on 16/2/03 7:13, MorMovies@aol.com at MorMovies@aol.com scribed:
In a message dated 2/14/03 10:20:58 PM, ayac@sannet.ne.jp writes:
<< on 14/2/03 22:36, MorMovies@aol.com at MorMovies@aol.com scribed:
In a message dated 2/14/03 7:58:43 AM, ayac@sannet.ne.jp writes:
<< Please, show me one other thing on the planet that composes and/or
improvises music with intentional design; perhaps we should give it a miss?
Can't be quite natural enough for us, perhaps.
Why isn't the creation of music natural for us? Do you have proof that proves otherwise? Are you sure we are the only animals that improvise or compose or design with sound?
Quite obviously you miss the point.
The democracy of nature argument as justification for tolerating, resignedly putting up with, war (especially at this time) does not hold water, nor for anything else for that matter. That is the point.
That's not the point.
Indeed, but it was your point of your reasoning; that because the world is a regular diet of death and destruction among the species, we should not buck the trend and get all too upset about it and, better still, folks on this list should shut up about the coming Iraq war.
The discussion and the peace movement are about nonviolence and non-confrontation for any reason. There is never any justification for war or violence for some people! I believe this generally goes against the truth of existence and reality on this planet.
Many things we do are not natural practices of most species. Most species do not kill their own kind intentionally;
???
they do fight and squabble and sometimes the result is death
only "sometimes"?
but death is not the common or intended outcome; running away is sufficient.
You are taking the discussion to fantasy land. Of, course it would be nice if that was true. However, I don't accept your idea of what's "natural" for most species, what goes on their minds nor do I subscribe to your interpretations on animal behavior. You don't have the answer and I don't have the answer. My original rant was about preaching a lie, the idea of "peace." I believe in balance, not peace. (I believe peace is a sick lie and the rest of the planet does not acknowledge it, in my opinion). Sometimes you run, sometimes you fight. What's your point? I didn't say I was for this specific war or indicated what wars I would or wouldn't support. I am against LIES and both sides of the argument are guilty of waging lies.
Balance, yes, you've got it. Give us balance. A skilled tightrope walker crossing high above the Niagara Falls has a fine display of balance, so long as his rope holds out. Otherwise, he needs to inflate himself pretty darned rapidly. What should we do about balance in this instance? On the one side we have a challenged George, and on the other side we have a detestable Saddam; in the middle we have...? All we need to do is sort out and choose the middle, that will give us a balance. Good, the matter is properly solved, go for the middle ground; neither George nor Saddam.
Additionally no other species amasses armies and wages war
Oh, really? I'd like to believe that. Do you have new scientific data to reveal to us?
Gosh, you are so right. just now I looked out of my window and there on one tree is a mass of blackbirds, and on another tree there is another mass. Are they staring at each other with a vicious and wilful intent? They are indeed, and what a mass of black stares! What is that they have strapped to their wings? Oh... I do not believe it... Really... Yes, they have strapped on weapons of destruction... Is that depleted uranium? No, surely not!!! They are now stirring up a flurry, squawking at each other in a most aggressive way. What did I see? Did one of them fire off something at the other group? Looks like one did, and, oh no... a blackbird has fallen, yes one has fallen, stone dead all the way to the ground. The other blackbirds in the dead bird's mass are getting themselves into a real frenzy now. They are beginning to paint their faces and are doing a war dance on their tree... Tally-Ho... Oh, here goes the first wave of attack, the garden is now a mess, my poor daffodils, the newly formed plum blossoms are ruined, a fire is raging, must go out to extinguish it, if I dare... And there are dead blackbirds everywhere, and in their midst is the neighbour's cat, now dead. Those blackbirds are taking no prisoners out there. And here was me thinking, blackbirds only sing in the dead of night... Was I way wrong, they are waging war, war I tell you, and without the Geneva convention... They are taking no prisoners out there, it is a massacre of force.
To go back to nature's way; now I will go out, find a nice stream to drink from, puddle water looks gloomy, see if I can catch myself a lizard or two - or something juicier - to eat, and a bush to sleep under, away from the rain; can I have clothes, its kind of cold and I am of the hairless sort body wise?
You're right, we are so above that! Sounds so "primitive" and untidy.
Really, I simply thought it was natural... especially for my cat, and most of the other species of the world. Thank you for enlightening me.
This statement makes you appear to me as elitist and prejudiced against third world/native people whose daily routine you've pretty accurately described? Does that make them less than human and not worthy of any respect?
Oh help ma bob ma kilt. I'm guilty of not polishing my boots, and of looking down from a high with such a grubby base pedestal. Well, if we can't laugh what can we do? We can always groan, and I feel it, I feel a good groan coming on... Groooooaaaaan! Cheers, Allan. E Endless returning, endless revolution of dream to ember, ember to anguish, anguish to flame, flame to delight, delight to dark and dream, dream to ember. Denise Levertov Sessionographies of McCoy Tyner, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, a range of jazz resources, photographs, sociology of the art links, and with more go to up there: http://www.kyushu-ns.ac.jp/~allan/ Any information heartily appreciated, merci, arigato, graci, thanks. Also, got to this very rich Monk site, created by Jacques Ponzio: http://sojazz.org/monk/