I finally got to watch the first episode of the program. I have to admit that I was underwhelmed. It didn't seem like there was much more content than you would get in a 5th grade science class; a bit more, but not much. But, there was a bunch of grandstanding to make up for the missing content. What content there was did not stand out. I thought the calendar exercise was interesting, but very poorly illustrated. The scale of the universe was not stressed in a fashion that brought people to a real understanding of what it really means. I believe additional graphical comparisons and relationships to things that everyday people relate to would be a significant improvement. The calendar exercise is such an idea, but was poorly executed. Why did Giordano Bruno and the folks living at that time look so dour? In some places it was effective, but the overall feeling of that time can't have been the way it was represented. And, why was Galileo mentioned only in passing? Perhaps I am being more critical than I should, but I had a hard time getting too terribly excited. I hope the next episodes exhibit an improvement.
I have to agree with that. The calendar idea was used before -- was it in the original Cosmos? One point that bothered me was when Tyson was pointing to early footprints, obviously CGI, when he could have show the footprints themselves, which are preserved as fossils. Too much emphasis on computer visuals, not enough on facts. At least that's my impression after just the first episode. On Thursday, March 13, 2014 3:01 PM, Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com> wrote: I finally got to watch the first episode of the program. I have to admit that I was underwhelmed. It didn't seem like there was much more content than you would get in a 5th grade science class; a bit more, but not much. But, there was a bunch of grandstanding to make up for the missing content. What content there was did not stand out. I thought the calendar exercise was interesting, but very poorly illustrated. The scale of the universe was not stressed in a fashion that brought people to a real understanding of what it really means. I believe additional graphical comparisons and relationships to things that everyday people relate to would be a significant improvement. The calendar exercise is such an idea, but was poorly executed. Why did Giordano Bruno and the folks living at that time look so dour? In some places it was effective, but the overall feeling of that time can't have been the way it was represented. And, why was Galileo mentioned only in passing? Perhaps I am being more critical than I should, but I had a hard time getting too terribly excited. I hope the next episodes exhibit an improvement. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Sagan's version relied heavily on live sets, real actors, and actual locations; I'm sure that while he had great influence on the complexion of the show, much of it then, as now, is dependent on budget & schedule as well as directorial license. These days, computer graphics can be much cheaper than shooting a live-action scene at some far-flung location, especially when one of the principals involved already has an established animation studio in place. Brent, I would argue that the series isn't aimed at the same audience as the original. The original aired on PBS- a MUCH different audience than FOX. I'm sure that, with a more general, non-science-oriented demographic in mind, the script was intentionally on the light side. No college-level lectures in this one. I'm sure Galileo will make an appearance, we still have 12 more episodes to go, episode one didn't strike me especially as a syllabus. There's no way I could do better; as an industry outsider it's very easy to sit back be critical, but given the same budget and schedule, could any of us really do better? I highly doubt it. Whatever the show's shortcomings (and I have a few nits to pick, myself, some have been mentioned already but, come on, they are minor), I'm going to watch it and enjoy it as presented. It's still better than 99.9% of the crap on TV. I don't see any fatal flaws- yet. And we still have Sagan's original for times when the watered-down modern version just won't quench our thirst. On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have to agree with that. The calendar idea was used before -- was it in the original Cosmos? One point that bothered me was when Tyson was pointing to early footprints, obviously CGI, when he could have show the footprints themselves, which are preserved as fossils. Too much emphasis on computer visuals, not enough on facts. At least that's my impression after just the first episode.
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 3:01 PM, Brent Watson <brentjwatson@yahoo.com> wrote:
I finally got to watch the first episode of the program. I have to admit that I was underwhelmed. It didn't seem like there was much more content than you would get in a 5th grade science class; a bit more, but not much. But, there was a bunch of grandstanding to make up for the missing content.
What content there was did not stand out. I thought the calendar exercise was interesting, but very poorly illustrated. The scale of the universe was not stressed in a fashion that brought people to a real understanding of what it really means. I believe additional graphical comparisons and relationships to things that everyday people relate to would be a significant improvement. The calendar exercise is such an idea, but was poorly executed.
Why did Giordano Bruno and the folks living at that time look so dour? In some places it was effective, but the overall feeling of that time can't have been the way it was represented. And, why was Galileo mentioned only in passing?
Perhaps I am being more critical than I should, but I had a hard time getting too terribly excited. I hope the next episodes exhibit an improvement. _______________________________________________
I agree it's a fine production but a few aspects in the first show were disappointing. I don't remember any disappointments with the original series, but that was long ago. But budget shouldn't have been a big problem for Fox and National Geographic, especially since they teamed up tot a major, highly publicized blockbuster series. I'm a little irritated that they didn't care enough about science to nix that graphic of the asteroid belt. I have other complaints but I don't want to sound like I didn't like it, because I did. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though. On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>wrote:
I agree it's a fine production but a few aspects in the first show were disappointing. I don't remember any disappointments with the original series, but that was long ago. But budget shouldn't have been a big problem for Fox and National Geographic, especially since they teamed up tot a major, highly publicized blockbuster series. I'm a little irritated that they didn't care enough about science to nix that graphic of the asteroid belt. I have other complaints but I don't want to sound like I didn't like it, because I did.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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-- Siegfried
My two cents: Siegfried said it well -- it's not meant to be Physics 101. Yes, the asteroid belt depiction bugged me. I'm releasing that angst because I believe the program succeeded in achieving its primary goal, which was to leave audiences with a positive emotional experience about learning about the universe, and the important human stories (albeit with a dose of artistic license in terms of historical accuracy) that accompany any scientific discovery. A "COSMOS" that suited our expectations would almost certainly be a commercial flop - the audience would be just too small. What's the ultimate goal here? To keep astronomy enthusiasts happy, or to create a significant, positive social impulse where informal public science education is concerned? Remember, a significant % of public is still unclear about whether or not the Earth orbits the Sun. For Sunday night programming on FOX, I think they're succeeding! Seth -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:24 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My view of "Cosmos" You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though. On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>wrote:
I agree it's a fine production but a few aspects in the first show were disappointing. I don't remember any disappointments with the original series, but that was long ago. But budget shouldn't have been a big problem for Fox and National Geographic, especially since they teamed up tot a major, highly publicized blockbuster series. I'm a little irritated that they didn't care enough about science to nix that graphic of the asteroid belt. I have other complaints but I don't want to sound like I didn't like it, because I did.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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-- Siegfried _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I agree with Seth: our little group was NOT the target audience for Cosmos. I took the time yesterday to watch Neil deGrasse Tyson's talk about his book on the link given by Jamie Bradley last Wednesday: http://www.booktv.org/Program/13308/Space+Chronicles+Facing+the+Ultimate+Fro.... That talk IS for our group. I thought it profound, very interesting, and would highly recommend it to all of you. Enjoy! -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Seth Jarvis Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:43 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My view of "Cosmos" My two cents: Siegfried said it well -- it's not meant to be Physics 101. Yes, the asteroid belt depiction bugged me. I'm releasing that angst because I believe the program succeeded in achieving its primary goal, which was to leave audiences with a positive emotional experience about learning about the universe, and the important human stories (albeit with a dose of artistic license in terms of historical accuracy) that accompany any scientific discovery. A "COSMOS" that suited our expectations would almost certainly be a commercial flop - the audience would be just too small. What's the ultimate goal here? To keep astronomy enthusiasts happy, or to create a significant, positive social impulse where informal public science education is concerned? Remember, a significant % of public is still unclear about whether or not the Earth orbits the Sun. For Sunday night programming on FOX, I think they're succeeding! Seth -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:24 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My view of "Cosmos" You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though. On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com>wrote:
I agree it's a fine production but a few aspects in the first show were disappointing. I don't remember any disappointments with the original series, but that was long ago. But budget shouldn't have been a big problem for Fox and National Geographic, especially since they teamed up tot a major, highly publicized blockbuster series. I'm a little irritated that they didn't care enough about science to nix that graphic of the asteroid belt. I have other complaints but I don't want to sound like I didn't like it, because I did.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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-- Siegfried _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though.
I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, “The Big Orange Phone Book”. That would be nice, but it’s not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. I’d say that’s a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, there’s my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought I’d lost it. Dave On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though.
I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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I am not expecting Physics 101. I am expecting some analogies that better explain time and distance. What was in the first episode was severely lacking in that category in my opinion. Physics 101 would have spouted facts and figures. Analogies help folks understand them - give them an intuitive feel. The analogies in the series did little to explain the real vastness of our universe and the time scale we believe we know. A bit more thought and some great computer graphics could have gone a long way to giving the public a better sense of both concepts. The capabilities are there, but unused. After all, there are comparisons that can be reasonably understood that give a better feel for space time. When NDT asked if I felt small, my response was - not really, at least not from what you have showed me. Yes, this series will bring awareness to the public of our "little" corner of the world, but it could have gone much farther. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the showmanship. On Friday, March 14, 2014 2:50 PM, Dave Gary <davegary@me.com> wrote: I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, “The Big Orange Phone Book”. That would be nice, but it’s not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. I’d say that’s a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, there’s my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought I’d lost it. Dave On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though.
I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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It is being reported that some a Fox affiliates censored some of the 1st episode dealing with evolution.
I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, The Big Orange Phone Book. That would be nice, but its not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. Id say thats a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, theres my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought Id lost it.
Dave
On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though.
I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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I'd love to see a link, please. Thanks, Dan -- Sent from my iPhone. Please pardon any mispelings or errors.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 10:02 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
It is being reported that some a Fox affiliates censored some of the 1st episode dealing with evolution.
I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, “The Big Orange Phone Book”. That would be nice, but it’s not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. I’d say that’s a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, there’s my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought I’d lost it.
Dave
On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote: You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though. I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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I had the same reaction; cite the source.... I googled it, and it was one station in Oklahoma. While I believe faux news will do ~anything~, I hoped the individual stations would not. Jo On Mar 15, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Daniel Holmes <danielh@holmesonics.com> wrote:
I'd love to see a link, please.
Thanks, Dan
-- Sent from my iPhone. Please pardon any mispelings or errors.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 10:02 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
It is being reported that some a Fox affiliates censored some of the 1st episode dealing with evolution.
I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, “The Big Orange Phone Book”. That would be nice, but it’s not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. I’d say that’s a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, there’s my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought I’d lost it.
Dave
On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote: You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though. I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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Seth McFarland said they are going to watch that affiliate to see if the "accident" occurs tonight. Tonite it is mostly about evolution.
I had the same reaction; cite the source.... I googled it, and it was one station in Oklahoma. While I believe faux news will do ~anything~, I hoped the individual stations would not. Jo
On Mar 15, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Daniel Holmes <danielh@holmesonics.com> wrote:
I'd love to see a link, please.
Thanks, Dan
-- Sent from my iPhone. Please pardon any mispelings or errors.
On Mar 15, 2014, at 10:02 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
It is being reported that some a Fox affiliates censored some of the 1st episode dealing with evolution.
I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, The Big Orange Phone Book. That would be nice, but its not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. Id say thats a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, theres my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought Id lost it.
Dave
On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote: You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though. I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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I actually have a different thought on the audience this was aimed at but I don't want to get cussed at here. :) On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Erik Hansen <erikhansen@thebluezone.net>wrote:
It is being reported that some a Fox affiliates censored some of the 1st episode dealing with evolution.
I agree with most of the assessments. Look, FOX is not going to sanction a show that is at the level of say, "The Big Orange Phone Book". That would be nice, but it's not going to happen. Hey, it got me to look up material on Giordano Bruno. I'd say that's a plus. Less ignorance for Dave is a good thing is what Patrick always says. Hey, there's my Flat-Earth Society certificate. Thought I'd lost it.
Dave
On Mar 14, 2014, at 14:26, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
On 3/14/2014 11:23 AM, Siegfried Jachmann wrote:
You have to consider that Cosmos is like our public star parties. It's public outreach. It will increase the interest and awareness of astronomy with the public. It's not meant to be Physics 101. I would have liked it better if it was at a higher level but as Chuck said, (par) it's better than 99% of the television it's competing against. Not better than a good book though.
I agree. The show was not meant to stimulate the considerable collective intellect of the members of SLAS, or any other astronomy oriented group. It was aimed at the viewers whom the producers thought might feel a pang of interest. Kinda like having a great view of Saturn in your scope and someone walks up, looks for 12 seconds, and says "that is nice" and just walks away when you are panting to describe the rings, etc. Just enjoy it for what it is, or as Patrick might say, Faux Astronomy. 73
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-- Siegfried
participants (11)
-
Brent Watson -
Chuck Hards -
Daniel Holmes -
Dave Gary -
Erik Hansen -
Joe Bauman -
Josephine Grahn -
Larry Holmes -
Seth Jarvis -
Siegfried Jachmann -
Wayne Sumner