Fwd: Re: Worst Record ever Made (by someone you normally admire)
Hi, There goes a list of heroes doing awful things (for me). Remco hits the nail in several of his choices! Maybe those records are better than the average, but you expect more from these guys. Just looking at one of my Cd towers I get all of these: -Marc Ribot & Los Cubanos Postizos: "Muy divertido" Pathetic, simply pathetic. An abyss opens between their first and their second release. - Satlah: Any of their two Tzadik releases. I might try to save their live but their music doesn't seem to work. Pretty amateurish attempt to join Coltrane and Jewish tradition. Clumsy. - Fred Frith "Cheap at Half the Price". remco said it all. - Derek Bailey & Susie Ibarra "Daedal". And now they've released a follow-up. Does anyone manage to listen it in one sitting without falling asleep? - Again, Remco... You know I have a tendency to sell Frisell records! - Norman Yamada "Being and Time". What the hell is this? Maybe a musical rendition of boredom in big capitals. Shame on Tzadik for publishing this. - Susie Ibarra "Songbird Suite". I can't understand so much appraisal for this record. Ibarra's drumming is amazing, as was her "Flower after Flower" but there's nothing here! Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Tom Waits "Alice" (Certainly not the worst recording ever made!)
John Zorn: My First Recordings/ wank, wank, can't believe I even bought this Ornette Coleman: Virgin Beauty/ don't know what to say, lame fusion? Chris Potter: Gratitude/ just so conservatory, derivative and over-clever Dave Douglas: Magic Triangle/ just lame jazz Ginger Baker: all of his African Airforce material/ untight ramblings going on and on and on (oops, already sold this stuff!) Lol Coxhill & Pat Thomas: Halim/ yuk jazzdance with a lame beat, and entirely non-swinging. No idea what they intended to do here. Mahavishnu Orchestra: this eighties or early nineties album with the word RADIO in it/ lame fusion with a flat synth drum beat (again: already sold it!) Fred Frith: Cheap at half the price/ trying to be pop, the results sound like a sad wannabe's demo, with a tiny twist
or, coming closer to 'all time worst records ever': The Damned: the album called 'Anything' Ian Anderson: this eighties synthi solo album, preceeding the countless mediocre Jethro Tull Albums.
Regards, Remco Takken
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on 6/30/02 6:05 AM, Efrén del Valle at efrendv@yahoo.es wrote:
Hi,
There goes a list of heroes doing awful things (for me). Remco hits the nail in several of his choices! Maybe those records are better than the average, but you expect more from these guys. Just looking at one of my Cd towers I get all of these:
In the "your heroes fail" category, I have to pick John Zorn -- SPY VS SPY I don't care who wrote the tunes, why do you have to play 'em all the same way? Carla Bley -- NIGHT GLO When great artists try to make large dollars by dumbing it down Herbie Hancock -- FUTURE2FUTURE How much phoned-in noodling can herbie reel off? A whole album's worth. Willie Nelson -- ACROSS THE BORDERLINE Almost entirely made up of great songs for Willie Nelson was exactly the wrong singer, guitar player, and bandleader Glenn Gould -- THE COMPLETE MOZART SONATAS Any record whose liner notes state clearly that the artist hates the material at hand is in trouble. Thelonious Monk & Gerry Mulligan -- MULLIGAN MEETS MONK Mismatch all the way, made even more frustrating by the fact that Sam Jones was never again on a Monk date, and he sounded great on this one. Prince -- CHAOS & DISORDER No wonder Warners let hm out after this. Ugly songs, and really monotonous guitar playing. WALTER BECKER -- 11 TRACKS OF WACK The brains behind the outfit should know enough to hire a f*&king singer! Stevie Wonder -- everything since about 1981 every record has a song here or there, but you always hope... and it never happens Randy newman -- FAUST ... especially if you heard the World cafe b'cast where he played the whole album solo and it was fantastic. But this overproduced pantload pissed me off. Paul Westerberg -- 14 SONGS Sounds stiff and mannered, as if he's trying to make sure we know that he doesn't need the other guys to make Replacements music. next installment -- GREAT ALBUMS FROM PEOPLE YOU NEVER SUSPECTED COULD MAKE GREAT ALBUMS! sh
At 8:16 AM -0700 6/30/02, skip Heller wrote:
In the "your heroes fail" category, I have to pick <snip> WALTER BECKER -- 11 TRACKS OF WACK The brains behind the outfit should know enough to hire a f*&king singer!
Y'know, as much of a Dan fan as I am, I have never gotten around to getting this. But I will agree with your assessment from the way things ground to a halt when he took the mike during the live shows of the last few years. I'm happy for Walter that he likes to sing now. I really am. But I'd prefer it if he didn't share that joy with me. Failing heroes: Tom Verlaine: _The Wonder_. Some good songs (an evaluation I came to after hearing them in other contexts), but the whole thing is just flat to me. Maybe it's the sterile drumming and the general lack of engagement in the playing or something, but it never latched. Tom Waits: _Mule Variations_. Again, some good songs, but the overall feeling to me is one of treading water. Much of the 90s Sonic Youth output. Sorry. Ambitious Lovers: _Greed_. Never let the synth player produce the record. There are others, of course, but I think I'm repressing them at the moment. -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/
on 6/30/02 8:24 AM, Maurice Rickard at maurice@mac.com wrote:
Ambitious Lovers: _Greed_. Never let the synth player produce the record.
man I absolutely LOVED that record. I thought ENVY had about 2 good cuts, and LUST just totally bit it, but I absolutely loved GREED. Agree with you wholeheartedly on MULE VARIATIONS tho. So, around here, we'd both better duck. This crowd gets ugly somethimes. sh
-----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of skip Heller Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:37 AM
Agree with you wholeheartedly on MULE VARIATIONS tho. So, around here, we'd both better duck. This crowd gets ugly somethimes.
Skip and Maurice must be on drugs. One of my favorite Waits albums -- okay, it's not as good as "Franks Wild Years" or "Rain Dogs" or "The Heart of Saturday Night" or "Bone Machine" (it comes in fifth, then) but the worst? Here's my list: - JZ: Cobra Live at the Knitting Factory (never did like the game pieces, except for Xu Feng), Aporias (just didn't work for me) - Bob Dylan: Knocked out Loaded (except for "Brownsville Girl," just miserable) - Pavement: everything after "Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain" has been unlistenable - R.E.M.: everything after "Out of Time." Now I buy their albums with a feeling of joyless obligation, hoping that this one would be better than the next. Instead, it just gets worse and worse. They truly jumped the shark with that "Love Is All Around" cover... - Keiji Haino: that Purple Trap album with Laswell and Ali. Man, is Keiji Haino saving his throwaway releases for Avant/Tzadik or what? (Okay, I really liked the Cohen/Baron trio album...) - Current 93: The Great in the Small. David Tibet's audio collage of everything he's ever released, mixed onto one CD-length track. Utterly pointless. - Kronos Quartet: Caravan (uninspired and sometimes atrocious pieces; the most forgettable of all their releases) All right, I'll shut up now. Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: thewilyfilipino / Yahoo!: sunny70
At 11:26 AM -0700 6/30/02, Benito Vergara wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of skip Heller Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:37 AM
Agree with you wholeheartedly on MULE VARIATIONS tho. So, around here, we'd both better duck. This crowd gets ugly somethimes.
Skip and Maurice must be on drugs.
Wait a second, lemme check. Nope, no drugs in the system.
One of my favorite Waits albums -- okay, it's not as good as "Franks Wild Years" or "Rain Dogs" or "The Heart of Saturday Night" or "Bone Machine" (it comes in fifth, then) but the worst?
Well, after the heights of the early 90s work and that long hiatus afterwards...I found _Mule Variations_ to be a disappointment. Plus there's a _lot_ of material on it. Some editing would have helped. And then when you compare it to _Swordfishtrombones_ and that period, MV really pales. (That said, it's better than many CDs by others, but Waits has set the bar pretty high with his other work.) Oh, yeah--here's another disappointment: Steve Reich's _The Cave_, which starts strong and then very quickly reveals itself as an experiment that just doesn't work, but which he doggedly keeps hammering into the ground. (Haven't heard the record, but I did sit through the installation.) -- Maurice Rickard http://mauricerickard.com/
on 6/30/02 11:26 AM, Benito Vergara at bvergara@sfsu.edu wrote:
Skip and Maurice must be on drugs.
Won't speak for Maurice, but I've been clean & sober ten yrs this October. Personal take on MULE -- "Picture In A Frame", "Big In japan", and "What's He Building" completely outclassed the rest of the disc by such a wide degree that I was even a little pissed at the guy. And don't get me started on the concert tour that went with it. Talk about greed in action... skip h
In the "your heroes fail" category, I have to pick <snip> Failing heroes:
Tom Verlaine: _The Wonder_. Some good songs (an evaluation I came to after hearing them in other contexts), but the whole thing is just flat to me. Maybe it's the sterile drumming and the general lack of engagement in the playing or something, but it never latched.
Yeahmhm, this one makes me think of Robyn Hitchcock's Groovy Decoy album. Fits the same description as above Verlaine album, but add: there's this saxophone player flown in all over the album, and he never fits quite well. I also wonder how many early Bennink/ Mengelberg ICP Orchestra lp's would have made it on this list of bad recordings, were they available. Last friday I saw the 1969 outing ICP 002 for sale, and I was only lucky that I got it for less. Hardly ever play it though. Remco Takken
Bill Laswell: Operazone, Jazzonia, and the horrible Celtic remix disc whose name I (fortunately) can't remember at the moment. Ugh. Laswell has the ability to make some mediocre albums when he's not trying too hard, but these cross the line into the completely, mystifyingly awful. Operazone in particular, it achieves a kind of transcendental awfulness by folding some wonderful playing by Graham Haynes and Jaki Byard and some beautiful string arrangements by Karl Berger into a concept that simply should have never happened. What was he thinking? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of skip Heller Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:17 AM
next installment -- GREAT ALBUMS FROM PEOPLE YOU NEVER SUSPECTED COULD MAKE GREAT ALBUMS!
My favorite example comes to mind: David Sanborn: Another Hand Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: thewilyfilipino / Yahoo!: sunny70
on 6/30/02 11:27 AM, Benito Vergara at bvergara@sfsu.edu wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:zorn-list-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of skip Heller Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:17 AM
next installment -- GREAT ALBUMS FROM PEOPLE YOU NEVER SUSPECTED COULD MAKE GREAT ALBUMS!
My favorite example comes to mind:
David Sanborn: Another Hand
Talk about a fantastic musician with his own style who should have been making great records all along... 'course, it's hard to screw up with Terry Adams on board on so much of the album, plus Joey Baron and them cats. I also nominate the B-52's COSMIC THING. Not that they were bad (first 2 albums were really fun), but this was like a grand slam out of a band who never got past a ground rule double. skip h
next installment -- GREAT ALBUMS FROM PEOPLE YOU NEVER SUSPECTED COULD MAKE GREAT ALBUMS!
ZZ Top: XXX. No, really I mean it, after not making a good record since, what, like 1979, this album, at least the first half, totally rules. Amazing production, they've obviously been listening the Latin Playboys for the simultaneously hi-fi/lo-fi vibe, cool tunes, very interesting use of electronics (for ZZ Top, at least), some hilarious lyrics. The last half of the disc if some pretty tepid live stuff, I usually ignore it. Bonus points for the "File under drum 'n bass n' fuzzy guitar" banner. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------
on 7/1/02 9:19 AM, Dave Trenkel at improv@peak.org wrote:
next installment -- GREAT ALBUMS FROM PEOPLE YOU NEVER SUSPECTED COULD MAKE GREAT ALBUMS!
ZZ Top: XXX. No, really I mean it, after not making a good record since, what, like 1979, this album, at least the first half, totally rules. Amazing production, they've obviously been listening the Latin Playboys for the simultaneously hi-fi/lo-fi vibe, cool tunes, very interesting use of electronics (for ZZ Top, at least), some hilarious lyrics. The last half of the disc if some pretty tepid live stuff, I usually ignore it. Bonus points for the "File under drum 'n bass n' fuzzy guitar" banner.
I gotta concur. ZZ came out of the box with three great albums (Billy Gibbons can really play), then started to suck big time. They were overdue, and, thankfully, not over-ripe. I also nominate Thomas Dolby's ALIENS ATE MY BUICK. Half of it is killing, but I forgot until Mr trenkel shook a cobweb loose. sh NP: Grant Green, HIS MAJESTY KING FUNK
participants (6)
-
Benito Vergara -
Dave Trenkel -
Efrén del Valle -
Maurice Rickard -
Remco Takken -
skip Heller