Re: Comments on CD Burning/Unauthorized Duplication etc.
A few of my friends and I also have this conversation periodically. My views on the issue are as follows. Burning unauthorized audio IS technically stealing. An artist puts out a CD. That is his job, what he does for a living. I do however recognize that the issue is not black and white. I therefor try to factor in several variables in making a moral decision for myself: While burning unautorized material is wrong in that it is stealing, it is up to me as a consumer to create my own moral basis upon which i can base all my decisions. While i've yet toi formulate firm guideline i seem to feel (morally) comfortable with the decisions i make. I realize that i am not entitled to own the Bob Marley box set cause i didn't buy it. I own all the albums tho, have for years. So in that way i justify my burnt copy to myself. I sleep ok at night. Really the problem boils down to availability. If CDS were priced better and artists had easier access to consumers (or vice versa in my case) stealing would be less of an issue. As for buying used cds whereby the artist does not profit, that is a product of the industry. It so happens that the product really doesn't depreciate over time like many other items. A $10 used cd vs. a $20 new one is generally the same thing. I scour used cd stores almost daily. There are no fewer than 5 used cd stores on one street between my home and work (a 12 minute walk). I realize the artist is not profiting from my purchase, but i have little choice. Many of the items i find used i CANNOT find OR afford new. And it does happen that i discover artists "used" and end up buying other titles "new". On the whole i support many artists with a great deal of my income. Those artists who don't see any of my money from used CD sales are being graced with the honour of being heard. I (like everyone else) have my financial limitations. Until music is FREE, i will continue to buy CDs used, and new ones when i can't wait for that used copy to pop up. Many Cds i believe i'll never see used, so those i buy those new aswell. Sorry about the length but i thought i'd just add a couple cents on a subject that interests me. C ya, Adam _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Hello Adam, Saturday, November 30, 2002, you wrote: AM> Burning unauthorized audio IS stealing. I think burning a CD technically is NOT stealing at all. Stealing is taking somebody's else property away, so this person doesn't have it anymore. If I steal a bottle of soda from the store, it will miss one bottle of soda. If I copy a CD the artist won't miss anything because he didn't have it in the first place. Of course if I buy his CD he will gain something which he didn't have before. That's a big difference between stealing and unauthorized copying. When you making a copy you are multiplying things, not transferring them from one place to another. Therefor it is much more complicated issue, because, for example, multiplying things makes them to become more popular and bring more money to the people who created them. For instance look at the jam-bands with their trading policies or free software market with their GPL stuff or just Linux. NP: Dave Douglas "Witness" (CD) -- Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@shkin.com URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/
I'd like to muddy the waters a bit with an issue that I don't think has been addressed yet. In '95 or so when JMT released three CDs by Tim Berne & Bloodcount, I had a few options. 1) special order the discs at Borders and wait two weeks for them to tell me that it was on back order - absolutely no store in the area at the time stocked any JMT releases, 2) search for some mail-order service that would carry the CDs - not as easy then as now, or 3) avail myself of any of the _multiple promotional_ copies of each release that had been unloaded at each of several Half Price Books stores in the area. I have quite alot of the JMT catalog, and all of the CDs have "No Sale Allowed/Must Be Returned On Demand Of Copyright Holder" stamped on them. I never bought a new JMT CD because I just couldn't find them outside of the $2.00 rack at the aforementioned Half Price Books. When Tim Berne visited the yellow skies of Houston the following year and I drove five hours to see him(and we both ended up staying at the Grant Motel), I mentioned this problem to him. He said JMT was intent on "promoting their catalog out of existence." I'm sure much of the impetus for the creation of Screwgun came from this fact. What's more, to this day there is no need to pay full price for a new major-label distributed release(some labels are worse than others, but Luaka Bop, Sub Pop, and V2 spring to mind) because the local used CD stores, both chain and indie, often carry nothing _but_ used promo or even advance copies for certain artists. I can only speculate as to the origin of the situation, but I know the assclown who writes for the local arm of New Times, Inc. - sorry, "alternative weekly" - accounts for a good chunk of it. I would imagine one of the reasons Tzadik is still around is that they don't piss away promo copies the way the majors do. And on the subject of copying CDs today, when much of anything you could want will be available for purchase online - if the release is in print, and I like the work of the artist, I pays the money and buys the damn CD. I can't imagine settling for a CD-R of the work of an artist you respect when a few minutes of mousing(and the money) will get you the original and in the best of circumstances put some money in the artist's pocket - and I know quite a few people who never buy an original release; film score collectors are the worst. For me, there's no point to b&m stores anymore - all my music is purchased online. The only CD-Rs I have are concert recordings that are unavailable commercially or releases that are completely out of print _and_ don't show up on eBay. I add the disclaimer that I am a low-level collector scum and that the only bad OOP release is one that I want but don't have. Someone mentioned copying CDs as a way of sharing music with others and getting them interested in new artists. That never works for me; I just wait until the artists music gets used in a commercial, which seems the only way the great unwashed will accept new music. If the Stooges and Mingus can sell SUVs and Fred Frith can sell whatever it is that Merrill-Lynch is selling, then "Agitated" by the Electric Eels should show up in a Maytag commercial any day now.
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Adam Marrus wrote:
As for buying used cds whereby the artist does not profit, that is a product of the industry. It so happens that the product really doesn't depreciate over time like many other items. A $10 used cd vs. a $20 new one is generally the same thing.
i don't agree at all. there's an old saying in the junk business, "all cars are worth $0.50 eventually". records are no different. i've worked at a record store. used items are automatically marked less in value from new. the determining factors are physical condition of the media, the artist and title. of course, there are other factors. a mono recording of a beach boys record can be more valuable. whereas, the original cd issue of a clash album (mixed at a time when engineers still didn't fully appreciate the difference between analog and digital) is far less valuable than the digital remaster cd. used cds that sit around longer than x days automatically get a price markdown. eventually, a cd used cd that does not move after several months makes its way to the $0.25 bin. each store has their own methods, but eventually, all records end up being worth about $0.25 if they don't move. if that's not depreciation, i don't know what is. :) the grey area is deciding how the music contained on a given media format is appreciated. --dk Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
participants (4)
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Adam Marrus -
Peter Gannushkin -
Sanchez -
SUGAR in their vitamins?