Sorry this is so late, I'm really behind on digests. Since I've read most of these messages on stealing music, here's my two cents. Not trying to justify any moral position or anything, just how I feel. To use Zorn as an example, I've bought 8 Masada albums, 4 Naked City albums, 4 or 5 various albums like the Gift, Big Gundown, etc...most of them new and some at import prices. I own 2 Zorn CDr's, both in print. Now if he's gonna get bent out of shape cause he didn't collect on those two CD's, then, quite frankly, I'll be happy to trade in all 20 or so Zorn albums I own and destroy the CDr's and never listen or discuss his music again. To illustrate one of Skip's points, I've seen Ellery Eskelin play two performances, one with the Black and Parkins (?) trio and an improvised set with Tom Rainey and Paul Plimley. I really enjoyed the Rainey/Plimley set but was a little disappointed with the accordion trio set. So I'm on the fence. Couple that with the fact that most Eskelin CDs I find in stores are new and imports and it means that I just don't listen to him. If someone were to burn me a whole album (gasp!) and I really liked it, I may or may not buy that burned album but I'll probably buy 4 or 5 other Eskelin albums eventually. It really is true. I guess what I'm trying to say is that (especially for the music discussed on this list) at some point, there seems to be two viewpoints: music as art/communication/spiritual yogurt or music as commodity. I value artists/people who come from the first perspective and support them (even ones I don't like) as much as I can, even if it doesn't mean throwing money at them every chance I get. Do artists only appreciate support if it comes in the form of money? I trust that artists like Eskelin, Zorn, etc. aren't trying to bleed me of every possible penny. I expect that they trust their audience not to be trying to rip them off or "steal" their music. How do you "steal" music anyway? And honestly, I lose respect for artists who would treat their audiences as possible customers/consumers first and listeners/people second. I mean, it's nice to get paid but at least people are listening which I thought was the whole point in the first place. --davy np Captain Beefheart "Safe as Milk" _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail