Thanks Rich for a toned down response I guess it is easy to get a little hot on these issues. We're probably not that far apart as maybe we initially sounded.
2. The only "direct conflict with LDS doctrine" I see is in your mind and the way you have chosen to interpret the scriptures and sermons by general authorities. Statements made by Boyd K. Packer, in conference talks, BYU lectures, or whatever, do NOT constitute official church doctrine -- they are his personal opinions. Did you find a "thus sayeth the Lord" in any of his writings?
Agreed-
3. In the 1939(?) first presidency statement, which is quoted in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism (allegedly created to represent church doctrine as officially as possible to the rest of the world), it basically says "...Leave the science to the scientists, while we (the church) concern ourselves with the salvation of mankind", words to that effect (I'm quoting from my very flawed memory). Brother Packer apparently wasn't paying attention to that statement. Probably why some of his buddies in CES failed to quote that statement and instead quote the earlier (1909) statement in the Ensign in 2002, but that's just my guess/opinion. And good grief, what did anyone on this planet know of DNA in 1909? of precise dating techniques? We are living in an exponential EXPLOSION of knowlege from the various scientific frontiers. We simply cannot afford to shut our eyes, plug our ears and refuse to look around us because it might conflict with some sentimental and naiive traditional ways of understanding the world (flat earth, earth-centric universe, etc.) we live in!
The 1909 statement separates what science is doing from what the scriptures say- that is clear. But the underlying message is to have faith in what the scriptures say- All things were created spiritually first and then physically. I do believe that the initial spiritual creation had in mind a specific outcome. I struggle with the idea that it happened by pure coincidence- there was something governing it. Which, if I'm not incorrect, was one of the reasons Einstein formulated his theories on relativity- he felt that God was governing the physics of the universe- he just wanted to understand it. But it began with his faith in Deity. I think keeping an open mind and heart is good science and also good faith. But the caution there is to not let our mind dictate our faith. Where there isn't clear definition, or even conflicting definition, it is easy to become arrogant that we know more than our so-called spiritual leaders (Packard, McKonkie, John Taylor, George Albert Smith, Joseph F Smith and many others who have written about organic evolution). I would recommend temperance where your "belief system" conflicts with our spiritual leaders. As much as we think we understand the world there inevitably comes a new paradigm a new way of thinking that points us in a different direction.
You think God's going to just up and tell us how He created us? Why should He when He filled up the planet with all the evidence we need (and more) to figure it out "line upon line, precept upon precept", the very foundation of how science puzzles out the mysteries of life?! I see this God of ours as a loving parent, who has no desire to spoil his children by just giving away knowledge -- we have to WORK for everything! Even prophets have to pester, plead, get on their knees and CRY for days sometimes to get the wisdom they seek.
I resoundingly agree- I think science and evolution have it right on in some instances but where they seemingly conflict with the scriptures I am willing to keep an open mind. Study what modern science has to offer and study the scriptures- pray and ask God for inspiration but never get off balanced in that search. We have to work extremely hard to gain knowledge but I also maintain that we need to strengthen our faith where knowledge hits a wall. There are many other controversial subjects which may not make sense right now in terms of current scientific proof but I still maintain my faith. Just because current DNA evidence of the inhabitants of central and south america does not point to an ancestry in Israel do I lose faith in the Book of Mormon and its claims, as well as the origins of the Book of Abraham, the great flood or even the miracles of Jesus. Science is working hard to make sense of the world around us so we can expand our understanding and bridge gaps that our ancestors have never thought possible. But lose sight of our faith in God and the guidance he has given us through his prophets will lead us off track. Maybe we don't see eye to eye in this discussion- but we all love this beautiful expanse above us that hangs like fireflies in an inky black night sky (my memory of a new moon night in Tahiti - not here.... unfortunately). Hopefully we can still get along when we meet at the next dark sky. Thanks again Rich, Mark and others for a stimulating if maybe a little frustrating debate.