As an outsider just back to Amsterdam from a fascinating week at the Tonic, maybe I can contribute to this discussion: I was there 7 nights in total, yet I only bought beer once (apart from the 2 times I was "forced" to). The reason is simple: first you spend half to one hour waiting outside, then you rush inside to be at a reasonable spot, and as soon as the set is over they throw you back to the street. Well, how could this scheme ever work? I can compare the situation to two examples here: First at the Bimhuis, where the bar is rent to someone who runs it and is therefore a separate business. The doors open 1 hour before the concert, people come in and drink in a relaxed mood. In 99% of the cases there is an intermission before the second set (notably you dont get kicked out) so one can drink again. Then people also stick around after the concerts. And this is a place where concerts attract any size of audience, from 5 to 400 people. Second at Zaal100, which in some manner might be more appropriate for comparison, as it is never "commercial" music, yet is housed in some kind of squat (I am not sure if they pay rent for example). The concerts are not well advertised, mainly through email lists. The turnout is usually 20-40 people, yet all drink as the drinks are really cheap. Very cheap, like 1.5 euro/dollar for a whisky. Therefore poeple drink. Plus in that case too, there is no time pressure. You walk in and out in peace. I cannot see Tonic operating like either of the above, as its situation is different, but a slightly more relaxed attitude towards the audience wouldnt hurt. Needless to say, I didnt care shit about waiting or not drinking; the music was breathtaking and refreshing. But if I lived in NY and thus would go more often I would care. In summary: The JZ/Milford Graves duo was just incredible, my highlight. The JZ solo set was also excellent. The Gift was quite uptempo and beating, not the lounge/martini thing I expected and quite like Electric Masada. Bar Kokhba was good as ever, with a great Joey Baron, even though the tracklist doesnt seem to vary a lot. Painkiller was also a real killer. Also the filmmusic night was very beautiful. Plus: dont miss the eggplant rolls around the corner from tonic at cafe Luise ! manolis