With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse. Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage. Erik
I looked up a couple times, but found the experience far more satisfying through the glasses. It also made going back to telescope viewing less pleasant, waiting for the image to disappear. On Wednesday, May 23, 2012, wrote:
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik
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-- Chrismo I fix things, all kinds of things... Club Allure Sandy, UT (801) 897-9075
I watched Amy Nay on the channel two news and she said all proud, that she could not get glasses so she stacked up three pair of sunglasses and was able to see it. So much for our hard work getting people not to look without proper protection.
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:08:06 -0600 From: erikhansen@thebluezone.net To: Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik
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Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more. On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote: With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse. Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage. Erik
Go to this site and watch the video. It is a presentation by Dr. Ralph Chou. Dr. Chou is a noted expert on eye safety and viewing the sun. He has written at least two articles for Sky and Telescope that I am aware of. There are some really good facts on this site: http://www.transitofvenus.org/june2012/eye-safety From: David Bennett <dlbennett@mac.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more. On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote: With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse. Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage. Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly. Kim
Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses? ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly. Kim _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
"you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly."
exactly the reason there should be no talk about damage "thresholds" Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses?
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly.
Kim
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Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor ________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses? ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly. Kim _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
Joe (or Jor - which are you? ;-), I don't sit at this computer all day but only check it two or three times throughout the day. I wasn't ignoring you, I promise. After I saw your post I asked Kevin Poe again about the NASA glasses. I was somewhat mistaken earlier, so here's the clarification: Some time before the May 20 eclipse (perhaps months or some weeks, at least - Kevin couldn't remember) NASA ordered many eclipse glasses from a manufacturer of the same. It was later determined that they were defective and NASA recalled them all before they were distributed to the public. I don't know the nature of the defect but I think they just passed too much light to meet NASA's specifications. I wrote earlier that those that we deliberately burned as a demonstration to our visitors and to render them useless were from the defective batch. I WAS WRONG and I apologize for that. Those that we burned have NASA's logo but were from an eclipse some years ago that were left over. Again, as far as we have been told all of the defective glasses were recalled and none were distributed to the public. Perhaps Patrick or Ann knows more about this? One more time - I WAS WRONG AND I APOLOGIZE. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:05 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] need answer Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
No need to apologize -- if I apologized every time I made a mistake, like mistyping my own name, I'd have no time for anything else. Thanks -- Joe ________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] need answer Joe (or Jor - which are you? ;-), I don't sit at this computer all day but only check it two or three times throughout the day. I wasn't ignoring you, I promise. After I saw your post I asked Kevin Poe again about the NASA glasses. I was somewhat mistaken earlier, so here's the clarification: Some time before the May 20 eclipse (perhaps months or some weeks, at least - Kevin couldn't remember) NASA ordered many eclipse glasses from a manufacturer of the same. It was later determined that they were defective and NASA recalled them all before they were distributed to the public. I don't know the nature of the defect but I think they just passed too much light to meet NASA's specifications. I wrote earlier that those that we deliberately burned as a demonstration to our visitors and to render them useless were from the defective batch. I WAS WRONG and I apologize for that. Those that we burned have NASA's logo but were from an eclipse some years ago that were left over. Again, as far as we have been told all of the defective glasses were recalled and none were distributed to the public. Perhaps Patrick or Ann knows more about this? One more time - I WAS WRONG AND I APOLOGIZE. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:05 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] need answer Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
I can see that my speculation as to what you meant by "defective" was wrong. On 5/23/2012 3:41 PM, Kim wrote:
Joe (or Jor - which are you? ;-),
I don't sit at this computer all day but only check it two or three times throughout the day. I wasn't ignoring you, I promise. After I saw your post I asked Kevin Poe again about the NASA glasses. I was somewhat mistaken earlier, so here's the clarification:
Some time before the May 20 eclipse (perhaps months or some weeks, at least - Kevin couldn't remember) NASA ordered many eclipse glasses from a manufacturer of the same. It was later determined that they were defective and NASA recalled them all before they were distributed to the public. I don't know the nature of the defect but I think they just passed too much light to meet NASA's specifications. I wrote earlier that those that we deliberately burned as a demonstration to our visitors and to render them useless were from the defective batch. I WAS WRONG and I apologize for that. Those that we burned have NASA's logo but were from an eclipse some years ago that were left over. Again, as far as we have been told all of the defective glasses were recalled and none were distributed to the public.
Perhaps Patrick or Ann knows more about this?
One more time - I WAS WRONG AND I APOLOGIZE.
Kim
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:05 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] need answer
Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
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The o-rings were defective. On May 23, 2012 4:06 PM, "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses?
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly.
Kim
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Defective? Did the lenses fall out? Did these include any that we gave away? I think my friends and I had NASA glasses. ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] need answer The o-rings were defective. On May 23, 2012 4:06 PM, "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses?
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly.
Kim
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That is not entirely fair Chuck! The o-rings on these glasses were exposed to temperatures far below their design specs. ;-)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:47:28 -0600 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] need answer
The o-rings were defective. On May 23, 2012 4:06 PM, "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses?
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly.
Kim
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Lol! "Design specs" lol again! On May 23, 2012 4:54 PM, "Steve Fisher" <iotacass1@hotmail.com> wrote:
That is not entirely fair Chuck! The o-rings on these glasses were exposed to temperatures far below their design specs. ;-)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:47:28 -0600 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] need answer
The o-rings were defective. On May 23, 2012 4:06 PM, "Joe Bauman" <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses?
________________________________ From: Kim <kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly.
Kim
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It appears to me that Kim evaluates them as defective because they burn through if used behind the eyepiece, thus being a danger from a litigation point of view for whoever is passing them out and to the eyes of those who don't get it to the point that they use them behind the eyepiece even when warned not to. On 5/23/2012 3:04 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Still no answer and I am very concerned about Kim's comment. Please respond. -- Thanks, Jor
________________________________ From: Joe Bauman<josephmbauman@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Um, what was defective about the NASA glasses?
________________________________ From: Kim<kimharch@cut.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy'<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
We had many people ask about using their solar viewing glasses (which we gave away for free on Sunday - several thousand) with binoculars. Of course we told them not to use them behind the eyepiece, but to prove the point we experimented prior to the eclipse with my 11x80 binos and a pair of solar glasses. It took less than one second to burn about a 10mm hole through the plastic filters. We had about 30 of the defective NASA solar viewing glasses, so we burned them all and used them to warn people with binoculars. Still, at least one visitor wondered what would happen so he put on the glasses and put his small binoculars up to his face. We have his burned-through glasses to prove that you can warn people all you want but you sure can't stop them if they are determined to act stupidly.
Kim
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Bill, just for the record, I wasn't the one who determined that the large batch of glasses that NASA ordered was defective. I have nothing to do with NASA and I've not evaluated their glasses or any other product. As I explained, I don't know what the defect was or any other details. I was just passing along information that had been told to me. We designed our 8,000 solar glasses and had them custom made. (I even had one visitor trade his Thousand Oaks glasses for our custom "souvenir quality" Bryce Canyon glasses - ours are that much nicer.) Our supplier used Thousand Oaks film in ours. I believe that in their marketing both Thousand Oaks and our supplier make clear that the film is not to be used with a telescope or binoculars in front of the light path. No film of which I'm aware is designed to withstand the focused light and heat from any other optical system, as we all know. I'm sure that aluminized or mylar film would have melted/burned just as quickly. That is all that we were trying to demonstrate to our visitors, for their safety. We are much less concerned about potential lawsuits than we are about simply protecting the health and safety of both employees and visitors. I also saw your follow-up post, but I just wanted to be clear. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of William Lockman Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:59 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] need answer It appears to me that Kim evaluates them as defective because they burn through if used behind the eyepiece, thus being a danger from a litigation point of view for whoever is passing them out and to the eyes of those who don't get it to the point that they use them behind the eyepiece even when warned not to.
He mentions one study and says it is mostly photochemical but thermal injury can occur and he seems to talking about glimpses without protection. He definitely does not advocate looking without protection and no eye doctor would as well. He seems to advocate protected sex as well. The study should also follow-up these individuals in 20 years to really see what the radiation exposure has done. I recall it was you saying 40 sec exposure would not do permanent damage, I did not hear Dr. Chou say that. Go to this site and watch the video. It is a presentation by Dr. Ralph
Chou. Dr. Chou is a noted expert on eye safety and viewing the sun. He has written at least two articles for Sky and Telescope that I am aware of. There are some really good facts on this site: http://www.transitofvenus.org/june2012/eye-safety
From: David Bennett <dlbennett@mac.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more.
On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Bad choices can be made by those who don't believe in the danger. In Oct. 1959, when I was 12 years old, I tried to see a solar eclipse while living in Jackson, WY. I must have looked for a total of 2 or 3 minutes over a half hour. The next day at school, I could see problems while looking at the blackboard. To this day, I have permanent eye damage to my right eye. I have a blind spot, the size of one letter of news print at reading length. When I look at a series of lines with just the right eye, I now have an hour glass-shaped image where the damage to my retina is. Because of this loss, I never use my right eye to look through a telescope. My loss of vision hasn't been a major problem but over the years I have kicked myself many times for that stupid act. My eye doctor has looked at this many times and tells me that no retinal cancer has formed because of this as of yet. Now, I never glance at the sun without proper protection. Thanks Rodger C. Fry -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:22 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing He mentions one study and says it is mostly photochemical but thermal injury can occur and he seems to talking about glimpses without protection. He definitely does not advocate looking without protection and no eye doctor would as well. He seems to advocate protected sex as well. The study should also follow-up these individuals in 20 years to really see what the radiation exposure has done. I recall it was you saying 40 sec exposure would not do permanent damage, I did not hear Dr. Chou say that. Go to this site and watch the video. It is a presentation by Dr. Ralph
Chou. Dr. Chou is a noted expert on eye safety and viewing the sun. He has written at least two articles for Sky and Telescope that I am aware of. There are some really good facts on this site: http://www.transitofvenus.org/june2012/eye-safety
From: David Bennett <dlbennett@mac.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more.
On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Dr. Chou did mention most of those looking at sun without protection are teens to pre-teens. Laser surgery is painless but I have heard eye doctors wondering if some early lasix patients might regret having the surgery 10 years later. I have assisted during laser eye procedures and everyone wears protection. As Rodger mentions, there are long term worries following exposure. Personally, I very rarely venture outside without sunglasses to avoid UV and IR exposure (not all sunglasses provide this) which, overtime, is linked to eye disease.
On a side note I find it interesting that the nuclear lobby points out that radiation from waste sites is equal to hospital nuclear radiation. They forget to mention the protection we wear when around that radiation in hospitals. We are talking about bad choices. It is interesting to see the youtube videos coming out. UFO sightings, videos showing total eclipses claiming it is of the annular, just to name a few. Bad choices can be made by those who don't believe in the danger.
In Oct. 1959, when I was 12 years old, I tried to see a solar eclipse while living in Jackson, WY. I must have looked for a total of 2 or 3 minutes over a half hour. The next day at school, I could see problems while looking at the blackboard. To this day, I have permanent eye damage to my right eye. I have a blind spot, the size of one letter of news print at reading length. When I look at a series of lines with just the right eye, I now have an hour glass-shaped image where the damage to my retina is.
Because of this loss, I never use my right eye to look through a telescope. My loss of vision hasn't been a major problem but over the years I have kicked myself many times for that stupid act.
My eye doctor has looked at this many times and tells me that no retinal cancer has formed because of this as of yet.
Now, I never glance at the sun without proper protection.
Thanks Rodger C. Fry
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:22 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
He mentions one study and says it is mostly photochemical but thermal injury can occur and he seems to talking about glimpses without protection. He definitely does not advocate looking without protection and no eye doctor would as well. He seems to advocate protected sex as well.
The study should also follow-up these individuals in 20 years to really see what the radiation exposure has done. I recall it was you saying 40 sec exposure would not do permanent damage, I did not hear Dr. Chou say that.
Go to this site and watch the video. It is a presentation by Dr. Ralph
Chou. Dr. Chou is a noted expert on eye safety and viewing the sun. He has written at least two articles for Sky and Telescope that I am aware of. There are some really good facts on this site: http://www.transitofvenus.org/june2012/eye-safety
From: David Bennett <dlbennett@mac.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more.
On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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Eric, Dr. Chou clearly states the threshold of damage occurs at between 40 and 100 seconds. This is covered at 8:15 in the video. Have a closer look. It is both on the slide being presented as well as the narative. Yes, it was me who mentioned it on this board, but only as a statement of surprise regarding the facts presented in the video. I am not an expert in this area, but Dr. Chou is recognized as such. My mention of this statement is to be considered as a quote from Dr. Chou's presentation. He also states that these are NOT thermal burns. The rise in temperature is between 1.5 and 3 degrees C - hardly enough to create a thermal burn. (Presented on the same slide as mentioned above, at 8:15 in the video.) The damage is chemical in nature, although he refers to the phenomenon as a burn several times. I too know people who have caused permanent damage to their retina from looking at solar eclipses. It is real. I do not look at the sun for more than about a half second unless it is near the horizon and I am looking for the green flash. Please note that Dr. Chou states clearly that once the sun has reddened near the horizon that it is safe to look at. Specifically he states that if the sun is within one solar diameter of the horizon it can be safely observed without optical filters. It is still uncomfortably bright, and I only catch a glimpse until it is just about to disappear below the horizon. At that time I will watch for several seconds, maybe three of four, to catch the green flash. DISCLAIMER: This discussion is referring to observing the sun WITHOUT optical aid - i.e. magnification of one. From: "erikhansen@thebluezone.net" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing He mentions one study and says it is mostly photochemical but thermal injury can occur and he seems to talking about glimpses without protection. He definitely does not advocate looking without protection and no eye doctor would as well. He seems to advocate protected sex as well. The study should also follow-up these individuals in 20 years to really see what the radiation exposure has done. I recall it was you saying 40 sec exposure would not do permanent damage, I did not hear Dr. Chou say that. Go to this site and watch the video. It is a presentation by Dr. Ralph
Chou. Dr. Chou is a noted expert on eye safety and viewing the sun. He has written at least two articles for Sky and Telescope that I am aware of. There are some really good facts on this site: http://www.transitofvenus.org/june2012/eye-safety
From: David Bennett <dlbennett@mac.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more.
On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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He talks about that as the threshold between burn injury and non burn and I believe the key phrase was that vision "basically" returns to normal. I would like to know what he meant by basically and would like to have questioned him more on long term effects. I've seen the green flash a few times and that is enough for me, I'm done looking for it, I've always considered it pretty risky. The times the sun turns red is usually with flat horizon like over the sea or with lots of smoke or smog. When the sun sets over the mountains to the west of SL it is rarely red.
Chou is speaking to a select audience, I do wonder what he would say to a less discerning group. Erik Eric,
Dr. Chou clearly states the threshold of damage occurs at between 40 and 100 seconds. This is covered at 8:15 in the video. Have a closer look. It is both on the slide being presented as well as the narative. Yes, it was me who mentioned it on this board, but only as a statement of surprise regarding the facts presented in the video. I am not an expert in this area, but Dr. Chou is recognized as such. My mention of this statement is to be considered as a quote from Dr. Chou's presentation. He also states that these are NOT thermal burns. The rise in temperature is between 1.5 and 3 degrees C - hardly enough to create a thermal burn. (Presented on the same slide as mentioned above, at 8:15 in the video.) The damage is chemical in nature, although he refers to the phenomenon as a burn several times. I too know people who have caused permanent damage to their retina from looking at solar eclipses. It is real. I do not look at the sun for more than about a half second unless it is near the horizon and I am looking for the green flash. Please note that Dr. Chou states clearly that once the sun has reddened near the horizon that it is safe to look at. Specifically he states that if the sun is within one solar diameter of the horizon it can be safely observed without optical filters. It is still uncomfortably bright, and I only catch a glimpse until it is just about to disappear below the horizon. At that time I will watch for several seconds, maybe three of four, to catch the green flash. DISCLAIMER: This discussion is referring to observing the sun WITHOUT optical aid - i.e. magnification of one.
From: "erikhansen@thebluezone.net" <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
He mentions one study and says it is mostly photochemical but thermal injury can occur and he seems to talking about glimpses without protection. He definitely does not advocate looking without protection and no eye doctor would as well. He seems to advocate protected sex as well.
The study should also follow-up these individuals in 20 years to really see what the radiation exposure has done. I recall it was you saying 40 sec exposure would not do permanent damage, I did not hear Dr. Chou say that.
Go to this site and watch the video. It is a presentation by Dr. Ralph
Chou. Dr. Chou is a noted expert on eye safety and viewing the sun. He has written at least two articles for Sky and Telescope that I am aware of. There are some really good facts on this site: http://www.transitofvenus.org/june2012/eye-safety
From: David Bennett <dlbennett@mac.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] safe observing
Wow, 40 seconds? Where did you read that one? Sounds very risky even during the maximum of an annular (don't call me annual) eclipse. I glimpsed for about 1/4 a second unprotected during the maximum from Salt Lake with the hopes of seeing an after-image with closed eyes...it barely worked but I wouldn't risk my sight doing any more.
On May 23, 2012, at 09:08 AM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
With a few posts talking about exaggerated claims of the dangers of solar observing during an eclipse.
Did anyone try to glimpse the eclipse without eye protection? After all, it was said to can look for 40 seconds without permanent eye damage.
Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
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participants (10)
-
Brent Watson -
Chrismo -
Chuck Hards -
David Bennett -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Joe Bauman -
Kim -
Rodger C. Fry -
Steve Fisher -
William Lockman