If I could piggyback on this thread.... I was wondering if there are any substantial ties between the improv musicians in Europe and socialism/communism. A week or two after purchasing one of Paul Rutherfords ISKRA cds, I came across the word ISKRA in Lenin's "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder." Apparently it is the name of a pre-Revolutionary journal edited by Lenin, Plekhanov, and others. Anyone have more info (maybe Bill Ashline if he is still around)? I grew up in the 80s and recall sitting in a movie theater watching "Rocky IV" and the whole audience erupted in a "USA! USA!" chant during the big fight. But even that seems naive when compared with to the pre-Fascist times we live in now. I am addicted to news punditry and like to check out right-wing talk shows when travelling. The worst I've heard is Michael Savage, who advocates imperialism (his words) in the Middle East and South Africa (which he claims is the world capital of "infant rape". Apparently in the Savage world, Nelson Mandela is a "thug", and while he (S) is not for apartheid, clearly "these people don't know how to run their own country"). The Arabs are "diaperheads" who run around in "dirty bedsheets" and the college students against the war "Should go back to their bathhouse, we know what their agenda is." Thanks, Ben
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> To: "Benito Vergara" <bvergara@sfsu.edu>, "Zorn List" <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> Subject: Re: books on my bedside table (no JZ content) Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:37:29 -0400
For my recent non-fiction slogging, I'm slowly working through Francois Furet's Passing of an Illusion, a history of the idea of communism. I grew up in the USA in the 50s and 60s, where the worst thing you could call someone was a commie. This book gives me an extremely interesting context for that attitude, although so far (just finishing WWII) it has been much more Eurocentric than directly related to events in the US. It's a very nice addition to the series of 'history of the 20th century' books I've been reading over the last few years, including the likes of Hobsbawm and Johnson.
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Ben Axelrad wrote:
If I could piggyback on this thread....
I was wondering if there are any substantial ties between the improv musicians in Europe and socialism/communism. A week or two after purchasing one of Paul Rutherfords ISKRA cds, I came across the word ISKRA in Lenin's "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder." Apparently it is the name of a pre-Revolutionary journal edited by Lenin, Plekhanov, and others. Anyone have more info (maybe Bill Ashline if he is still around)?
In Eastern Europe there were no ties between jazz and communism. Jazz was generally dismissed as "the degenerate music of rotting imperialism". In Poland before '56 jazz music has been played undergroung and this period is called as "catacumb era". After '56 ties were less strong and jazz was tolerated. But - definitely jazz music were free from any "red" inclinations contrary to the USA musicians (e.g. Charlie Haden, Paula Bley, Archie Shepp et al.) Yes - ISKRA (the Spark) was illegal journal in Russia. Jerzy
Ben: I think you'd find that most of the initial European improvisers like Bailey, Prévost, Parker, Oxley, Watts, Stevens, Rutherford, Brötzmann, Schiano, Van Hove et. etc. would describe themselves as socialists, a perfectly respectable word in Europe, and Canada come to think of it. Only a couple may have been communists. But recall that in Europe that party is legal and participates in the electoral process as well. How much of collectivist thought was transmitted to the music is probably the focus of many PhD theses. Ken Waxman --- Ben Axelrad <soulfrieda@hotmail.com> wrote:
If I could piggyback on this thread....
I was wondering if there are any substantial ties between the improv musicians in Europe and socialism/communism. A week or two after purchasing one of Paul Rutherfords ISKRA cds, I came across the word ISKRA in Lenin's "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder." Apparently it is the name of a pre-Revolutionary journal edited by Lenin, Plekhanov, and others. Anyone have more info (maybe Bill Ashline if he is still around)?
I grew up in the 80s and recall sitting in a movie theater watching "Rocky IV" and the whole audience erupted in a "USA! USA!" chant during the big fight. But even that seems naive when compared with to the pre-Fascist times we live in now
===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________________________ Movies, Music, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca
On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Ken Waxman wrote:
I think you'd find that most of the initial European improvisers like Bailey, Prévost, Parker, Oxley, Watts, Stevens, Rutherford, Brötzmann, Schiano, Van Hove et. etc. would describe themselves as socialists, a perfectly respectable word in Europe, and Canada come to think of it.
Only a couple may have been communists. But recall that in Europe that party is legal and participates in the electoral process as well.
Tim Hodgkinson (Henry Cow) was (still?) communist, and I had the feeling that he was not the only one. Keith Rowe seemed also of the left of the Socialist party (but a party can accomodate various extremes :-). Patrice.
Only a couple may have been communists. But recall that in Europe that party is legal and participates in the electoral process as well.
Last time I checked, (Of course this was before the office of homeland security) The CP was actually a legal and recognized party in the US as well, and fielded candidates in many elections (Remember Gus Hall.....yeah, I know, my grey hairs are showing) And as Patrice pointed out, the whole Henry Cow axis had marxist leanings. One only need to take a casual glance at the lyrics to the Art Bears album "The World As It Is Today" Rich
There is a great interview of Tom Waits in the Onion: http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3820/avfeature_3820.html Where he quotes a Soviet propaganda poster of the 1930's that says: "Today you will play jazz, tomorrow you will betray your country." Of course, he could very well have made this up, but it's a great quote anyway. Julien
Hello Pom, Tom Waits didn't make this up. This poster (or at least its slogan) was used in Soviet. The history of Soviet jazz is as strange and complicated as the history of Russia in XX-th century. At first jazz was accepted partly because it was proclaimed as protest music of the poorest black people who are still suffering in the capitalistic hell. The other reason was that this music was new, and the whole idea of the revolution aimed to destroy old order and to build the new one. (For example, one of the most famous quotes was "to kick off Pushkin of the ship of the present".) But very soon Soviet official art became conservative in all possible ways. There was no more space for jazz in that situation. It was the time when that slogan was born. The other one said that "jazz is the fat people's music". By that time jazz was "ideologically alien element" to socialist realism, which was the only acceptable form of art. That's why jazz musicians in Soviet Russia or even their listeners were associated with anti-communist movement both by themselves and by authorities. In post-Gorbachev era this situation changed. There are no barriers for jazz in Russia now except financial ones. Even though jazz musicians are still far from radical political ideas, some of them are much closer to communist or socialist ideas as they were before. As an example, I would like to mention saxophonist Sergei Letov. One of the leaders of Russian creative jazz, who played with Sergei Kuriokhin, "Tri O", Valentina Ponomareva, Sainkho and others, Letov now stays on socialist positions. He is not, though, as strong as his brother "Russian punk" singer-songwriter Egor Letov, who turned from being anti-communist to become radical communist. Sunday, June 9, 2002, you wrote to me: P> There is a great interview of Tom Waits in the Onion: P> http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3820/avfeature_3820.html P> Where he quotes a Soviet propaganda poster of the 1930's that says: "Today you P> will play jazz, tomorrow you will betray your country." Of course, he could P> very well have made this up, but it's a great quote anyway. NP: DJ Logic "The Anomaly" (CD) -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/
participants (7)
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Ben Axelrad -
Jerzy Matysiakiewicz -
Ken Waxman -
Patrice L. Roussel -
Peter Gannushkin -
Pom -
Rich Williams