I'll offer this response once in this forum, and then I recommend that any additional comments anyone would care to exchange should probably go off-list through private emails to avoid cluttering up what should be a forum for astronomy-related messages. Quoting Chuck Hards: "Many of us are old enough to remember when Hansen opened it's doors, and that it was a much more freindly and open environment than Clark, or the final phases of Hansen." How so? Customer service drives this place. If we're being less friendly now than in years gone by (I was on the Hansen Planetarium staff under both Mark Littmann and Von Del Chamberlain), I'd like to know about it so I can correct the problem. "I certainly felt that any tax dollars of mine going into the old institution were much better spent." I don't see how you can make that claim. We have four times the public attendance, more and better exhibits, and three times the number of school kids seeing educational programs than we had at Hansen and nobody's taxes have gone up to pay for it. "Any county rules that on the surface seem to forbid an association between an astronomical society and the planetarium can be undone, they are just words on paper and not physical barriers." Words on paper are the basis of our government. The "Short Rule" was a 1999 decision by the Utah Supreme Court. Public employees may not give public assets (use of this building is considered a public asset) to private persons or organizations without fair market compensation and approval by elected representatives. SLAS is not being unfairly discriminated against. The rules apply to _all_ private groups wishing to use the planetarium. It's your tax dollars that are protected by this policy. "For the planetarium to now shrug it's shoulders, point to questionable polices and rental fees, and grin sheepishly seems like a cop-out to many of us." I'm never sheepish, and I'm certainly not grinning. You and others have criticized the planetarium for being unfair to SLAS, and I'm explaining to you that the county policy, and the Utah laws on which it is based, is far from "questionable." It is strict and unambiguous. "Remember that we are not "tin-foil hat" types standing around looking at the night sky hoping for UFOs to land." Who ever said you were? The accomplishments of amateur astronomers are well known and respected by the planetarium staff. "It's pretty much up to you, sir, to change the environment at this point." I hope I've made it clear that it is most certainly _not_ up to me. If SLAS doesn't want to associate with the planetarium, that's SLAS's decision to make. The Clark Planetarium has at no time, nor ever will, act in any arbitrary manner to diminish our interest in cooperating with SLAS to promote astronomy education in our community. Best regards, Seth Jarvis, Director Clark Planetarium
Chuck: Youre way off base. Public outreach begins with educating the young, and Clark packs them in by the busload. Those kids will be stumbling into SLAS star parties for years to come, asking questions about collimation or whats the NGC for the double cluster so I can point my go-to telescope at it? The Eugene Levy and Sue French of tomorrow will most likely start out at in astronomy at a venue for the masses. The attitude of many advanced amateurs is to build a bunker in their own backyard or a locked building out in the boonies to keep out the masses. This is not public outreach. This is snobbery. I attended all the SLAS public star parties last year and it was largely the same 5 guys who carried load alone. Ive been to a special star party with Kim Hyatt where we fended off 1000 Mormon teenage girls. We could have used some help, Chuck. Guy handled a troop of girl scouts alone. Way to go Guy, a big Semper Fi to you. You only need one Marine. Yet Guy gets sneered at for a Beer, Bikini, and Roast pig approach to star parties. Hes not exclusive enough for some peoples taste. As for Clark Planetarium policy, you may have noticed that Nancy Workman is no longer Mayor of Salt Lake County. Thats because some of her staff felt entitled to freebees and she didnt have the brains to say no Thats the reality we have to live with today. When Doug Short was running around loose, he got into Hansen on the allegation that some one was padding the payroll with overtime claims. This was one more of the freebee entitlements that the taxpayer just wont stand for any more. Clark has to be squeaky clean and we have to respect that, regardless of our memories of the good old days. Have a nice day. DT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Quoting daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com>:
Yet Guy gets sneered at for a Beer, Bikini, and Roast pig approach to star parties.
Hey, I'm all in favor of beer, bikinis and roast pig. Unless of course the pig is wearing a bikini and drinking all the beer... ;)
Guy I couldn't stop laughing. I had to close the office door before I busted a gut. Sig Quoting diveboss@xmission.com:
Quoting daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com>:
Yet Guy gets sneered at for a Beer, Bikini, and Roast pig approach to star parties.
Hey, I'm all in favor of beer, bikinis and roast pig. Unless of course the pig is wearing a bikini and drinking all the beer... ;)
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Glad you enjoyed it! Quoting ziggy943@xmission.com:
Guy
I couldn't stop laughing. I had to close the office door before I busted a gut.
Sig
Quoting diveboss@xmission.com:
Quoting daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com>:
Yet Guy gets sneered at for a Beer, Bikini, and Roast pig approach to star parties.
Hey, I'm all in favor of beer, bikinis and roast pig. Unless of course the pig is wearing a bikini and drinking all the beer... ;)
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Hummm. Now I'm wondering; am I a geeky snob or just a snobby geek? Barney ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Why the hostility?
Chuck: You're way off base... The attitude of many advanced amateurs is to build a bunker in their own backyard or a locked building out in the boonies to keep out the "masses". This is not public outreach. This is snobbery.
From: "daniel turner" <outwest112@yahoo.com> <Daniel wrote:>
Chuck: You're way off base.
Chuck is a good guy.
The attitude of many advanced amateurs is to build a bunker in their own backyard or a locked building out in the boonies to keep out the "masses". This is not public outreach. This is snobbery.
Not everybody shares the same asperations in pursuit of this hobby. We have members whose interst range from professional-amateur collaboration to public astronomy to telescope making to private observing sessions. Just because somebody doesn't share your vision of astronomy in not justification of calling them snobs.
I attended all the SLAS public star parties last year and it was largely the same 5 guys who carried load alone. <
5? 5? Five? Funf? Cinco? Siegfried
"Size doesn't mean a thing" said my first wife. But then she never looked throught the clubs new 32" scope... ;) I'm gonna have to break down and buy a step ladder for this years star parties so that I can get above the crowd who will be lining up for a chance to peer through the new 32" scope. The view of Saturn tonight was spectacular. I haven't seen that many moons since my old High School yearbook. ;) I thought the finder scope was a nice touch. It's a camera hooked up to a monitor. Heck, I would be... did I just say heck? Anyway, I would be willing to bet that people will form a line just to view the monitor. Were it up to me I would have done something a little different for a finder. I would have mounted a fully loaded M-16 rifle on the scope loaded with tracers. The stream of tracers heading up into the night sky would have been a true crowd pleaser. ;) The view of M42 looked great. And that was just on the monitor. Siegfried and Chuck hogged the eyepiece at every chance. We got to see the comet. It too looked good on the monitor, though we're pretty sure it would have looked even better through the scope. ;) I have to say, I am really impressed with the job Steve Dodd and Bruce Grim did on the scope. I can't wait for warmer nights. It will make crowding around the monitor that much more enjoyable. ;) Guy
I find myself in complete agreement with Guy in his email assessment of the star party at SPOC tonight. Bruce and Steve, you done good. Real good! Looking through the Big Scope at Saturn had me thinking back to the first time I ever looked through a "real" telescope. I was 8 and I was amazed at the site of Saturn. It was that view that turned my interest in the sky into a lifelong passion. I can't help but wonder how many kids' astronomical interest will be ignited this spring by views of Saturn through the Big Scope. Tonight's views of the Ringed World were incredible. Cassini (the gap, not the spacecraft) was a cinch. Looked like a black thread laying on the rings. More satellites than I've ever seen and the detail on the planet itself was amazing. And all this with the seeing not all that great, less than terrific eyepieces and Saturn fairly low in the sky. I can only imagine what it will look like with good seeing and top of the line eyepieces. As for M-42, Siegfried actually thought he saw color in the nebulosity. While others did not see that we all agreed the swirls and festoons and at least 6 stars in the Trapezium were terrific. I think I have a new love in my life... :-) Patrick
This is a milestone. Congrats to all that have participated and contributed. We have raised the bar. A correction to Patrick's note. Several people also thought they saw color on the interior edges of the Orion nebula. There is no shake or wobble to the scope. The image of Saturn just sat there still and steady. We wondered if a scope this size, atthat location would be useable as a planetary scope --- oh yes! You'all are gonna love it. Not knowing if we would run into probles with supporting the mirror or alignment, we wondered if we could count on doing the dedication on Astronomy Day, April 16th. Wonder no more. We have a Grand Slam here. We hit the lottery. We won the Super Bowl. Somebody else pointed out... just seeing it, wow, what a sight. Yeah. Siegfried ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Wiggins" <paw@trilobyte.net> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonights star party...
I find myself in complete agreement with Guy in his email assessment of the star party at SPOC tonight. Bruce and Steve, you done good. Real good!
Looking through the Big Scope at Saturn had me thinking back to the first time I ever looked through a "real" telescope. I was 8 and I was amazed at the site of Saturn. It was that view that turned my interest in the sky into a lifelong passion.
I can't help but wonder how many kids' astronomical interest will be ignited this spring by views of Saturn through the Big Scope.
Tonight's views of the Ringed World were incredible.
Cassini (the gap, not the spacecraft) was a cinch. Looked like a black thread laying on the rings.
More satellites than I've ever seen and the detail on the planet itself was amazing.
And all this with the seeing not all that great, less than terrific eyepieces and Saturn fairly low in the sky. I can only imagine what it will look like with good seeing and top of the line eyepieces.
As for M-42, Siegfried actually thought he saw color in the nebulosity. While others did not see that we all agreed the swirls and festoons and at least 6 stars in the Trapezium were terrific.
I think I have a new love in my life... :-)
Patrick
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What if the f ratio of the new scope? Can't wait to see it sometime. We have quite a club here in Utah to be able to being such a gift to the group and the community! Great Job guys and gals! Thanks for all your dedication to make this a one of a kind club in the country. Patrick - Have you posted any pictures yet? Haven't seen any. Thanks, Jim Stitley Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote: This is a milestone. Congrats to all that have participated and contributed. We have raised the bar. A correction to Patrick's note. Several people also thought they saw color on the interior edges of the Orion nebula. There is no shake or wobble to the scope. The image of Saturn just sat there still and steady. We wondered if a scope this size, atthat location would be useable as a planetary scope --- oh yes! You'all are gonna love it. Not knowing if we would run into probles with supporting the mirror or alignment, we wondered if we could count on doing the dedication on Astronomy Day, April 16th. Wonder no more. We have a Grand Slam here. We hit the lottery. We won the Super Bowl. Somebody else pointed out... just seeing it, wow, what a sight. Yeah. Siegfried ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Wiggins" To: "Utah Astronomy" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonights star party...
I find myself in complete agreement with Guy in his email assessment of the star party at SPOC tonight. Bruce and Steve, you done good. Real good!
Looking through the Big Scope at Saturn had me thinking back to the first time I ever looked through a "real" telescope. I was 8 and I was amazed at the site of Saturn. It was that view that turned my interest in the sky into a lifelong passion.
I can't help but wonder how many kids' astronomical interest will be ignited this spring by views of Saturn through the Big Scope.
Tonight's views of the Ringed World were incredible.
Cassini (the gap, not the spacecraft) was a cinch. Looked like a black thread laying on the rings.
More satellites than I've ever seen and the detail on the planet itself was amazing.
And all this with the seeing not all that great, less than terrific eyepieces and Saturn fairly low in the sky. I can only imagine what it will look like with good seeing and top of the line eyepieces.
As for M-42, Siegfried actually thought he saw color in the nebulosity. While others did not see that we all agreed the swirls and festoons and at least 6 stars in the Trapezium were terrific.
I think I have a new love in my life... :-)
Patrick
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Patrick's pictures are at: http://www.trilobyte.net/paw/slas/BIGSCOPEC.HTML Quoting Jim Stitley <sitf2000@yahoo.com>:
What if the f ratio of the new scope?
Can't wait to see it sometime. We have quite a club here in Utah to be able to being such a gift to the group and the community! Great Job guys and gals! Thanks for all your dedication to make this a one of a kind club in the country. Patrick - Have you posted any pictures yet? Haven't seen any. Thanks, Jim Stitley
Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com> wrote: This is a milestone.
Congrats to all that have participated and contributed. We have raised the bar.
A correction to Patrick's note. Several people also thought they saw color on the interior edges of the Orion nebula.
There is no shake or wobble to the scope. The image of Saturn just sat there still and steady. We wondered if a scope this size, atthat location would be useable as a planetary scope --- oh yes!
You'all are gonna love it.
Not knowing if we would run into probles with supporting the mirror or alignment, we wondered if we could count on doing the dedication on Astronomy Day, April 16th. Wonder no more. We have a Grand Slam here. We hit the lottery. We won the Super Bowl.
Somebody else pointed out... just seeing it, wow, what a sight. Yeah.
Siegfried
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Wiggins"
To: "Utah Astronomy" Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tonights star party...
I find myself in complete agreement with Guy in his email assessment of the star party at SPOC tonight. Bruce and Steve, you done good. Real good!
Looking through the Big Scope at Saturn had me thinking back to the first time I ever looked through a "real" telescope. I was 8 and I was amazed at the site of Saturn. It was that view that turned my interest in the sky into a lifelong passion.
I can't help but wonder how many kids' astronomical interest will be ignited this spring by views of Saturn through the Big Scope.
Tonight's views of the Ringed World were incredible.
Cassini (the gap, not the spacecraft) was a cinch. Looked like a black thread laying on the rings.
More satellites than I've ever seen and the detail on the planet itself was amazing.
And all this with the seeing not all that great, less than terrific eyepieces and Saturn fairly low in the sky. I can only imagine what it will look like with good seeing and top of the line eyepieces.
As for M-42, Siegfried actually thought he saw color in the nebulosity. While others did not see that we all agreed the swirls and festoons and at least 6 stars in the Trapezium were terrific.
I think I have a new love in my life... :-)
Patrick
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One little correction to Sieg's post: We didn't just wind the Superbowl. We won the World Cup! :-) Jim Stitley wrote:
Patrick - Have you posted any pictures yet? Haven't seen any.
MANY pictures. Pretty boring, though, as most were just shots of those participating in First Peek and First Light. Link was in News this morning. Did you not get News? Patrick
For some reason Patrick, I have not been getting your news for a few months but used to get it daily. I DO want to get it again. I looked forward to getting it every day - great update on 'happenings'. Thanks, Jim Stitley Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net> wrote: One little correction to Sieg's post: We didn't just wind the Superbowl. We won the World Cup! :-) Jim Stitley wrote:
Patrick - Have you posted any pictures yet? Haven't seen any.
MANY pictures. Pretty boring, though, as most were just shots of those participating in First Peek and First Light. Link was in News this morning. Did you not get News? Patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com
You know, with a scope of this quality, this close to home, I may have to get that eye surgery i've been putting off... I lost my keen eyesight as a youth doing things I was warned not to do lest I go blind, and now I am paying the price. ;) I too meant to thank everyone as well for their contibutions including Chuck. If it weren't for his contribution, we might have had to use a ladies compact mirror to bend the light through the fixed eyepiece. And that fixed eyepiece design is just one more superb aspect of this scope. Good idea! Guy Quoting Siegfried Jachmann <ziggy943@xmission.com>:
This is a milestone.
Congrats to all that have participated and contributed. We have raised the bar.
On a hunch, I took the 12" Dob out this evening for a backyard tour of the sky. Yup, it sucked. If I could only glue 3 of these together I might have something. ;) Anonymous
diveboss@xmission.com wrote:
Quoting Patrick Wiggins <paw@trilobyte.net>:
I think I have a new love in my life... :-)
Then can we expect some smaller spin off's of this scope in the near future??? ;)
Yes, and it'll be called the Brandt refractor. Patrick
participants (9)
-
Barney B. -
daniel turner -
diveboss＠xmission.com -
Jim Stitley -
Patrick Wiggins -
Seth Jarvis -
Siegfried Jachmann -
William Biesele -
ziggy943＠xmission.com