I think Steve is making some very good points. It is good to get these views from an independent label owner. The one question I have to raise is with the "use" area. How does this play into the area of "borrowing" cd's. Right now I am borrowing about 20 cd's from a friend of mine. I will enjoy these cd's for about a month and then return them. Chances are I will not buy any of the titles after listening to them for that amount of time. (I rarely listen to an album more than 5-10 times, I have to move on to the next thing). Now even though I never bought these cd's I am using them. The same for music from the library. Again, those pieces of music are being used without proper "usage" payment to the artist or label. Now again, I am not "for" burning independent releases by labels or artists that do not wish for it. I am just curious as to how this area fits in. Anyone can answer. Thanks, John Schuller

From: CuneiWay@aol.com To: zorn-list@mailman.xmission.com Subject: it's stealing Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:39:51 EST

...

If one has no intention of buying a particular album how does making a copy of that record take any money out of your labels/artists pockeet? If they were never going to buy it anyway, their money would have never existed for you.

Fine. If they aren't going to buy it, then they shouldn't buy it. No one is suggesting that anyone buy something that they don't want to buy and 'consume'.

But they shouldn't be able to USE it if they don't buy it. That's the way the admittedly imperfect system works. If they are downloading or copying it and USING it (notice I am saying USING it - obviously if someone copies one of my releases 1,000 times and does absolutely NOTHING with it other than break the CDR in half after burning, then it is NOT having any adverse affect on me), then it's stealing. Period.

Don't like my thinking on this? Fine. Ignore this posting. But it's still stealing. Don't try and argue/rationalize your way out of it.

And don't say "I am tired of reading this stuff, and don't want to see it any more on this list". What you are really saying is "you are challenging my rationalization, and I don't like that".

Again - you think it's ok? I can't convince you otherwise. And as Craig pointed out, it is very easy to copy CDs and because it is so easy, people seem to think it's 'ok'. But bottom line is that

(1) the law is on my side in this argument as I am making it here

and

(2) neither I, nor the artists I represent think it's ok. We think you are stealing from us and we think you are doing something that you know is wrong and either you don't care because you are basically a nasty shifty shithead or you are someone who is able to convince themselves that because it *is* easy that it is ok.

And if I am making someone uncomfortable with these postings, then that is precisely my point.

Steve Cuneiform Records

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John Schuller www.johnschuller.com www.worldmisery.com do you know the deutsch that I'm sprechen? _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail