"You don't need to call it music if the term offends." and I've got this Tudor recording of 'Variations II" that kicks unholy ass. I don't see how anyone could listen to Zorn's 'Classic Guide to Strategy' and not see a direct connection to a Cagey aesthetic.
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> To: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> CC: proussel@ichips.intel.com, zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: Cage on Jazz Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:21:50 -0700
Herb,
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:49:26 -0500 Herb Levy wrote:
I can understand Patrice not liking Cage's music. Based on your comments from the past eight years or so, I'd be surprised if there were many pieces by Cage that ever interested you. But, for better or for worse, since Cage's death, there's actually been a tremendous growth in the number of performances and recordings of Cage's music. I get press releases and flyers from new music presenters and ensembles from all over the States and a smattering of such from other countries & his music is being performed a LOT right now.
It's even true here in Fort Worth, which is entirely NOT a hotbed of new music activity. If there were more than 2 concerts of music entirely composed after 1945 in any given year, it'd be a miracle. (& there's virtually no improvised music here at all.) But among the scattered 20th century works that have been performed by the Symphony and various resident and touring ensembles in the 3-4 years I've lived here, Cage is the second most performed composer (after Copland) with 7 performances that I know of.
There are very few prolific composers who were primarily active after WWII who have as high a percentage of works for which there are more than one recording in print. Even labels dedicated to producing new music have to be concerned about sales, so someone's buying these things.
I guess I am more impressed by the general indifference (and when I say general, I do not mean the people in the street, but the ones who really love music and are curious about it) than by the few signs about a possible raising interest in Cage. I can't remember any of my friends deeply in love with experimental music ever saying anything positive about Cage's music (with exceptions for his early pieces). It's all about anecdotes (the silent piece), the scandals (WILLIAM MIX), the weird ideas (CARTRIDGE MUSIC, use of chance methods), etc. This is in fact a constant with Cage: people who are in his music rarely say a word about the music itself and mainly talk about his motives, or ideas/philosophy. With Cage, the wrapping is the message. The music is almost an obscene appendix that always fails to meet the level of expectations raised by the argumentation. I wonder sometimes why Cage ended up musician; he could have applied his technique to practically any form of art since it conveys nothing truly musical. And this is for me the problem: there is little (or no) music in Cage's collection of sounds. His motives go against 99.999% of the music ever produced on Earth.
I made many Cage tapes over the years. They were asked by friends who were concerned that they might have missed something (and these are people not affraid of getting their music on the spicy side). The result was polite indifference and puzzlement at all the fuss that was made about that music. But his books keep on being entertaining.
It is ironic that two of the icons of XXth century music (Cage and Boulez) might be mainly remembered for anything but their music :-).
Patrice.
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On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:10:36 -0400 "Crowmeat Bob" wrote:
"You don't need to call it music if the term offends."
and I've got this Tudor recording of 'Variations II" that kicks unholy ass. I don't see how anyone could listen to Zorn's 'Classic Guide to Strategy' and not see a direct connection to a Cagey aesthetic.
But I love almost everything Zorn did in the 80's and even after more than twenty years of giving-the-benefit-of-the-doubt I still can't think of a composition by Cage that I could not live without (as you see, I put the threshold a little bit higher than "interesting"). I am not saying that Cage music is bad, but simply that it is disposable. In fact, I love specially Zorn when the "hooks" are more obvious, like rock in LOCUS SOLUS, quoting in GODARD, etc. In clear, when he moves even further away from Cage's aesthetic. As far as CLASSIC GUIDE TO STRATEGY, I see it more like a response to Euro improv (the Bailey/Parker school of non-idiomatic improv). And it is so powerful on delivery that I would never see it as owing anything to Cage (but I could be wrong). And if you read early Zorn, he does not buy that chance operation stuff at all! That's Zorn who was wondering why everybody was giving B.J. to Cage, no? In short, although Cage is an influence on Zorn, I am still wondering if the influence is not simply on the conceptual level (even Frith, when talking about Cage's influence, mainly mentions his books). Patrice.
participants (2)
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Crowmeat Bob -
Patrice L. Roussel