December 2006 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Traditional Compass vs GPS: The Reults are in and Tabulat ed......The Winner Is!!
by David W. Wood 29 Dec '06

29 Dec '06

Connie, you are perhaps the most shining example of why this forum is such a great place. There's so much free advice and help for us newbies, and so little of the intemperate ranting that seems so pervasive in most internet chat sites. A big pat on the back to you and all the others who take the time to help all of us enjoy our Montgomerys. But I will take the time to do a little reading before hitting you with questions. If I can pare away most of the stupid questions first, what I do finally ask might have more relevance to others here. So please heave to while I rummage around the book shelf. And thanks again for the offer! David > Hi David, > > Just pepper away with your questions. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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Re: M_Boats: Traditional Compass vs GPS: The Reults are in and Tabulat ed......The Winner Is!!
by chbenneck＠juno.com 28 Dec '06

28 Dec '06

Hi David, Just pepper away with your questions. About the only positive thing about getting old is that you have run aground often enough, reefed often enough, wrestled with non functioning engines and water pumps, gone through the dinghy drill - big, too tough to tow; go smaller. Then it becomes; but it can't hold four adults (teenagers are adults, weight wise); then you try an inflatable.... So, the only thing an old salt can pass on is his experiences and reasons for making the choices he did. Why reinvent the wheel? Don't hesitate. Raise the questions, and if I can't answer a specific one, at least I may be able to point you in the direction of someone who can give you the answer. May 2007 bring you almost nothing but broad reaches (an occasional slog to windward breaks the monotony), and always a hands breadth of water under your keel, where ever you sail. Connie

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Traditional Compass vs GPS: The Reults are in and Tabulat ed......The Winner Is!!
by David W. Wood 28 Dec '06

28 Dec '06

Thanks for that authors list and answers, Connie. I could pepper you with more questions, but the list is endless. So I'll surf on over to Amazon and catch up on some reading instead. It ain't exactly sailing weather outside right now anyway. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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Miles under your keel, Thank You for sharing your experiences
by Hughston, Larry 28 Dec '06

28 Dec '06

Connie, You are our encyclopedia. Thanks, always worthwhile to read your comments.... --Larry hull# 189 in Sacramento still polishing "la Purisima". (Dad sailed for a short time on the Union Oil tanker "la Purisima" for Union Oil in the early 1930s on the California coastal region.)

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Re: M_Boats: Traditional Compass vs GPS: The Reults are in and Tabulat ed......The Winner Is!!
by chbenneck＠juno.com 27 Dec '06

27 Dec '06

Hi David, Obviously, I've repeated what you already know. Sorry, ..... But I have yet to find one that offers more than a passing nod to the more mundane skills a decent sailor ought to know, like doing laundry with salt water, keeping clean, disposing of waste at a marina (or elsewhere), ... Doing laundry with salt water We've gone on cruises for two to three weeks and could make-do with our laundry. If you go into a marina, they usually have a coin laundry (with fresh water) where you can clean clothes in a very short space of time - it just takes a handful of quarters. If you are on the hook, I recall somebody that used a 5 gallon pail on a line that hung over the side. As the boat rolled, the clothes were agitated in the bucket (using salt water soap). A "Sun Shower" does a good job for showering on board. The sun heats the water as the bag lies on the cabin top (make sure to tie it so it doesn't slide overboard); then hoist it on a halyard, press the valve and enjoy a warm fresh water shower. If you are bashful - in the middle of a harbor - then get a shower curtain, and shower curtain ring. Rig this in the cockpit, and Voila, a nice hot shower in total privacy. Works great. Connie Marinas also have their own showers and toilets which you get to use for the price of your night's tie-up costs, which solves the "disposing of waste at a marina problem". If you're lucky (as we are in New England), you might be able to buy lobsters or fresh fish there as well. But, half the fun of sailing is arriving at a new destination, and then exploring it.

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Re: M_Boats: David Wood... book suggestions?
by chbenneck＠juno.com 27 Dec '06

27 Dec '06

Hi David, There are lots of excellent books out there on sailing, sailing problems, and solutions to them. See any of the Hal Roth books - or the Hiscox books - or the Pardey books They all cover cruising and cruising problems: - boat hulls - rigs - accommodations - sails - engines - dinghies / outboards / and equipment - anchors / anchoring / problems and solutions - on board living - food storage - clothing storage - living on board - cooking - ways to conserve your water supply / and how to refill your tanks when it rains ... and what works and what doesn't - and most importantly, why they reach their conclusions. Many of these books are really reference books. Books to turn to when you have a problem and want to know how the people with lots of blue water miles under their keels solved the same problem, ....and why they chose that specific solution. You can learn from the most experienced sailors, even if you only sail on lakes or bays. - their reefing methods give you a lot of know-how. Then there is another sort of book that gives you all sorts of clever ideas to use on your boat; - Bimini - chart tables - storage tricks - how to simplify something Again, useful books that can supply lots of ideas and "how to" suggestions. Happy reading, Connie

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Re: M15's mast rake
by Steve R. 27 Dec '06

27 Dec '06

John: A little rake is a good thing: see remarks by Jerry Montgomery below. A few typos were corrected and references to "death traps" were eliminated. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY ************************************ Date: 18 Sep 1997 If you have too much helm it means that your mast is raked too much, even though the 17 sails best upwind with a fair amount; maybe about a foot, depending on your sails. I always tuned the mast by raking it back until I had a little helm; just a light "power steering feel. Jerry ************************************ Date: 24 Jul 1998 Try raking the mast to pick up a bit of helm, even in light air as long as you have a little heel. The 15 and 17 both will go faster upwind and point higher if you get the mast rake right. In a drifter, sit to leeward to get the heel. Do this mast adjustment in stages until you go too far, then back off. Jerry ************************************ Date: 10 Dec 1998 Leave the 15 rig a little loose. Forestay tension will come from load on the mainsheet, that way, when you ease the mainsheet (light air or a reach) the luff of the jib will relax a little and the sail will become fuller. This is an advantage of a bendy, 3/4 rig. If you pre-load the standing rigging you won't have this advantage. The reason that slack rigging worked on the Windmill, and many other triangle-rigged boats, probably including the 15, is so that on a run or stalled-out broad reach the mast can flop forward which will make the boat go faster. On the wind, the forestay will determine the mast rake, and nearly all well-designed boats will sail better upwind with the mast raked a fair amount. Notice the "well designed"- some boats will pick up a heavy helm before the optimum rake is reached. To simplify, as a generality, boats will sail upwind faster with the rig raked aft, and they will sail off the wind faster with the rig leaning forward slightly. If you can dig up an old copy of PERFORMANCE ADVANCES IN SMALL BOAT RACING by Stuart Walker (1969, W.W. Norton), it will explain this, and a zillion other interesting things. This book was one of my bibles about 30 years ago and things haven't changed much. I only raced the 15 a few times (and against pretty lazy fleets) and don't claim to know the boat that well in terms of speed potential, but I tune boats by playing around with mast rake until I have a light weatherhelm on the wind in light air with the boat heeled a little. Sit way forward and on the lee side. Don't even bother until you get the new sails; it's impossible to tune a boat right with bagged-out sails because no matter what you do the boat won't go upwind. Hope this helps. Jerry ******************************* Date: 06 Jun 2000 I can only guess at the mast rake, but I can tell you how to set it up. You want a little weather helm upwind at all times. In light air, sit on the lee side of the obat, if needed, to heel it (another guess) about 8 or 10 degrees. If you don't have a touch of helm, rake the mast another hole and try again until you get it. If raked right, assuming good sails, the boat will point higher and go faster. The difference between poor and perfect is remarkable. Jerry ******************************* Date: 16 Jun 2000 > Jerry, Is this how to set up a 17 also? Yes, and a 23 also, and most other well-balanced boats, too. Jerry ******************************* My #361 has a distinct rake aft. Is that normal? My shrouds go to the after hole in the chain plates. (The former owner had lifting hooks in the forward holes which I removed as catching hazards for the jib sheets.) Is a lot of rake normal, or should I move the shrouds to the forward hole? John Butler

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Re: M15's mast rake
by John Butler 27 Dec '06

27 Dec '06

My #361 has a distinct rake aft. Is that normal? My shrouds go to the after hole in the chain plates. (The former owner had lifting hooks in the forward holes which I removed as catching hazards for the jib sheets.) Is a lot of rake normal, or should I move the shrouds to the forward hole? John Butler Do it now. You can't do it any younger! .--.-. ( ( )__ (_, \ ) ,_) | '-'--`--' \ _ / -== (_) ==- ^^ / \ ^^ | | /|\ / | \ / | \ /361| \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ /________| \ _____|__ \_ ~^~_~^~_-~^~=~^~~_______/ ==== \_______/ ~^~-~^~_~^~=~^~-| /~^=~^~^~^ =`^~^`^~ ~^~ ~^=~^~_~-=~^-=~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/^~_~^=~^~=~ ~^~-~^= ~^~ ~^=~^~_~-=~^~ ^ `--------------'~^~=~^~_~^=~^~=~ ~^~-~^= ~^~=~ ~^=~^~ ~^~^=~^~-~^~ ~^~=~^~^~ =~^~^=~^~^=~^~^ =~~`~^ ~^~= ~^~= ~~^~~`=~``^~^^~= ~^=~^~^~^ =`^~^`^~^=~^~-~~^ John Butler - Sailing again. Praise the Lord!

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David Wood... book suggestions?
by David W. Wood 27 Dec '06

27 Dec '06

Thanks Mike, I dug around on Amazon and found that book as well as another one that came highly rated "Sea-Steading: A Life of Hope and Freedom on the Last Viable Frontier" by Jerome FitzGerald. I'll order them and see if they have the answers to all of my many questions. I'm sure most of those sorts of questions get answered by fathers or uncles or some other sailor/mentor. But I'm having to learn all this from books or through hard lessons. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 > Hi David, > > Along the lines of "The Complete Walker" and more like the "Whole > Earth > Catalog" is a fun sailing guide that I have from the 70's titled > "Sailing > the Farm: A Survival Guide to Homesteading on the Ocean" by Ken > Neumeyer. > It is out of print, but you can find used ones for sale at Amazon > Books. > The author lived for several years on a 30 foot sailboat in the > Caribbean > islands and has lots of useful tips about bartering, extended > storage of > food items, foraging, drawings of edible seaweed, solar stills, > medical > emergencies, etc. It is an entertaining read and really appeals to > one's of > adventure. It is not comprehensive, but it does contain a lot of > practical > information that I have not seen anywhere else. > > Mike

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RE: M_Boats: Traditional Compass vs GPS: The Reults are in andTabulated......The Winner Is!!
by Hughston, Larry 26 Dec '06

26 Dec '06

Mr. Durant, I could not agree with you more. I have been taking the Power Squadron classes for a couple of years now and I love it. Great instructors and the cost of the classes for members are the books and basic equipment for the course. The Nav classes were my favorite. Now I know more so I can forget more! Glad I joined.....-Larry (Sacramento) -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov@mailman.xmiss ion.com] On Behalf Of Frank Durant Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:54 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Traditional Compass vs GPS: The Reults are in andTabulated......The Winner Is!! Probably THEE best investment you can make in boating is a " power squadron " training coarse. You'l get rules of the road,marine law,basic boat handling,aids to navigation and good basic navigation skills....great organization!! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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