both sides, got the old wet ballast out and let it sit for quite a while to dry out. I wanted the fiberglass on the inside to be as dry as possible before sealing it back up, hopefully forever. The keel was open for around 4 months in our extremely dry enviorment ( average humidity here is extremely low). The actual removal and replacement of the ballast could probably be done fairly quickly by someone with more skills than myself, but I would really suggest that if you do a job like this or the blister job that you give the boat ample time to dry out. If not, you'll be back doing blisters again for sure. I guess only time will tell how dry I really got her. So far, so good. Costs? Well, I had a big surprise coming. I thought I'd be able to scrounge scrap lead to make my own ballast but this turned out not to be the case. After a lot of shopping around I ended traveling to Phoenix picking up 1200 lbs of lead shot from a cartridge company. That cost me close to $1000.00 with travel costs included (a cost I was totaly not anticipating). Then there was all the glass/resin. Fortunately for me, I moonlight at a West Marine store locally. I used a gallon of epoxy resin for the glass work and 7 or 8 gallons of polyester resin to mix with the lead shot. Plus I used the more expensive Bi-Axial fabric and tape to repair the "windows" I cut in the keel. If you were paying retail for all that you'd probably be into it for at least 3-4 hundred bucks if not more by the time you purchase all the little stuff (squeegees, brushes, gloves, sandpaper, etc). And..that doesn't include the barrier coat and bottom paint to complete the job. If you are gonna tackle a big job on your boat, do yourself a favor and get a part-time job at the ol' West Marine nearby. You won't believe what the mark-up is on that stuff! I don't make cra# for and hourly wage but I more than make up for it in the discounted items I am constantly purchasing. I think I covered most of the details of the repairs on the website. Would it work on your 17. Honestly, I'm not sure. I never had to do it to my 17 so I never really looked at it that close. I would imagine it would be very similar. If you don't have any reason to believe that the ballast compartment of the keel is flooded I'd start by removing the swing keel, sandblasting it, fairing it, and epoxying it. Then seeing if that was the problem. This is under the assumption that you have a cast iron keel and not the later version that is encapsulated in fiberglass. Look at my site on the swing keel removal page and see how much thinner the keel was after refinishing. The thickness of the rusty scale was amazing. If I though or was worried about water in the ballast cavity....I'd probably drill a few small inspection holes in it down low and see if I got water back out. If not, it's an easy repair and if so.....well, then you have some decisions to make. Also, Steve Shenkel in Phoenix documented the removal and repair of his 17's swing keel which he aptly name the Keel-a-Monster. He'd probably be a good source for info as would Randy Graves. Steve's site is http://members.cox.net/slsail/ and Randy's site is http://sailing.gravesfam.us/default.aspx and there are also some other owners who have pics documenting swing keel work on the MSOG photo site by Bill Lamica at http://www.msogphotosite.com/ As for the water under foot in the cabin. When I sold my 17 to Jason he went inside with a hose to clean it out spic and span. When he did that he managed to get water between the liner and the hull. The water would squeeze out through the stress cracks in the floor of the cabin where the floor turns up into the back of the v-berth when you stepped there. The floor was getting weak at that location and was flexing under the weight of being stood on. He finally cut a section of the floor out of the liner, dried everything up and then re-glassed the floor down making it solid to the hull and elimiating any flexing of the floor. Is it possible that the water you have under the liner came from inside or is it coming up through the keel or hull??? It seems to me that the ballast area on the 17 was covered over when we cut the floor out of the liner on Jason's 17. The water he had under the floor was all from the inside, not from outside. One sure fire way to know is to see if it is salt water or fresh water. If it's salt it's getting in from outside somehow, maybe through the keel, maybe not. My toe rail leaks when beating hard to weather and it gets submersed. (I know I know I still have to fix that!). But, if you find fresh water in there and the boats floating in salt you can probably be pretty sure that it's not coming up through the ballast or keel. Even though my ballast cavity was leaking and full of water, we had no water in the bilge from the keel leak. Those two compartments were isolated from each other on Dauntless. I know that was long winded. Email me( nebwest2(a)aol.com )offline if you have any other questions about what we did to repair Dauntless or if I can help in any way. Some of the stuff we did might apply to your 17 and some might not. That way I won't tie up the message board with all my blabber! Good luck....and don't get depressed. These boats are awesome. The more I sail them the more I love them. They're worth the effort! Sean

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Christmas
by Bobbie Mayer 04 Dec '06

04 Dec '06

Does anyone else decorate their boat for Christmas? Mine is parked in the driveway at my cabin and I will raise the mast and put light rope fore and aft, and green light rope on one side and red along the other. (I tried it once with old fashioned bulbs in Washington and the wind banged it to death, but light rope works well.) Anyone buying themselves a great Christmas present for the boat? Bobbie

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Re: M_Boats: Ramblings!....
by bownez＠juno.com 03 Dec '06

03 Dec '06

Larry, You folks are going to have a tremendous time in the San Juans. If you get 4 M23's to attend, you'll have 20% of the ones ever made! If I wasn't planning on the North Channel cruise, this would be a perfect opportunity to fly out, charter that Dana in the AYC fleet, and join the party. Keep up the good work fearless leader. Bones Great posts, guys! You know what's another benefit from this list? Actually getting together to sail and check out all the Montgomery's in person! So here's the deal. First week of June, San Juan Islands, a full week of cruising through one of the most beautiful areas you'll ever see, and you get to do it with some really nice people who also sail Monty's. If you have any desire of making this cruise, join us this coming summer. We already have 16 boats signed up, including four M23's and a good mix of 17's and 15's. This may be our last big San Juan cruise for a while, so don't put it off another year. Contact me if you want to be added to the San Juan planning e-mail list. Larry Yake M17 #200

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Re: M_Boats: Ramblings!....
by Larry E Yake 02 Dec '06

02 Dec '06

Great posts, guys! You know what's another benefit from this list? Actually getting together to sail and check out all the Montgomery's in person! So here's the deal. First week of June, San Juan Islands, a full week of cruising through one of the most beautiful areas you'll ever see, and you get to do it with some really nice people who also sail Monty's. If you have any desire of making this cruise, join us this coming summer. We already have 16 boats signed up, including four M23's and a good mix of 17's and 15's. This may be our last big San Juan cruise for a while, so don't put it off another year. Contact me if you want to be added to the San Juan planning e-mail list. Larry Yake M17 #200 CornDog "In a power boat you get there faster. In a sailboat you're already there."

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