From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Things I just don't get To: zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com
In general, the electronic field does not speak to me- if they could turn their knobs and hit the keyboard in a way that did- I'd say they are as virtuoso as anyone with a more traditional instrument- but they don't. For me. Maybe you can recommend someone that does this kind of thing with an obvious passion- the Ayler of laptops! :~)
That's perfectly OK. Not every music is going to appeal to everybody. Several years ago I listened exclusively to free jazz and got rid of most of my old rock records, which I still don't miss. At that time, I doubt seriously than any electronic experimental music would have done much for me. That said, the one e/a artist who I find most exciting and interesting is Otomo Yoshihide, who we often discuss in these parts. This guy's catalogue is as diverse as they come and his music is simply inspired to say the least. If there's an Ayler of laptops, I'd say it's him.
I guess I should have just said I don't care if he's avant-garde or not, I thought I did though.
If we do away with the word altogether, that's fine by me. It's lost almost any capacity to describe anything anymore. It only describes what cannot be described and what few people are capable of listening to.
The point is the term means little to me- you and Remco can define it up and down, tell us who fits in it and doesn't- and it still won't. That term sounded like some kind of a blessing you give an artist, hence I got the impression you were interested more in innovation.
I am interested in innovation, and I find the most innovative stuff in e/a improv. That isn't to say that I still don't love free jazz. I still buy it. I cut my teeth on it, and I still appreciate its history. But for me, the best stuff in the area has past. I'm not as excited by many of the newer artists working in this "genre." It doesn't offer very many surprises anymore--to me at least.
So now we've spent several exchanges figuring out that Vandermark isn't avant-garde, and it hasn't changed anything, because no one really said Vandermark isn't avant-garde, but they LIKE him. So I'll say it- Vandermark is not avant-garde, and I like him. Maybe we're all happy now.
Well hopefully it at least clarified what was meant in the previous discussion. Since the term "avant-garde" has a history and a specific, precise meaning, it's important to see it in its proper sense. Jackson Pollack was once avant-garde. Abstract expressionism was once avant-garde. But a contemporary artist who works in the prevalent styles of abstract expressionism, no matter the salient quality of his work, is not avant-garde. He or she is simply working within a particular trope that has become familiar. The same goes for free improv in jazz--show me an artist who's doing something truly avant-garde in jazz. I've heard most and they're all working within a particular category and even a style. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
I hope this will become truth: John Zorn will be a special guest of this year's ARS CAMERALIS SILESIA SUPERIORIS art festival in Katowice, Poland. It's scheduled for the fall 2002. He agreed to visit because Hans Bellmer, who's art Zorn admires for years (just look at Naked City's Absinthe cover art), was born in Katowice before WW2. Silesia region is and industrial, middle-south region of Poland, actually, a very special zone influenced by both polish and german culture, but during last 50 years of comunism, speaking about the german roots was almost forbidden, therefore Bellmer was not known here at all. I live in Katowice and I have learned about Bellmer via Zorn and the cover art of NC! All fans in Poland are looking forward to see him here, visitors are welcome, since Zorn didn't play at the _continent_ for 3years (I guess), and the performance must be something special (since Bellemr is the excuse to come), this will be a unique event. More info about Katowice at http://www.um.katowice.pl/eng/index.php, if you want to come and need some more practical information feel free to contact me. __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl/muzyka
This is very cool news, and it might be worth the travel to Poland. Let's spread the news all over Europe, and see if there are some programmers interested in building a little Zorn tour around his Polish schedule!!! Regards, Remco Takken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@emd.pl> To: <zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 5:10 PM Subject: John Zorn live in Poland
I hope this will become truth: John Zorn will be a special guest of this year's ARS CAMERALIS SILESIA SUPERIORIS art festival in Katowice, Poland. It's scheduled for the fall 2002. He agreed to visit because Hans Bellmer, who's art Zorn admires for years (just look at Naked City's Absinthe cover art), was born in Katowice before WW2. Silesia region is and industrial, middle-south region of Poland, actually, a very special zone influenced by both polish and german culture, but during last 50 years of comunism, speaking about the german roots was almost forbidden, therefore Bellmer was not known here at all. I live in Katowice and I have learned about Bellmer via Zorn and the cover art of NC! All fans in Poland are looking forward to see him here, visitors are welcome, since Zorn didn't play at the _continent_ for 3years (I guess), and the performance must be something special (since Bellemr is the excuse to come), this will be a unique event. More info about Katowice at http://www.um.katowice.pl/eng/index.php, if you want to come and need some more practical information feel free to contact me.
__________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl/muzyka
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participants (3)
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Artur Nowak -
Bill Ashline -
Remco Takken