I really was underwhelmed by the DVD. I felt like that it was sort of an ego trip on the director's part. It just wasn't that interesting, outside of the musical footage.... CL _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Craig Lieske <garbageisland@hotmail.com> wrote: I really was underwhelmed by the DVD. I felt like that it was sort of an ego trip on the director's part. It just wasn't that interesting, outside of the musical footage.... CL Well . . . depends on whether you think the film belongs to Claudia Heuremann (?) or John Zorn. In my view, "Bookshelf" is first & foremost the filmmaker's film; it's her story. If we're talking ego trips, you could easily say that Zorn's work is one great, long extended ego trip. But where does that get us? Ego trips are what make art interesting. For me, the glory of that film is that, in her work as a documentary film maker, she managed to make a work of art out of her obsession. Most of the rest of us have merely bookshelves and CD shelves and video shelves to show for it - all the way up to the sky and heavy with product. That she personalised the film, that she structured it as the story of her quest to get the film made at all, and that she so successfully avoided the straight-ahead, matter-of-fact documentary format that you get all the time on TV, in my humble opinion, made it all the more appealing. When she talks about hearing Torture Garden for the first time & how it changed her life, you immediately think of the first time you heard Zorn & how music was never quite the same ever again. I'm amazed she could limit her stories to 12. There are probably a million stories relating to the work of John Zorn, about the kind of things people do with his music - I used to use Spillane as part of a lesson in narrative tense for English language students, for example - or along with his music, or because of it, or in spite of it, or - you know. What other stories are out there about the influence of Zorn? What have people been moved to achieve, or do, or become, in their own lives because of the sheer inspirational energy of the man & his art? Has his music changed people's life paths in the manner of Claudia Heuermann? I bet I'm not the only one who wants to know. c
Hi, --- COLIN CLARK <colin.clark1@btinternet.com> escribió:
Well . . . depends on whether you think the film belongs to Claudia Heuremann (?) or John Zorn. In my view, "Bookshelf" is first & foremost the filmmaker's film; it's her story.
I think the title is very clear in this respect: "12 Stories about John Zorn". That's not too indicative of what's actually on the film .
For me, the glory of that film is that, in her work as a documentary film maker, she managed to make a work of art out of her obsession. Most of the rest of us have merely bookshelves and CD shelves and video shelves to show for it - all the way up to the sky and heavy with product.
Good intentions aren't enough, never. The fact that I write a piece on John Zorn or whoever doesn't make me any better than someone who just sits in his/her room and listens to "Elegy". The only thing that makes me different is maybe the fact that I'm taking the risk of writing an enormous piece of shit and, therefore, being subject to criticism. You'll never know if the process was efortless or if I was sweating my way through it, but does it matter in the end? Is the piece well-written? Does is accomplish its original intention? That's what counts for me. In Heuermann's case, I RESPECT 100% her efforts to complete the movie, but that doesn't immediately turn it into a good documentary, imho.
That she personalised the film, that she structured it as the story of her quest to get the film made at all, and that she so successfully avoided the straight-ahead, matter-of-fact documentary format that you get all the time on TV, in my humble opinion, made it all the more appealing.
I'm not particularly versed in the documentaries field, but I wouldn't say that "Bookshelf" is particularly original. I think there are too many repetitive scenes that really look like mere fillers (unnecessary, on the other hand); the reenactments I find them unnerving (director doesn't equal actor); and when I'm watching a band performing live I want to SEE the band, and not hear it while I see images of NYC; Zorn's collaborators are critical to his work but, besides remaining unidentified throughout, they weren't interviewed. I'm sure Ribot, Frith, Frisell and all these guys have insightful thoughts on Zorn's work.
What other stories are out there about the influence of Zorn?
None. Being the only documentary on John Zorn doesn't make it essential. What have people been moved to achieve, or
do, or become, in their own lives because of the sheer inspirational energy of the man & his art?
Maybe you should bear in mind that some people just don't feel the need to produce art, which is a very respectable choice, imho. How many movie-freaks do you know who have gotten into film-making or any related fields? That's absurd. I am content with the fact that Zorn has opened an extremely wide field of possibilities: composers, painters, writers, filmmakers, etc... And maybe write a (shitty) review of one of his albums every once in a while. Has
his music changed people's life paths in the manner of Claudia Heuermann?
Maybe more. I have the feeling that she has documented herself a lot but she has missed some very important points. Now I'll wait for "Would you do it any better?" responses. Best, Efrén del Valle ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es
Hi all Just to clear up a few things. Right, so we know the movie isn't perfect. It seems to me, though, that for a lot of Zorn fans Claudia Heuremann's biggest crime was that she made Claudia Heuremann's film - not theirs. Not even John Zorn's. I'm making no judgements about people who collect CDs & books & stuff - hell, I'm one - my point simply was that in making a film about her obsession she seemed to touch on something that Zorn's audience has in common - a obsession or fanatacism (or is it only me?). But whether you though she did that well or badly, OK, that's something we can chew on forever. But I need to clear up the questions I asked at the end: What other stories are out there about the influence of Zorn? I don't mean "what other films" but "what other stories"? Hers isn't the only one. She's just the only one who's filmed hers. What about the guys on the list who are writing JZ's biography, for instance? What's the story there? How did they get into it? What led them to it? Or that collaborative tribute project that was all abuzz last year - what happened to it? Did anyone meet up over a coffee to see where to take it? Or maybe there are people on the list who have found themselves in particular lines of work (used CD dealing, maybe; alternative music journalism, perhaps) directly or indirectly as a result of Zorn's music. You know? Once upon a time there was a guy called John Zorn who made some wild music that got all inside me. Then what happened? Efren says, "Maybe you should bear in mind that some people just don't feel the need to produce art, which is a very respectable choice, imho. How many movie-freaks do you know who have gotten into film-making or any related fields? That's absurd." But, it's not absurd. I'm a writer too. Reading great writers made me want to write. I was listening to a BBC Radio 3 interview of Jan Garbarek last night and he told his story about being turned on by Coltrane's playing and how that led to his own music making. Artists inspire in all kinds of not-absurd ways. Is it absurd that someone should be so moved by Coltrane's playing to pick up a tenor sax? But I'm not just talking about art. Maybe John Zorn's interrogation of his feelings about Judaism has led others to reappraise their own faith - Jewish or otherwise. Perhaps being a fan of his music put you in touch with some great people you would never otherwise have met. Perhaps something in Zorn's creative, collaborative process touched you in a way that changed your view of the kind of potential that exists between and among groups of people. Perhaps it put you on a search of your own for something that was awakened in you. You know, I'm just asking, now that Claudia Heuremann has had her say, what stories do people on the list have about John Zorn? *Their* John Zorn. As I said, there's got to be more than 12. c
<< Right, so we know the movie isn't perfect. It seems to me, though, that for a lot of Zorn fans Claudia Heuremann's biggest crime was that she made Claudia Heuremann's film - not theirs. Not even John Zorn's. >> That's not really what I meant when I said why I didn't like parts of it... rather, I kind of admire the approach of including herself in the doco. It's just that, frankly, she's kind of annoying and parts of it are repetitive and frustrating (one part i remember in particular is her constant repetition of the title and its significance - would have been ok if stated once but over and over just ruins it).
Hi, --- COLIN CLARK <colin.clark1@btinternet.com> escribió: > Hi all
Right, so we know the movie isn't perfect. It seems to me, though, that for a lot of Zorn fans Claudia Heuremann's biggest crime was that she made Claudia Heuremann's film - not theirs. Not even John Zorn's.
I have to insist, Colin, that the movie was entitled "12 Stories about John Zorn"!! But according to what you say below, I think I got your point this time.
I don't mean "what other films" but "what other stories"? Hers isn't the only one. She's just the only one who's filmed hers. What about the guys on the list who are writing JZ's biography, for instance? What's the story there? How did they get into it? What led them to it? Or that collaborative tribute project that was all abuzz last year - what happened to it? Did anyone meet up over a coffee to see where to take it? Or maybe there are people on the list who have found themselves in particular lines of work (used CD dealing, maybe; alternative music journalism, perhaps) directly or indirectly as a result of Zorn's music.
These are very interesting questions, imho. I also wonder if there are some nice stories out there.
But, it's not absurd. I'm a writer too. Reading great writers made me want to write. I was listening to a BBC Radio 3 interview of Jan Garbarek last night and he told his story about being turned on by Coltrane's playing and how that led to his own music making. Artists inspire in all kinds of not-absurd ways. Is it absurd that someone should be so moved by Coltrane's playing to pick up a tenor sax?
In that sense it's not, but some people just don't feel the need to do that or they're inspired in different ways. There's a Spanish guitar in my room, but after coming back from a Ribot show I don't necessarily feel like playing. I'll probably just sit down, relax and listen to some of his own music or write a review as contagious as I can.
But I'm not just talking about art. Maybe John Zorn's interrogation of his feelings about Judaism has led others to reappraise their own faith - Jewish or otherwise.
I'm quite positive that has occurred to several people. Perhaps being a fan of his
music put you in touch with some great people you would never otherwise have met.
That's for sure. I've met (personally or via e-mail) several nice people from this list or have befriended people in my country for the sole fact that they're Zorn fans (that was only the initial bound, of course). Perhaps something in
Zorn's creative, collaborative process touched you in a way that changed your view of the kind of potential that exists between and among groups of people. Perhaps it put you on a search of your own for something that was awakened in you.
In my personal case, Zorn definitely changed the way I view art in general, and since I discovered his music, my tastes have been as democratic as possible, making no distinction between the greatness in Brian Wilson's harmonies or that in the Ruins' stuff, Frank Sinatra or Keiji Haino. It's a great delight to have gotten rid of "classist"-attitudes.
You know, I'm just asking, now that Claudia Heuremann has had her say, what stories do people on the list have about John Zorn? *Their* John Zorn. As I said, there's got to be more than 12.
Certainly. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: FME "12.05.04 Barcelona" ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es
Hi Efren & Listers
I have to insist, Colin, that the movie was entitled "12 Stories about John Zorn"!!
I think we'll have to agree to differ on that one. They're still her stories, it's still her film, despite the title. I suppose she kind of cheated a bit. There are not strictly 12 "stories". 12 chapters, maybe. I see it really as 1 story - her quest to get the film made & how her love for his music has affected her life. It's one that resonates for me. Also, one thing which bugged me a bit - her title kind of alludes to Francois Girard's masterpiece "32 Short Short Films About Glenn Gould" which really does what it says on the label. And it's 100% about its subject in the way that Bookshelf is maybe 70% (I'm guessing) about JZ. As a piece of film, though it's improper to compare them, Bookshelf is not even half the Glenn Gould film (. . . well, she'd need at least 4 more stories for that!) And I agree with the guy who complained about the number of times she goes on about how she got that bookshelf in the sky title. It's a silly title, for sure, but one that sticks, one that makes you ask questions. Maybe it has greater resonance for Germans or something. It certainly reflects Mr Zorn's obsession with cultural capital, tho. All that STUFF he owns, all stacked up on bookshelves. I read somewhere he had to take out his kitchen to make way for more stuff. (His KITCHEN for chrissakes!) c
Hi, --- COLIN CLARK <colin.clark1@btinternet.com> escribió: > Hi Efren & Listers
All that STUFF he owns, all stacked up on bookshelves. I read somewhere he had to take out his kitchen to make way for more stuff. (His KITCHEN for chrissakes!)
That's true. Zorn mentioned that himself in that Bomb Magazine interview. A friend had a brief documentary of Zorn at home and he knows exactly where each and every one of his albums are stacked and, according to what that friend explained to me, there was so much stuff crammed in there that Zorn really had to make an effort to pull the albums out. Huge collections aside, I guess you really have to sell many records to eat out every day in New York. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: Erik Friedlander "Maldoror" ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es
I recently finished a 5.1 mix of the Flaming Lips's Zaireeka. After mixing the four discs to stereo, I thought it would be cool in surround sound. I mixed it to emulate the sound of 4 stereos at 4 corners of the room playing the album. I also included a stereo mix on the DVD for a different experience. After testing it on a guinea pig from the zornlist (he liked it), I thought I would offer it to the rest of the list. Email me off list if you are interested and we can arrange a trade or something. Zach
Hi, --- Andrew Mortensen <andrewm@mail.selc.com.au> escribió: > > n.p: Erik Friedlander "Maldoror"
## what's this like? is it a Tzadik release?
It's wonderful. Someone from the list recommended it to me and he was absolutely right. It's a solo album, inspired by Ducasse's novel. Friedlander improvised over 10 extracts of the book and to my surprise it was a remarkably melodic and accessible album, although the dark connotations bound to Lautremont's work are present throughout. It's on Brassland, a label I didn't know before (and I don't know yet) This one's certainly the best thing I've heard from Friedlander, so I would recommend it to you with eyes closed. Best, Efrén del Valle ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnologÃa de búsquedas ¿te atreves a comparar? http://www.viralbusquedas.yahoo.es
I'm rather enjoying the fact JZ pointed out that the film will have a life of its own once she puts it out for "review". And every one excected something different from the movie .,... THE INTERVIEW. but the showbiz maxim holds... "leave them wanting more" I enjoyed the film for the mystery of JZ and how its elusive to "get to know me, this way anyway" feel. I must say, like most JZ fans probably, were waiting for JZ to make his own "story" as it relates to each of our stories. We want a feeling of connection, interpersonally (or at least i do). Here's the movie I envision.. let's all pitch in $1000 (or whatever) and book a concert/lecture/fireside chat by/with JZ. film it . there'll b y the movie everyone wants.. to hear it first hand queastions from the fans (patrons).. Money well spent. or just listen ----- Original Message ----- From: COLIN CLARK To: Efrén del Valle Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:12 AM Subject: Stories about Zorn Hi Efren & Listers
I have to insist, Colin, that the movie was entitled "12 Stories about John Zorn"!!
I think we'll have to agree to differ on that one. They're still her stories, it's still her film, despite the title. I suppose she kind of cheated a bit. There are not strictly 12 "stories". 12 chapters, maybe. I see it really as 1 story - her quest to get the film made & how her love for his music has affected her life. It's one that resonates for me. Also, one thing which bugged me a bit - her title kind of alludes to Francois Girard's masterpiece "32 Short Short Films About Glenn Gould" which really does what it says on the label. And it's 100% about its subject in the way that Bookshelf is maybe 70% (I'm guessing) about JZ. As a piece of film, though it's improper to compare them, Bookshelf is not even half the Glenn Gould film (. . . well, she'd need at least 4 more stories for that!) And I agree with the guy who complained about the number of times she goes on about how she got that bookshelf in the sky title. It's a silly title, for sure, but one that sticks, one that makes you ask questions. Maybe it has greater resonance for Germans or something. It certainly reflects Mr Zorn's obsession with cultural capital, tho. All that STUFF he owns, all stacked up on bookshelves. I read somewhere he had to take out his kitchen to make way for more stuff. (His KITCHEN for chrissakes!) c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ zorn-list mailing list zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com To UNSUBSCRIBE or Change Your Subscription Options, go to the webpage below http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/zorn-list
I'd certainly be much happier with a long documentary (what about 240 minutes?) with a retrospective of his entire career, just music, nothing else. After all, I have never enjoyed Zorn's interviews and I'm sure many people living outside the US, or even NYC are eager to WATCH the man in action instead of listening to those poor-quality bootlegs we get more often than not. Fortunately, Tzadik seems to be finding a solution to that. Best, Efrén del Valle --- Small Theater <smalltheater@27feet.com> escribió:
I'm rather enjoying the fact JZ pointed out that the film will have a life of its own once she puts it out for "review". And every one excected something different from the movie .,... THE INTERVIEW. but the showbiz maxim holds... "leave them wanting more"
I enjoyed the film for the mystery of JZ and how its elusive to "get to know me, this way anyway" feel. I must say, like most JZ fans probably, were waiting for JZ to make his own "story" as it relates to each of our stories. We want a feeling of connection, interpersonally (or at least i do).
Here's the movie I envision.. let's all pitch in $1000 (or whatever) and book a concert/lecture/fireside chat by/with JZ. film it . there'll b y the movie everyone wants.. to hear it first hand queastions from the fans (patrons).. Money well spent.
or just listen ----- Original Message ----- From: COLIN CLARK To: Efrén del Valle Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:12 AM Subject: Stories about Zorn
Hi Efren & Listers
I have to insist, Colin, that the movie was entitled "12 Stories about John Zorn"!!
I think we'll have to agree to differ on that one. They're still her stories, it's still her film, despite the title.
I suppose she kind of cheated a bit. There are not strictly 12 "stories". 12 chapters, maybe. I see it really as 1 story - her quest to get the film made & how her love for his music has affected her life. It's one that resonates for me.
Also, one thing which bugged me a bit - her title kind of alludes to Francois Girard's masterpiece "32 Short Short Films About Glenn Gould" which really does what it says on the label. And it's 100% about its subject in the way that Bookshelf is maybe 70% (I'm guessing) about JZ. As a piece of film, though it's improper to compare them, Bookshelf is not even half the Glenn Gould film (. . . well, she'd need at least 4 more stories for that!)
And I agree with the guy who complained about the number of times she goes on about how she got that bookshelf in the sky title. It's a silly title, for sure, but one that sticks, one that makes you ask questions. Maybe it has greater resonance for Germans or something. It certainly reflects Mr Zorn's obsession with cultural capital, tho. All that STUFF he owns, all stacked up on bookshelves. I read somewhere he had to take out his kitchen to make way for more stuff. (His KITCHEN for chrissakes!)
c
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participants (7)
-
Andrew Mortensen -
COLIN CLARK -
Craig Lieske -
Efrén del Valle -
Julian -
Small Theater -
Zachary Steiner