Late last night, after work, I finally got my mail for the first time in a few days (long story), and as expected, it included my Amazon package with A Cruel Wind (tpb), The Tower of Fear (mmpb), and the just-released A Fortress in Shadow (tpb). This latter is identical in format to A Cruel Wind, and is a handsome publication. The Steven Erikson introduction is highly amusing. And...the Glen Cook list of titles in the front is updated! (though not to include Cruel Zinc Melodies) So, for the Dread Empire, it mentions *A Cruel Wind*, and in parentheses says, Containing *A Shadow of All Night Falling*, *October's Baby*, and *All Darkness Met*. For *An Empire Unacquainted With Defeat*, it says parenthetically that is a "Short Fiction Collection". And for *The* *Wrath of Kings*, it states in parentheses, "Containing* Reap the East Wind* and *An Ill Fate Marshalling, and Wrath of Kings*"! (it seems that it once read "Containing *Reap the East Wind* and *An Ill Fate Marshalling*," and that "*and Wrath of Kings*" was added later, and somewhat sloppily, especially since the last word "and" is italicized like the book titles) So it certainly appears that Wrath of Kings as a book has been added to the Wrath of Kings omnibus, as I and others have speculated for a while might happen! We can't read too much into this, no pun intended, but it left me very excited when I noticed this just before going to bed last night. Hopefully some sort of confirming news is released soon, happy reading in the meantime!
parenthetically that is a "Short Fiction Collection". And for *The* *Wrath of Kings*, it states in parentheses, "Containing* Reap the East Wind* and *An Ill Fate Marshalling, and Wrath of Kings*"! (it seems that it once read "Containing *Reap the East Wind* and *An Ill Fate Marshalling*," and that "*and Wrath of Kings*" was added later, and somewhat sloppily, especially since the last word "and" is italicized like the book titles)
So it certainly appears that Wrath of Kings as a book has been added to the Wrath of Kings omnibus, as I and others have speculated for a while might happen! We can't read too much into this, no pun intended, but it left me
That would be wonderful news but I'm still skeptical. It's just great that they're rereleasing all of these books that are out of print though. Steve
On Nov 7, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Steve Chew wrote:
That would be wonderful news but I'm still skeptical. It's just great that they're rereleasing all of these books that are out of print though.
Steve
The italics could just mean that the final title is "And the Wrath of Kings". Plenty of chapter titles in the Dread Empire series start with "And..." -- Michael Llaneza maserati@speakeasy.net
I would love to see another Dread Empire novel - and I curse the "fan" that stole the draft manuscript from Glen Cook's home. Hopefully, with the re-issues, the series will have the sales needed to restart. As an aside, many years ago there was a brief window when the Dread Empire series might have gone mainstream. TSR was looking at republishing it as part of a D&D setting. At the time, I was wondering WTF (because the magic and combat systems are completely different) and nothing ever came of it. Richard
On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Richard Chilton wrote:
As an aside, many years ago there was a brief window when the Dread Empire series might have gone mainstream. TSR was looking at republishing it as part of a D&D setting. At the time, I was wondering WTF (because the magic and combat systems are completely different) and nothing ever came of it.
GURPS would be a closer fit. You couldn't do Haroun properly with any rules TSR ever published. And Mocker would be a mess of multi-classed confusion. How many points would having the Harish as an enemy be worth anyway ? -- Michael Llaneza maserati@speakeasy.net
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>wrote:
GURPS would be a closer fit. You couldn't do Haroun properly with any rules TSR ever published. And Mocker would be a mess of multi-classed confusion.
How many points would having the Harish as an enemy be worth anyway ?
This would have been around the early days of second edition, but those rules wouldn't have been workable for the magic. In most of Cook's worlds, there seems to: Amateurs (who know a few tricks) - a level or two of a magic using class in D&D, or GURPS. Average professions - who can make a living at magic - which pushes the envelop of GURPS. Big Guns in Training - more talent and education than the average pro. Big Gun - Say the Taken or the General Wizards of the Dread Empire World Breakers - Lady, Dominator, and ... darn - I forget the name of the Empire Breaker (guy who took down the Empire of the West). It's on the tip of my tongue, and I'm sure I'll remember it as soon as I hit send. GURPS can handle the professional wizard, but the basic magic system can't handle the "RUN! GET THE ARMY RUNNING! HE'S ON THE BATTLE FIELD!" style of wizardry of the big guns and beyond. But anyway, TSR was in discussions with Glen Cook's agent about that, but it didn't come off. Not that game fiction is all that close to the games involved - reading most D&D novels, you have to wonder why this band of heroes can't find a 5th level cleric (could be wrong about that level, but well below 10th) to raise their dead friend. Game mechanics are routinely sacrificed for drama, and Dread Empire could have fit into some Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk clone. Richard
Back to The Wrath of Kings, An Empire Unacquainted With Defeat will be released in a few weeks (Amazon still lists November 15, but Nightshade Books says "coming in December"). Glen is supposed to provide a detailed introduction, so maybe the status of the lost manuscript will be addressed there. I don't plan on purchasing the hardcover, so anybody who does buy or otherwise examinea copy, please let us know asap if The Wrath of Kings is discussed! Thanks in advance! On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>wrote:
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>wrote:
GURPS would be a closer fit. You couldn't do Haroun properly with any rules TSR ever published. And Mocker would be a mess of multi-classed confusion.
How many points would having the Harish as an enemy be worth anyway ?
This would have been around the early days of second edition, but those rules wouldn't have been workable for the magic.
In most of Cook's worlds, there seems to: Amateurs (who know a few tricks) - a level or two of a magic using class in D&D, or GURPS.
Average professions - who can make a living at magic - which pushes the envelop of GURPS.
Big Guns in Training - more talent and education than the average pro.
Big Gun - Say the Taken or the General Wizards of the Dread Empire
World Breakers - Lady, Dominator, and ... darn - I forget the name of the Empire Breaker (guy who took down the Empire of the West). It's on the tip of my tongue, and I'm sure I'll remember it as soon as I hit send.
GURPS can handle the professional wizard, but the basic magic system can't handle the "RUN! GET THE ARMY RUNNING! HE'S ON THE BATTLE FIELD!" style of wizardry of the big guns and beyond.
But anyway, TSR was in discussions with Glen Cook's agent about that, but it didn't come off. Not that game fiction is all that close to the games involved - reading most D&D novels, you have to wonder why this band of heroes can't find a 5th level cleric (could be wrong about that level, but well below 10th) to raise their dead friend. Game mechanics are routinely sacrificed for drama, and Dread Empire could have fit into some Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk clone.
Richard
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Marc Rikmenspoel <marcrik@gmail.com> wrote:
Back to The Wrath of Kings, An Empire Unacquainted With Defeat will be released in a few weeks (Amazon still lists November 15, but Nightshade Books says "coming in December"). Glen is supposed to provide a detailed introduction, so maybe the status of the lost manuscript will be addressed there. I don't plan on purchasing the hardcover, so anybody who does buy or otherwise examinea copy, please let us know asap if The Wrath of Kings is discussed! Thanks in advance!
I have it pre-ordered from www.chapters.indigo.ca, which lists it as shipping November 1, 2008... Odd - looking at the book's page there's a "Temporarily Unavailable to Order New" note on it. Maybe there is a problem? Glen Cook has talked about that lost manuscript several times - he only has one page of it left. Alas, since it was written before the days of Word Processors (or at least before Glen Cook switched from typewriter to computer) there's no back ups. All because he used to invite fans into his home. In a way the missing book is responsible for Glittering Stone books. After investing so much time and effort into the Dread Empire book that was never published, Cook decided not to work on books that his agent hadn't sold yet. When there was confusion over Tower of Fear, Silver Spike, and The Books of the South (Cook thought he had sold a stand along (Tower), a Black Company book (The Silver Spike), and a Black Company Trilogy when he only a deal for a stand alone and three Black Company books) Cook stopped working on the Glitter Stone, put away all thoughts on it, and went on to other books. If that mistake hadn't been made (or Cook had finished the book then) then The Glittering Stone would have been a single book. It would have been good, but it wouldn't have been the saga that was eventually published. Richard Richard
I also show a pub date of Nov 1 through Baker and Taylor. -- S On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>wrote:
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Marc Rikmenspoel <marcrik@gmail.com>wrote:
Back to The Wrath of Kings, An Empire Unacquainted With Defeat will be released in a few weeks (Amazon still lists November 15, but Nightshade Books says "coming in December"). Glen is supposed to provide a detailed introduction, so maybe the status of the lost manuscript will be addressed there. I don't plan on purchasing the hardcover, so anybody who does buy or otherwise examinea copy, please let us know asap if The Wrath of Kings is discussed! Thanks in advance!
I have it pre-ordered from www.chapters.indigo.ca, which lists it as shipping November 1, 2008...
Odd - looking at the book's page there's a "Temporarily Unavailable to Order New" note on it. Maybe there is a problem?
Glen Cook has talked about that lost manuscript several times - he only has one page of it left. Alas, since it was written before the days of Word Processors (or at least before Glen Cook switched from typewriter to computer) there's no back ups. All because he used to invite fans into his home.
In a way the missing book is responsible for Glittering Stone books. After investing so much time and effort into the Dread Empire book that was never published, Cook decided not to work on books that his agent hadn't sold yet. When there was confusion over Tower of Fear, Silver Spike, and The Books of the South (Cook thought he had sold a stand along (Tower), a Black Company book (The Silver Spike), and a Black Company Trilogy when he only a deal for a stand alone and three Black Company books) Cook stopped working on the Glitter Stone, put away all thoughts on it, and went on to other books. If that mistake hadn't been made (or Cook had finished the book then) then The Glittering Stone would have been a single book. It would have been good, but it wouldn't have been the saga that was eventually published.
Richard
Richard
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
The sooner the better but since Nightshade are the ones actually publishing the book their "coming in December" is probably the most accurate. Steve
I also show a pub date of Nov 1 through Baker and Taylor. -- S
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>wrote:
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Marc Rikmenspoel <marcrik@gmail.com>wrote:
Back to The Wrath of Kings, An Empire Unacquainted With Defeat will be released in a few weeks (Amazon still lists November 15, but Nightshade Books says "coming in December"). Glen is supposed to provide a detailed introduction, so maybe the status of the lost manuscript will be addressed there. I don't plan on purchasing the hardcover, so anybody who does buy or otherwise examinea copy, please let us know asap if The Wrath of Kings is discussed! Thanks in advance!
I have it pre-ordered from www.chapters.indigo.ca, which lists it as shipping November 1, 2008...
Odd - looking at the book's page there's a "Temporarily Unavailable to Order New" note on it. Maybe there is a problem?
Glen Cook has talked about that lost manuscript several times - he only has one page of it left. Alas, since it was written before the days of Word Processors (or at least before Glen Cook switched from typewriter to computer) there's no back ups. All because he used to invite fans into his home.
In a way the missing book is responsible for Glittering Stone books. After investing so much time and effort into the Dread Empire book that was never published, Cook decided not to work on books that his agent hadn't sold yet. When there was confusion over Tower of Fear, Silver Spike, and The Books of the South (Cook thought he had sold a stand along (Tower), a Black Company book (The Silver Spike), and a Black Company Trilogy when he only a deal for a stand alone and three Black Company books) Cook stopped working on the Glitter Stone, put away all thoughts on it, and went on to other books. If that mistake hadn't been made (or Cook had finished the book then) then The Glittering Stone would have been a single book. It would have been good, but it wouldn't have been the saga that was eventually published.
Richard
Richard
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
-- Steve Chew - schew@interzone.com - http://www.interzone.com "The opossum is a very sophisticated animal. It doesn't even get up until 5 or 6 pm."
On Nov 7, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Steve Chew wrote:
The sooner the better but since Nightshade are the ones actually publishing the book their "coming in December" is probably the most accurate.
Steve
Please god, let there be another Dread Empire novel. That is all. -- Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1951
Nah, nah--Raise Dead is a 5th level spell, takes a 9th level Cleric. I figure the Company Wizards as about 4th level (can't make Fireballs), so a 9th level anything would be pretty rare to run across. I got the Black Company 220 Gaming System book in August (gaming store had an auction, got it for about $10). Lots of fun reading it, though it's full of typos; wasn't proofed very carefully. I think it might be fun to run a BC campaign, maybe following the Company's exploits through the first book. Emphasis would be on "You Can't Trust Nobody". Steve/Stacey On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>wrote:
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Michael Llaneza <maserati@speakeasy.net>wrote:
GURPS would be a closer fit. You couldn't do Haroun properly with any rules TSR ever published. And Mocker would be a mess of multi-classed confusion.
How many points would having the Harish as an enemy be worth anyway ?
This would have been around the early days of second edition, but those rules wouldn't have been workable for the magic.
In most of Cook's worlds, there seems to: Amateurs (who know a few tricks) - a level or two of a magic using class in D&D, or GURPS.
Average professions - who can make a living at magic - which pushes the envelop of GURPS.
Big Guns in Training - more talent and education than the average pro.
Big Gun - Say the Taken or the General Wizards of the Dread Empire
World Breakers - Lady, Dominator, and ... darn - I forget the name of the Empire Breaker (guy who took down the Empire of the West). It's on the tip of my tongue, and I'm sure I'll remember it as soon as I hit send.
GURPS can handle the professional wizard, but the basic magic system can't handle the "RUN! GET THE ARMY RUNNING! HE'S ON THE BATTLE FIELD!" style of wizardry of the big guns and beyond.
But anyway, TSR was in discussions with Glen Cook's agent about that, but it didn't come off. Not that game fiction is all that close to the games involved - reading most D&D novels, you have to wonder why this band of heroes can't find a 5th level cleric (could be wrong about that level, but well below 10th) to raise their dead friend. Game mechanics are routinely sacrificed for drama, and Dread Empire could have fit into some Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk clone.
Richard
_______________________________________________ glencook-fans mailing list glencook-fans@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glencook-fans
On Nov 7, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Steven Harris wrote:
Um, Black Company d20 Gaming System.
Steve/Stacey
That's a good sourcebook, typos and all. I like the magic system they came up with, more free-form than straight d20 D&D. And when I'm telling people about the Black Company, I can mention that the Dominator was a level 75... and got put down by somebody smarter than him. Figure the Princes Thaumaturge for about 60 ? -- Michael Llaneza maserati@speakeasy.net
The magic system they used was a hybrid of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG one. Most of my feelings on the magic system can be found at: http://www.glencook.org/index.php/Review_d20 It's been a while since I looked at it, but read Lady's write up again. I could be wrong, but under those rules she shouldn't have been able to reach her rank without being Taken, which she wasn't. Oh - and if you can ever convince a DM to allow you to play a "dominator" character (with the bonus stat adds and the rest), do it! That little write up where you get all those bonuses (2 stat adds every three as opposed to one every 4) is ridiculously over powered. Richard
Richard Chilton wrote:
It's been a while since I looked at it, but read Lady's write up again. I could be wrong, but under those rules she shouldn't have been able to reach her rank without being Taken, which she wasn't.
The magic system was also clearly a victim of the same thing that produced all those typos. In several instances, the color text for a particular spell talent references a Taken using that spell, but the Taken stats later in the book indicate that Taken doesn't possess that talent. The game relies more on the d20 spell balancing than it does on Cook's novels. I always figured the best way to run a BC campaign would be to start the players out in Lady's army, have them survive the eastern front but not make it to Charm, and then let them sweat the prospect of having to go up against the Company themselves... That would also allow you to explore a few of the Taken who weren't fleshed out in the books. David
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:34 PM, David Ainsworth <Narsham@charter.net> wrote:
The magic system was also clearly a victim of the same thing that produced all those typos.
In several instances, the color text for a particular spell talent references a Taken using that spell, but the Taken stats later in the book indicate that Taken doesn't possess that talent.
It's not just the Taken - it's been a while, but either Silent's or One-Eye's character sheet was missing a spell he had used in the book. The whole "Spell = Feat" thing was good for play balance, but lousy when it came to representing what the characters did in the stories. It took the magic system from "One-Eye came up with something new, so Goblin adapted his spell to do blah" and made it much more rigid. The Company's witch men were very good at adapting magic and using it in odd ways, but the characters in that RPG just couldn't do that.
I always figured the best way to run a BC campaign would be to start the players out in Lady's army, have them survive the eastern front but not make it to Charm, and then let them sweat the prospect of having to go up against the Company themselves...
That would also allow you to explore a few of the Taken who weren't fleshed out in the books.
That's a major complaint I have about that source book - they didn't list the stats for the Ten. Yeah, it gives the DM the ability to customize, but even with published stats a DM can customize. I can see not giving the stats for every soldier and making a generic template for Lady's New Taken (other than Whisper (and maybe Feather/Journey) those new ones were far weaker than the Old Taken) - but leaving out the ones for the Ten? Most RPGs have a big problem dealing with one of the big effects of the Taken - the fear. Everyone they fought knew that the Ten had been buried alive for centuries, that they had once been the iron fist of the Domination (a regime whose cruelty exceeded stories about hell). During the Battle of Charm, one thought kept going through the Rebel mind - we haven't faced Her yet. We've fought the Ten (and - gulp - they're all here facing us), but will our armies survive Lady's power? I think the best system to represent the Taken might be Rolemaster - they did the One Ring and the whole Lord of the Rings stuff (sadly out of print and replaced by something inspired by Warhammer). Any system where you have the stats for Gandalf and Sauron could handle Lady and Dominator. But ICE didn't license the Black Company, Green Ronin (who have a relationship with Warhammer) did, so that's what was made. Richard
participants (7)
-
David Ainsworth -
Marc Rikmenspoel -
Michael Llaneza -
Richard Chilton -
Scott Bonner -
Steve Chew -
Steven Harris