I don't Coltrane's mastery is at issue as much as the haphazard feeling I get with regards to the way the bands were put together after ASCENSION. I don't like haphazard ensembles. I like real direction in the performance, and, frankly, with rare exception, Trane was by far the most qualified player on the bandstand after a certain point. I have to wonder what would have been recorded if he had, after the quartet split up, mounted a stable ensemble with non-shifting personnel, and really developed a group vocabulary again, kind of the way Sun Ra did.
With due respect, this party line b.s. about trane is so boring. shades of freakin' saxophone master class. His last years are full of great music from everyone in the group. Go back and listen some more (Expression, Interstellar space, Stellar regions, Olatunji Center, to name four........and Live In Japan). What is so unstable about the personnel in his last group? The only unstable thing is that Trane himself passed away. (so, okay, some people sat in.) An equally convincing case can be made that it was a monumental achievement for the group to maintain its identity amidst the guest appearances--which are limited on record (basically) to percussionists, don garrett, and the ascension date. Looked at over the long term...was Ra's personnel any less unstable? Besides the core, there was quite a revolving door much of the time. Trane's side-people's playing in 66/67 is greatly underrated. Look for John Schott's forthcoming book, entitled "John and Alice Coltrane" to rectify this.
on 8/27/02 4:50 PM, florid oratory at connah@earthlink.net wrote:
I don't Coltrane's mastery is at issue as much as the haphazard feeling I get with regards to the way the bands were put together after ASCENSION. I don't like haphazard ensembles. I like real direction in the performance, and, frankly, with rare exception, Trane was by far the most qualified player on the bandstand after a certain point. I have to wonder what would have been recorded if he had, after the quartet split up, mounted a stable ensemble with non-shifting personnel, and really developed a group vocabulary again, kind of the way Sun Ra did.
With due respect, this party line b.s. about trane is so boring. shades of freakin' saxophone master class.
Is it BS if that's truly the feeling with which you walk away? Also, isn;t this list exactly the forum where you would discuss issue like this?
What is so unstable about the personnel in his last group? The only unstable thing is that Trane himself passed away. (so, okay, some people sat in.)
well, a LOT of people sat in, comparivitely. also, it doesn't sound to me like the group identity of which you speak was ever realized. emphasize "to me".
An equally convincing case can be made that it was a monumental achievement for the group to maintain its identity amidst the guest appearances--which are limited on record (basically) to percussionists, don garrett, and the ascension date.
Looked at over the long term...was Ra's personnel any less unstable? Besides the core, there was quite a revolving door much of the time.
The way Ra set up his music was a lot different, so I think the handling of the personnel was different. Much different. skip h
----- Original Message ----- From: "skip Heller" <velaires@earthlink.net>
on 8/27/02 4:50 PM, florid oratory at connah@earthlink.net wrote:
What is so unstable about the personnel in his last group? The only unstable thing is that Trane himself passed away. (so, okay, some people sat in.)
well, a LOT of people sat in, comparivitely. also, it doesn't sound to me like the group identity of which you speak was ever realized. emphasize "to me".
Yea, there was Pharoah Sanders! And...uh........Pharoah Sanders........ .......Pharoah Sanders.........and uh....that poet and...hmm? A percussionist or two? Yep! Real unstable, all those people. * David Beardsley * http://biink.com * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
participants (3)
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David Beardsley -
florid oratory -
skip Heller