Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:58:27 -0700 From: skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Remember -- punk rock failed largely because it started out as an alternative to corpo-rock, but, the moment most of these bands did real well in the indie marketplace, they signed to major labels, hooked up with the established rock booking agencies, and played established rock venues. It didn;t replace anything. That punk rock has become the new corpo-nostalgia means only that those records sold better than any of us were told.
I think it was a little more complicated than that with UK punk and its ties to corporate culture. Remember, the Pistols and the Clash were on major labels, not indies (unless you count Virgin at that time). Same with the Stranglers and the Jam. At the same time, these initial bands did have kindred spirits in many other bands who flocked to indies which were sprouting up all over the place. This had a snowball effect as this encouraged other subsequent indie labels to start up. By the time that Rough Trade went from a record shop to a record label (around '78), they had effectively established a network of distribution around the country as was starting to happen in the States. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine with warped perspectives http://www.perfectsoundforever.com
on 6/10/03 11:08 AM, Perfect Sound Forever at perfect-sound@furious.com wrote:
I think it was a little more complicated than that with UK punk and its ties to corporate culture.
Remember, the Pistols and the Clash were on major labels, not indies (unless you count Virgin at that time). Same with the Stranglers and the Jam. At the same time, these initial bands did have kindred spirits in many other bands who flocked to indies which were sprouting up all over the place. This had a snowball effect as this encouraged other subsequent indie labels to start up. By the time that Rough Trade went from a record shop to a record label (around '78), they had effectively established a network of distribution around the country as was starting to happen in the States.
Unfortunately, very few of the bands who started out on indies stayed in indie-land if they started to make some headway in the marketplace. Unfortunately, it was the very thing to which you point up -- the corpo-culture ties -- that defined punk rock's truer stance, which was that a new generation of rock stars had indeed arrived. I have it on really good authority that the Clash's management was in a bit of a bidding war with several labels and that it was largely based on if a Sex Pistols record was actually going to be released etc etc etc and that a lot of money and promotional consideration was revolving around whose record would come out first. Remember -- as great as the Sex Pistols' music was, their public presentation was designed and executed by Malcom McLaren, a fella whose artistic integrity is not on par with Tim berne's. sh
skip Heller wrote:
on 6/10/03 11:08 AM, Perfect Sound Forever at perfect-sound@furious.com wrote:
Unfortunately, very few of the bands who started out on indies stayed in indie-land if they started to make some headway in the marketplace.
Even worse, most of them couldn't stick around long enough to sell out! ;-)
Unfortunately, it was the very thing to which you point up -- the corpo-culture ties -- that defined punk rock's truer stance, which was that a new generation of rock stars had indeed arrived.
Yeah, I guess that is true as they quickly had their own hegemony.
I have it on really good authority that the Clash's management was in a bit of a bidding war with several labels and that it was largely based on if a Sex Pistols record was actually going to be released etc etc etc and that a lot of money and promotional consideration was revolving around whose record would come out first. Remember -- as great as the Sex Pistols' music was, their public presentation was designed and executed by Malcom McLaren, a fella whose artistic integrity is not on par with Tim berne's.
All true I'm sure. The same was true of Gang of Four also though they did start out with an indie (Fast). However, the Pistols, Clash and Go4 were still able to make great, influential music for the big bad majors. Conversely, some indies behave more badly to their acts than majors do (i.e. SST, Sympathy for the Record Industry, ESP) though they do give these acts a chance to record and be heard. Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine with warped perspectives http://www.perfectsoundforever.com
on 6/10/03 11:38 AM, Perfect Sound Forever at perfect-sound@furious.com wrote:
All true I'm sure. The same was true of Gang of Four also though they did start out with an indie (Fast). However, the Pistols, Clash and Go4 were still able to make great, influential music for the big bad majors.
It was a nice period -- largely cuz the majors had NO IDEA what was happening and allowed some stuff to happen. (But I confess that I don't think of the Clash as all that great.)
Conversely, some indies behave more badly to their acts than majors do (i.e. SST, Sympathy for the Record Industry, ESP) though they do give these acts a chance to record and be heard.
As Dave Alvin once said -- "It's a question of whether you want to be f**ked up the ass by a guy with a big dick or a small dick". As for giving bands a chance to be heard, my personal experiences with Long Gone John of Sympathy, while limited, lead me to believe that it's not worth being heard if that's the kind of person with whom you have to deal. sh
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