After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was! Raeburn Kennard
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object. On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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What are tonigh's coordinate's? On Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM, "Chrismo" <djchrismo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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Siegfried, Here are the coordinates for tonight. Date RA Dec Sun Earth Mag Elong Con Rise hr min deg ' AU AU deg pm 1 Jul 2011 22 42.7 +02 29 2.759 2.163 10.1 115.8 Aqr 10.33 pm 8 Jul 2011 22 32.9 +04 24 2.693 1.996 9.8 123.5 Peg 10.03 pm 15 Jul 2011 22 20.6 +06 25 2.625 1.843 9.5 131.1 Peg 9.30 pm 22 Jul 2011 22 04.9 +08 37 2.558 1.705 9.2 138.7 Peg 8.54 pm 29 Jul 2011 21 44.8 +10 54 2.492 1.588 9.0 145.4 Peg 8.15 pm 5 Aug 2011 21 21.3 +13 09 2.426 1.498 8.7 149.3 Peg 7.33 pm 12 Aug 2011 20 54.7 +15 14 2.361 1.435 8.5 148.7 Del 6.47 pm 19 Aug 2011 20 26.1 +16 58 2.297 1.404 8.3 143.3 Del 5.57 pm Set 26 Aug 2011 19 57.1 +18 13 2.233 1.403 8.2 134.8 Sge 2.56 am 2 Sep 2011 19 29.6 +18 59 2.171 1.429 8.1 125.0 Sge 1.58 am 9 Sep 2011 19 04.8 +19 19 2.110 1.477 8.1 115.0 Sge 1.04 am Rodger Fry -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:35 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd What are tonigh's coordinate's? On Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM, "Chrismo" <djchrismo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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Last night at Wolf Creek it was right in the middle of the asterism called the Coat Hanger like Daniel Turner mentioned. It was a wonderful sight. On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Rodger C. Fry <rcfry@comcast.net> wrote:
Siegfried,
Here are the coordinates for tonight.
Date RA Dec Sun Earth Mag Elong Con Rise hr min deg ' AU AU deg pm 1 Jul 2011 22 42.7 +02 29 2.759 2.163 10.1 115.8 Aqr 10.33 pm 8 Jul 2011 22 32.9 +04 24 2.693 1.996 9.8 123.5 Peg 10.03 pm 15 Jul 2011 22 20.6 +06 25 2.625 1.843 9.5 131.1 Peg 9.30 pm 22 Jul 2011 22 04.9 +08 37 2.558 1.705 9.2 138.7 Peg 8.54 pm 29 Jul 2011 21 44.8 +10 54 2.492 1.588 9.0 145.4 Peg 8.15 pm 5 Aug 2011 21 21.3 +13 09 2.426 1.498 8.7 149.3 Peg 7.33 pm 12 Aug 2011 20 54.7 +15 14 2.361 1.435 8.5 148.7 Del 6.47 pm 19 Aug 2011 20 26.1 +16 58 2.297 1.404 8.3 143.3 Del 5.57 pm Set
26 Aug 2011 19 57.1 +18 13 2.233 1.403 8.2 134.8 Sge 2.56 am 2 Sep 2011 19 29.6 +18 59 2.171 1.429 8.1 125.0 Sge 1.58 am 9 Sep 2011 19 04.8 +19 19 2.110 1.477 8.1 115.0 Sge 1.04 am
Rodger Fry
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:35 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
What are tonigh's coordinate's? On Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM, "Chrismo" <djchrismo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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-- Jay Eads
You don't need exact coordinates if you have a telescope with "push-to" pointing technology. Just point at the coathanger asterism and do a slow spiral search along it's southern edge going farther and farther out with each pass. Unfortunately with motor driven telescopes this seems to be a lost art. People with hand controls just can't do a simple spiral search. How do you think Charles Messier did his searches for comets? Not with a hand controller, that's for sure. DT From: Rodger C. Fry <rcfry@comcast.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd Siegfried, Here are the coordinates for tonight. Date RA Dec Sun Earth Mag Elong Con Rise hr min deg ' AU AU deg pm 1 Jul 2011 22 42.7 +02 29 2.759 2.163 10.1 115.8 Aqr 10.33 pm 8 Jul 2011 22 32.9 +04 24 2.693 1.996 9.8 123.5 Peg 10.03 pm 15 Jul 2011 22 20.6 +06 25 2.625 1.843 9.5 131.1 Peg 9.30 pm 22 Jul 2011 22 04.9 +08 37 2.558 1.705 9.2 138.7 Peg 8.54 pm 29 Jul 2011 21 44.8 +10 54 2.492 1.588 9.0 145.4 Peg 8.15 pm 5 Aug 2011 21 21.3 +13 09 2.426 1.498 8.7 149.3 Peg 7.33 pm 12 Aug 2011 20 54.7 +15 14 2.361 1.435 8.5 148.7 Del 6.47 pm 19 Aug 2011 20 26.1 +16 58 2.297 1.404 8.3 143.3 Del 5.57 pm Set 26 Aug 2011 19 57.1 +18 13 2.233 1.403 8.2 134.8 Sge 2.56 am 2 Sep 2011 19 29.6 +18 59 2.171 1.429 8.1 125.0 Sge 1.58 am 9 Sep 2011 19 04.8 +19 19 2.110 1.477 8.1 115.0 Sge 1.04 am Rodger Fry -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:35 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd What are tonigh's coordinate's? On Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM, "Chrismo" <djchrismo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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Daniel, I'm in favor of doing astronomy anyway that gives the astronomer pleasure. Personally, I don't know the skies as well as many of you, and I don't want to use up too many of my limited number of brain cells in learning that. I prefer to , if I can push some buttons and get down to my real job with astronomy, which I see as astrophotography. It's exhausting and time-consuming enough to get even one good photo a night, with hours spent setting up, the variables that have to be calculated and all the adjustments that need to be made, without spending a lot of time with my scope going in circles to find the target. It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. -- Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd You don't need exact coordinates if you have a telescope with "push-to" pointing technology. Just point at the coathanger asterism and do a slow spiral search along it's southern edge going farther and farther out with each pass. Unfortunately with motor driven telescopes this seems to be a lost art. People with hand controls just can't do a simple spiral search. How do you think Charles Messier did his searches for comets? Not with a hand controller, that's for sure. DT From: Rodger C. Fry <rcfry@comcast.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd Siegfried, Here are the coordinates for tonight. Date RA Dec Sun Earth Mag Elong Con Rise hr min deg ' AU AU deg pm 1 Jul 2011 22 42.7 +02 29 2.759 2.163 10.1 115.8 Aqr 10.33 pm 8 Jul 2011 22 32.9 +04 24 2.693 1.996 9.8 123.5 Peg 10.03 pm 15 Jul 2011 22 20.6 +06 25 2.625 1.843 9.5 131.1 Peg 9.30 pm 22 Jul 2011 22 04.9 +08 37 2.558 1.705 9.2 138.7 Peg 8.54 pm 29 Jul 2011 21 44.8 +10 54 2.492 1.588 9.0 145.4 Peg 8.15 pm 5 Aug 2011 21 21.3 +13 09 2.426 1.498 8.7 149.3 Peg 7.33 pm 12 Aug 2011 20 54.7 +15 14 2.361 1.435 8.5 148.7 Del 6.47 pm 19 Aug 2011 20 26.1 +16 58 2.297 1.404 8.3 143.3 Del 5.57 pm Set 26 Aug 2011 19 57.1 +18 13 2.233 1.403 8.2 134.8 Sge 2.56 am 2 Sep 2011 19 29.6 +18 59 2.171 1.429 8.1 125.0 Sge 1.58 am 9 Sep 2011 19 04.8 +19 19 2.110 1.477 8.1 115.0 Sge 1.04 am Rodger Fry -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:35 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd What are tonigh's coordinate's? On Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM, "Chrismo" <djchrismo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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The push-to vs go-to debate reminds me of a similar debate going on in the flying community. Those of us who learned our "stick and rudder" skills years ago are a little concerned about those learning to fly in these days of computerized cockpits. Recently the FAA released a study showing several instances over the past year or so where airplane electronics broke inflight and the pilots had problems handling the situation because they were so used to the plane flying itself. Air France going into the Atlantic and a flight that went down in Buffalo NY were sited as examples. Still, I guess computers are the way of the future. One day they might not even need onboard pilots. Of course the difference here is that if your scope's electronics break you're probably not going to die. :) patrick p.s. At last count there are 24 portable scopes and gobs of public here at SPOC this evening. On 03 Sep 2011, at 18:33, Joe Bauman wrote:
Daniel, I'm in favor of doing astronomy anyway that gives the astronomer pleasure. Personally, I don't know the skies as well as many of you, and I don't want to use up too many of my limited number of brain cells in learning that. I prefer to , if I can push some buttons and get down to my real job with astronomy, which I see as astrophotography. It's exhausting and time-consuming enough to get even one good photo a night, with hours spent setting up, the variables that have to be calculated and all the adjustments that need to be made, without spending a lot of time with my scope going in circles to find the target. It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. -- Thanks, Joe
On 9/3/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. --
Joe, you continute to avoid something that isn't as hard as you make it out to be. There is certainly less to learn in knowing the sky, than knowing your way around the neighborhood you live in. It's not a lost art, it's as basic as learning the alphabet before you learn to read. I knew my constellations at age 8. Don't give up, Joe. I have hope that even an old dog can learn new tricks. ;-) If you're dead-set against it, then yes, to each, his own. But don't advocate not learning to others. I'm kind of amazed you take that stance.
I'm for L & O..... It would be a good time to discuss the merits of "going to" or "pushing to" the various formations on your plate! 73 lh On 9/6/2011 6:57 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/3/11, Joe Bauman<josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. -- Joe, you continute to avoid something that isn't as hard as you make it out to be. There is certainly less to learn in knowing the sky, than knowing your way around the neighborhood you live in.
It's not a lost art, it's as basic as learning the alphabet before you learn to read. I knew my constellations at age 8.
Don't give up, Joe. I have hope that even an old dog can learn new tricks. ;-)
If you're dead-set against it, then yes, to each, his own. But don't advocate not learning to others. I'm kind of amazed you take that stance.
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On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
I'm for L & O..... It would be a good time to discuss the merits of "going to" or "pushing to" the various formations on your plate! 73 lh
LOL, sounds good to me, Larry! Pick a Saturday, sir. If it coincides with the next sun party, lets do it after the party is over.
Agreed! ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
I'm for L & O..... It would be a good time to discuss the merits of "going to" or "pushing to" the various formations on your plate! 73 lh
LOL, sounds good to me, Larry! Pick a Saturday, sir. If it coincides with the next sun party, lets do it after the party is over. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
I'm not in for L&O, but I think I can find something else to eat at the same place. Dan On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
There's 3 for L&O, do I hear more? I can taste it already!
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Agreed!
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-- Daniel Holmes, danielh@holmesonics.com "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol & I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L & O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh On 9/6/2011 8:45 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
I'm for L& O..... It would be a good time to discuss the merits of "going to" or "pushing to" the various formations on your plate! 73 lh LOL, sounds good to me, Larry! Pick a Saturday, sir. If it coincides with the next sun party, lets do it after the party is over.
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My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too. If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along. On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol & I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L & O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
Lets go for it. Say 1P or 1:30? All in favor say aye! lh On 9/6/2011 11:43 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too.
If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along.
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol& I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L& O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
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L&O Lovers, If it is about 1:30 or later, I can make it. Thanks Rodger Fry -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Holmes Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:51 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd Lets go for it. Say 1P or 1:30? All in favor say aye! lh On 9/6/2011 11:43 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too.
If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along.
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol& I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L& O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
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So, 1:30 PM at the Left Fork. OK, all?? 73 lh On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Rodger C. Fry wrote:
L&O Lovers,
If it is about 1:30 or later, I can make it.
Thanks Rodger Fry
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Holmes Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:51 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
Lets go for it. Say 1P or 1:30? All in favor say aye! lh
On 9/6/2011 11:43 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too.
If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along.
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol& I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L& O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
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Darn. I'll catch you guys next time then. I can't be there until 2:30. Enjoy! On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
So, 1:30 PM at the Left Fork. OK, all?? 73 lh
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Rodger C. Fry wrote:
L&O Lovers,
If it is about 1:30 or later, I can make it.
Thanks Rodger Fry
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Holmes Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:51 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
Lets go for it. Say 1P or 1:30? All in favor say aye! lh
On 9/6/2011 11:43 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too.
If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along.
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol& I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L& O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
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2:30's OK with me. Just means I'll have to be a little stuffed at our dinner party, but who cares? Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd Darn. I'll catch you guys next time then. I can't be there until 2:30. Enjoy! On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
So, 1:30 PM at the Left Fork. OK, all?? 73 lh
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Rodger C. Fry wrote:
L&O Lovers,
If it is about 1:30 or later, I can make it.
Thanks Rodger Fry
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Larry Holmes Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:51 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
Lets go for it. Say 1P or 1:30? All in favor say aye! lh
On 9/6/2011 11:43 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too.
If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along.
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol& I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L& O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
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It can't be too late on Saturday because my anti-liver-eating wife and I are holding a little dinner party starting at 6, and she'll be pretty unhappy if I'm not back in time to do a lot of the setting up. But I can hardly wait. Where to go? Anybody up for Lamb's? -- Joe ________________________________ From: Larry Holmes <larry@kijoda.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd Lets go for it. Say 1P or 1:30? All in favor say aye! lh On 9/6/2011 11:43 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
My GF works Saturday, so if we make it mid-afternoon she can attend too.
If I go without her, she'll smell it on my breath and I'll be in big trouble for not taking her along.
On 9/6/11, Larry Holmes<larry@kijoda.com> wrote:
How 'bout the 10th, after the sun party?? I do not think it wise to go without liver too long. In fact, Carol& I had it for dinner Sun nite. hummmm! Left Fork?? For those of you who do not glory (gory?) in the aroma of L& O, there is always the ubiquitous cheebrgr. Gastronomically yours, lh
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Well, I do know my way around the heavens a bit, but not with such tremendous detail as the rest of you do. There are a few reasons for that: first, I'm mildly dyslexic and all my life I've had trouble with ordinary directions, like just driving around the city. Then, philosophically, I don't care much about labeling parts of the sky as the water monster, etc., though the history of this interesting. Finally, here is what I do to practice my favorite form of astronomy: take about an hour to pack the Jeep with all my gear, an hour or longer to drive to a dark site, an hour or more to unpack and do a preliminary setting up, sometimes two more hours to get everything operating correctly such as securing the guide scope and balancing the rig. Then I have a few hours of astrophotography, during which I'm usually busy fixing glitches and working on focus. Then half an hour's nap. Then an hour to repack everything. An hour to drive home (make it three and a half hours each way if I'm visiting the Wedge Overlook.) Back home, most of the day to rest. When recovered I like to spend time writing a blog. I'm just too busy to bother with the details of exactly how to find a particular planetary by star hopping. -- Thanks, Joe ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd On 9/3/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. --
Joe, you continute to avoid something that isn't as hard as you make it out to be. There is certainly less to learn in knowing the sky, than knowing your way around the neighborhood you live in. It's not a lost art, it's as basic as learning the alphabet before you learn to read. I knew my constellations at age 8. Don't give up, Joe. I have hope that even an old dog can learn new tricks. ;-) If you're dead-set against it, then yes, to each, his own. But don't advocate not learning to others. I'm kind of amazed you take that stance. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
You've constructed a neat scenario, with a few false assumptions, that bolsters your reticence to learn. Once you learn a handful of constellations, star-hopping isn't really a necessary part of finding objects. If you can identify a handful of geometric shapes (I'm betting dyslexia doesn't prevent anyone from recognizing triangles, rectangles, etc.), you're halfway there. Up/down/left/right is all you need to concern yourself with, at least to start. You'll put the red dot on the right spot in the sky, and BAM! There's your object. I know precious little stellar mythology, myself. It's not required for learning a few dozen patterns. I'm going to keep pushing you to learn, Joe, because I think it will ultimately enhance your enjoyment of the hobby. Think of me as an "annoying" friend, lol. I only push you because I know for a fact that your intellect is FAR above average. One day you'll have that "Aha" moment and realize you've been unnecessarily hesitant. It can be a gradual process and not detract from other activities at all. Man, what a pain in the @ss I am, eh? ;-) On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, I do know my way around the heavens a bit, but not with such tremendous detail as the rest of you do. There are a few reasons for that: first, I'm mildly dyslexic and all my life I've had trouble with ordinary directions, like just driving around the city. Then, philosophically, I don't care much about labeling parts of the sky as the water monster, etc., though the history of this interesting. Finally, here is what I do to practice my favorite form of astronomy: take about an hour to pack the Jeep with all my gear, an hour or longer to drive to a dark site, an hour or more to unpack and do a preliminary setting up, sometimes two more hours to get everything operating correctly such as securing the guide scope and balancing the rig. Then I have a few hours of astrophotography, during which I'm usually busy fixing glitches and working on focus. Then half an hour's nap. Then an hour to repack everything. An hour to drive home (make it three and a half hours each way if I'm visiting the Wedge Overlook.) Back home, most of the day to rest. When recovered I like to spend time writing a blog. I'm just too busy to bother with the details of exactly how to find a particular planetary by star hopping. -- Thanks, Joe
I think each to their own. There isn't one way to enjoy astronomy. I'm a visual observer and I learned to observe by star hopping because my first scope had no go to methods to it. I feel given an atlas, a Telrad, and a wide field eyepiece I can find any object. I also enjoy hunting down objects, its part of the process for me. My 14 inch Orion has the intelliscope feature that I sometimes use, and sometimes I don't. What I do like about it is that it increases productivity or the number of items I can view or the amount of time I spend on my objects observing them. Do I always use it? Nope. That's just me. I have friends like Joe, George and others who do astro-photography and goto and tracking is essential. I do think that with both visual and astro-photographers we are seeing a switch from star hopping to an object to using a go to or digital setting circles to get there to increase the amount of time observing an object. In the end in my opinion, no defense of any position is needed as it is what the individual wants and does that matters to that individual. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, I do know my way around the heavens a bit, but not with such tremendous detail as the rest of you do. There are a few reasons for that: first, I'm mildly dyslexic and all my life I've had trouble with ordinary directions, like just driving around the city. Then, philosophically, I don't care much about labeling parts of the sky as the water monster, etc., though the history of this interesting. Finally, here is what I do to practice my favorite form of astronomy: take about an hour to pack the Jeep with all my gear, an hour or longer to drive to a dark site, an hour or more to unpack and do a preliminary setting up, sometimes two more hours to get everything operating correctly such as securing the guide scope and balancing the rig. Then I have a few hours of astrophotography, during which I'm usually busy fixing glitches and working on focus. Then half an hour's nap. Then an hour to repack everything. An hour to drive home (make it three and a half hours each way if I'm visiting the Wedge Overlook.) Back home, most of the day to rest. When recovered I like to spend time writing a blog. I'm just too busy to bother with the details of exactly how to find a particular planetary by star hopping. -- Thanks, Joe
________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
On 9/3/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. --
Joe, you continute to avoid something that isn't as hard as you make it out to be. There is certainly less to learn in knowing the sky, than knowing your way around the neighborhood you live in.
It's not a lost art, it's as basic as learning the alphabet before you learn to read. I knew my constellations at age 8.
Don't give up, Joe. I have hope that even an old dog can learn new tricks. ;-)
If you're dead-set against it, then yes, to each, his own. But don't advocate not learning to others. I'm kind of amazed you take that stance.
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-- Jay Eads
I haven't star hopped since I got my Atlas. It is a waste of time /to me/, as my purpose 99.9% of the time is to take photos, which means getting integration time. Every spare second I can cut out of setup, and finding the object, goes towards the photos. I can see the enjoyment others get from it, and I had to star hop for the first while I was doing this because I didn't have a goto mount. I think everyone does this hobby for different reasons. Like you Joe, I have the imaging fever. Knowing my way around the night sky in great detail is not required. - David On 9/6/2011 10:07 AM, Jay Eads wrote:
I think each to their own. There isn't one way to enjoy astronomy. I'm a visual observer and I learned to observe by star hopping because my first scope had no go to methods to it. I feel given an atlas, a Telrad, and a wide field eyepiece I can find any object. I also enjoy hunting down objects, its part of the process for me. My 14 inch Orion has the intelliscope feature that I sometimes use, and sometimes I don't. What I do like about it is that it increases productivity or the number of items I can view or the amount of time I spend on my objects observing them. Do I always use it? Nope. That's just me. I have friends like Joe, George and others who do astro-photography and goto and tracking is essential. I do think that with both visual and astro-photographers we are seeing a switch from star hopping to an object to using a go to or digital setting circles to get there to increase the amount of time observing an object. In the end in my opinion, no defense of any position is needed as it is what the individual wants and does that matters to that individual.
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Joe Bauman<josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, I do know my way around the heavens a bit, but not with such tremendous detail as the rest of you do. There are a few reasons for that: first, I'm mildly dyslexic and all my life I've had trouble with ordinary directions, like just driving around the city. Then, philosophically, I don't care much about labeling parts of the sky as the water monster, etc., though the history of this interesting. Finally, here is what I do to practice my favorite form of astronomy: take about an hour to pack the Jeep with all my gear, an hour or longer to drive to a dark site, an hour or more to unpack and do a preliminary setting up, sometimes two more hours to get everything operating correctly such as securing the guide scope and balancing the rig. Then I have a few hours of astrophotography, during which I'm usually busy fixing glitches and working on focus. Then half an hour's nap. Then an hour to repack everything. An hour to drive home (make it three and a half hours each way if I'm visiting the Wedge Overlook.) Back home, most of the day to rest. When recovered I like to spend time writing a blog. I'm just too busy to bother with the details of exactly how to find a particular planetary by star hopping. -- Thanks, Joe
________________________________ From: Chuck Hards<chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
On 9/3/11, Joe Bauman<josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's just that old adage, to each his own. So let's not mourn a lost art -- it's lost for a good reason. --
Joe, you continute to avoid something that isn't as hard as you make it out to be. There is certainly less to learn in knowing the sky, than knowing your way around the neighborhood you live in.
It's not a lost art, it's as basic as learning the alphabet before you learn to read. I knew my constellations at age 8.
Don't give up, Joe. I have hope that even an old dog can learn new tricks. ;-)
If you're dead-set against it, then yes, to each, his own. But don't advocate not learning to others. I'm kind of amazed you take that stance.
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OK, this will undoubtedly tick some people off, but then willing ignorance and mental laziness ticks me off, too. I never made the claim that there was only one way to enjoy astronomy. Nobody is. This isn't really a debate of GoTo vs. PushTo. But those who know the sky have an advantage that those who don't aren't really qualified to marginalize. I keep hearing the argument that it's a waste of time, that it takes time from other astro activities. This is a myth. It happens at different rates for different people. It's not a class with an exam at the end. Sometimes it takes a lifetime. There is no rush. There are certain strictly intellectual rewards, too. Like being able to visualize one's place in the the immediate galactic neighborhood, among others. The practical side is subjective, to be sure, and differs from person to person. Each person can take away something different from the knowledge of the sky. I've never met ONE single person who, after learning their way around the sky, considered it a waste of time. That argument only comes from those who don't- or don't want to. There are lots of folks who know the sky and still manage to accomplish prodigious imaging. The argument that it's counter-productive to doing something else is vocalized to justify a strangely selective lack of interest. It takes a smaller effort than those espousing ignorance believe it takes. Are you an amateur astronomer, or just a tech junkie passing time playing with digital toys? Learning should never be so selective, especially with something so simple, once the mental adjustment to actually do it is made. To play the Devil's Advocate for a moment, Brent Watson once made a statement to the effect that there are so many people taking fantastic images of the sky, that he considered it mere repetition and a waste of his time to throw away his eyepiece time imaging. He made a point worthy of consideration, in the context of this discussion. He preferred the "physical connnection" of visual observing. What he saw through the eyepiece at any given time was a singular event, never to be exactly repeated, and his and his alone. He couldn't share his mental image and felt no need to, since everyone else was free to have the experience themselves. Imaging to him, in that light, was just a "me too" type of thing. Fun, but quickly repetitive and pointless. "To each, his own" works both ways, using Brent's logic. Personally, I like imaging, and while I understand Brent's position, I want to do a bit more of that "me too" stuff, myself. I used to shoot a lot of film and just don't have the financial resources to make the high-end digital conversion all at once or quickly. I fully intend to pursue more digital work as time and money allow, but my point is that I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded. After all, there are many nights when the seeing just isn't good enough for imaging. You all know this. More bad or marginal nights than good, in fact. Why not spend that time with your naked eyes or binoculars? Plenty of time for it, and your eyes and binoculars won't notice the bad seeing that the camera would. Now, if your attitude is "Im going to do imaging, or no astronomy at all", then we have come to the end of our discussion of what to do with one's astronomy time, haven't we? Bad seeing nights are filled with TV, or something else much more interesting than learning the sky, apparently. You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast. Understand that what I'm trying to do is open doors. Those refusing to learn a basic aspect of astronomy such as the constellations are operating under a misunderstanding, at least, and terribly cheating themselves, at most. I want young people, especially, to know that it's not an "either-or" situation. They CAN have it all. Why outright dismiss learning something about the science, the hobby? Why not take it a little at a time? Just say "I'm working on it, as time permits". Why throw the very idea out, wholesale? Makes no sense at all. My 2 cents. Ok, a buck and a half, lol.
/"OK, this will undoubtedly tick some people off, but then willing ignorance and mental laziness ticks me off, too." /So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe? / "That argument only comes from those who don't- or don't want to./" I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper. /"He preferred the "physical connnection" of visual observing." /How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection. /"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./" Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy. /"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast." /Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did. - David - David On 9/6/2011 11:37 AM, Chuck Hards wrote:
OK, this will undoubtedly tick some people off, but then willing ignorance and mental laziness ticks me off, too.
I never made the claim that there was only one way to enjoy astronomy. Nobody is. This isn't really a debate of GoTo vs. PushTo. But those who know the sky have an advantage that those who don't aren't really qualified to marginalize.
I keep hearing the argument that it's a waste of time, that it takes time from other astro activities.
This is a myth. It happens at different rates for different people. It's not a class with an exam at the end. Sometimes it takes a lifetime. There is no rush. There are certain strictly intellectual rewards, too. Like being able to visualize one's place in the the immediate galactic neighborhood, among others. The practical side is subjective, to be sure, and differs from person to person. Each person can take away something different from the knowledge of the sky.
I've never met ONE single person who, after learning their way around the sky, considered it a waste of time.
That argument only comes from those who don't- or don't want to.
There are lots of folks who know the sky and still manage to accomplish prodigious imaging. The argument that it's counter-productive to doing something else is vocalized to justify a strangely selective lack of interest. It takes a smaller effort than those espousing ignorance believe it takes. Are you an amateur astronomer, or just a tech junkie passing time playing with digital toys? Learning should never be so selective, especially with something so simple, once the mental adjustment to actually do it is made.
To play the Devil's Advocate for a moment, Brent Watson once made a statement to the effect that there are so many people taking fantastic images of the sky, that he considered it mere repetition and a waste of his time to throw away his eyepiece time imaging. He made a point worthy of consideration, in the context of this discussion.
He preferred the "physical connnection" of visual observing. What he saw through the eyepiece at any given time was a singular event, never to be exactly repeated, and his and his alone. He couldn't share his mental image and felt no need to, since everyone else was free to have the experience themselves. Imaging to him, in that light, was just a "me too" type of thing. Fun, but quickly repetitive and pointless.
"To each, his own" works both ways, using Brent's logic.
Personally, I like imaging, and while I understand Brent's position, I want to do a bit more of that "me too" stuff, myself. I used to shoot a lot of film and just don't have the financial resources to make the high-end digital conversion all at once or quickly. I fully intend to pursue more digital work as time and money allow, but my point is that I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded.
After all, there are many nights when the seeing just isn't good enough for imaging. You all know this. More bad or marginal nights than good, in fact. Why not spend that time with your naked eyes or binoculars? Plenty of time for it, and your eyes and binoculars won't notice the bad seeing that the camera would.
Now, if your attitude is "Im going to do imaging, or no astronomy at all", then we have come to the end of our discussion of what to do with one's astronomy time, haven't we? Bad seeing nights are filled with TV, or something else much more interesting than learning the sky, apparently. You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast.
Understand that what I'm trying to do is open doors. Those refusing to learn a basic aspect of astronomy such as the constellations are operating under a misunderstanding, at least, and terribly cheating themselves, at most. I want young people, especially, to know that it's not an "either-or" situation. They CAN have it all.
Why outright dismiss learning something about the science, the hobby? Why not take it a little at a time? Just say "I'm working on it, as time permits". Why throw the very idea out, wholesale? Makes no sense at all.
My 2 cents. Ok, a buck and a half, lol.
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On 9/6/11, David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point. You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance. I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper.
Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection.
You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his. Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy.
I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did.
I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally. I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy. Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off". Cheers, - David On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper.
Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection.
You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy.
I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did.
I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Thanks for the support, David. But com'on all, we're friends here -- just disagreeing in a fun round of ragging each other over differing ideas. Let's not take offense. I enjoy debate even when my position is dumped on. (After all, I KNOW I'm right!) -- Joe ________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy. Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off". Cheers, - David On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper. Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection. You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy. I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did. I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
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I agree Joe. Just expressing my distaste for such childish and rude commentary. I am done. :) - David On 9/6/2011 12:41 PM, Joe Bauman wrote:
Thanks for the support, David. But com'on all, we're friends here -- just disagreeing in a fun round of ragging each other over differing ideas. Let's not take offense. I enjoy debate even when my position is dumped on. (After all, I KNOW I'm right!) -- Joe
________________________________ From: David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy.
Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off".
Cheers,
- David
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper.
Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection.
You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy.
I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did.
I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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And another thing Joe, Get rid of that Jeep. You can't really appreciate driving if you are not in a Mazda.Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:41:21 -0700 From: josephmbauman@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Thanks for the support, David. But com'on all, we're friends here -- just disagreeing in a fun round of ragging each other over differing ideas. Let's not take offense. I enjoy debate even when my position is dumped on. (After all, I KNOW I'm right!) -- Joe
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy.
Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off".
Cheers,
- David
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper.
Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection.
You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy.
I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did.
I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
Mazda! Hah! ________________________________ From: Steve Fisher <iotacass1@hotmail.com> To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd And another thing Joe, Get rid of that Jeep. You can't really appreciate driving if you are not in a Mazda.Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:41:21 -0700 From: josephmbauman@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Thanks for the support, David. But com'on all, we're friends here -- just disagreeing in a fun round of ragging each other over differing ideas. Let's not take offense. I enjoy debate even when my position is dumped on. (After all, I KNOW I'm right!) -- Joe
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy.
Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off".
Cheers,
- David
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper. Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection. You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy. I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did. I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
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Do you mean a Ford Explorer or a Wilderness Explorer like Russell in UP? I'm assuming the former. Steve
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:33:36 -0600 From: chuck.hards@gmail.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mazda! Hah!
At least I owned a Landcruiser and currently own an Explorer! Hah! yourself!
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My 2 cents, seems we have Astronomers that like to photograph and those that just like observing. I take my hat off to those who photograph, it takes skill, I lack the patience for it.
For those who like to observe, I do think finding objects without goto enhances the experience. You have to find alignment stars, finding Messier objects is not that much more difficult. The "coathanger" that started all of this is an interesting binocular target. Thanks for the support, David. But com'on all, we're friends here -- just
disagreeing in a fun round of ragging each other over differing ideas. Let's not take offense. I enjoy debate even when my position is dumped on. (After all, I KNOW I'm right!) -- Joe
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy.
Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off".
Cheers,
- David
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper. Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection. You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy. I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did. I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
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Erik has made some good points. And now for my two cents. I don't usually get involved publicly with these types of discussions but I thought I'd share our experience. I don't know most of you although we are SLAS members and attended ALCON this year so perhaps we've met and/or I'd recognize you. My intent is definitely not to insult anyone, especially those who have much more experience than I do. John (my husband) and I began our astronomy journey a couple of years ago and we are constantly learning. Knowing the constellations definitely provided us a strong "geographical" foundation when observing the night sky (thanks, Dave Bernson and H.A. Rey!). I recommend to anyone starting out in astronomy to learn the constellations with the naked eye before purchasing a telescope. And studying basic astronomy is providing John and me with a much better understanding of what we're actually observing either with the naked eye or binoculars or telescope. So to me it's not about push-to or go-to. It's more about having some knowledge about the night sky and all of the incredible objects it contains to better enjoy the amateur astronomer experience. John used to do a lot of landscape photography, so I can understand the passion for astrophotography. I would think that knowing more about what you're photographing can only add to that passion. But as Jay (who has been an invaluable mentor to me) pointed out, everyone enjoys astronomy in the manner that works for them. Just as my husband considered himself an amateur photographer but knew very little about the geology that he was photographing, perhaps some of the astrophotographers are just that - photographers - and they don't consider themselves amateur astronomers. In which case I agree that they're missing out on a lot, but it is their choice to focus solely on the photography of the night sky. Nancy Matro On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM, <erikhansen@thebluezone.net> wrote:
My 2 cents, seems we have Astronomers that like to photograph and those that just like observing. I take my hat off to those who photograph, it takes skill, I lack the patience for it.
For those who like to observe, I do think finding objects without goto enhances the experience. You have to find alignment stars, finding Messier objects is not that much more difficult. The "coathanger" that started all of this is an interesting binocular target.
Thanks for the support, David. But com'on all, we're friends here -- just
disagreeing in a fun round of ragging each other over differing ideas. Let's not take offense. I enjoy debate even when my position is dumped on. (After all, I KNOW I'm right!) -- Joe
________________________________ From: David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy.
Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off".
Cheers,
- David
On 9/6/2011 12:16 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, David Rankin<David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
/So opinions that differ from you**perfect** logic are willing ignorance and mental laziness? Little on the judgmental side maybe?
"Perfect logic" are your words, not mine. A good sound bite, but you missed the point.
You and others have outright stated that my position of knowing the stars is a complete waste of time. I'm just holding up a mirror, my friend. Judgemental goes both ways in this instance.
I made a point of stating that I'm not advocating star-hopping over GoTo. My argument is strictly that of imploring people to take a path with rewards, sometimes intangible, sometimes concrete, that they are outright refusing to take, under a false assumption of it "wasting time".
I don't think any of us imagers would have a hard time finding the Big Dipper.
Hey, that's a great start. Keep up the good work!
/How is imaging lacking physical connection? The photons hit the eye, and are converted to some "digital image" by the brain in some process we don't fully understand. They hit my camera, my computer does it, and I then absorb that image into my brain in the same way but with even more information. I think digital imaging enhances my physical connection.
You should take that up with Brent. I'm not here to speak for him other than present his side of the "to each, his own" argument. It illustrated the other side of things. Brent obviously doesn't grasp your argument, and you don't grasp his.
Remember that I wrote that I enjoy imaging?
/"I can't see an interest in one aspect of astronomy meaning that others must be discarded./"
Again, I think this was just a matter of preference. False dichotomy.
I disagree. You are rationalizing your own position, but I think it's due to not fully understanding what I'm talking about. I am sure you are not against learning new things if they don't interfere with your core interests.
/"You're an astro-imager, exclusively, not a astronomer or astronomy enthusiast."
/Nothing to be ashamed of. Just because someone drew pictures in the sky doesn't mean I have to know them all to enjoy the sky the same way they do / did.
I never said it was a matter of shame. And I don't even visualize the "pictures" as you are projecting I and others do. I'm merely talking about knowing what is where. They are geometric patterns to me, with no animals or other "art" cluttering it up mentally.
I'm still in the dark as to why some people refuse to learn.
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On 9/6/11, Nancy Matro <nancy.matro@gmail.com> wrote:
Erik has made some good points. And now for my two cents.
Thanks for that, Nancy, very well put. I want to repeat that I was never debating Goto vs. PushTo (star hopping). My little rant was only in favor of learning the sky, and failing to personally see validity with the reasons why some people elect not to. In retrospect, I think some people missed that. My intention was to break-down misconceptions, not insult. My apologies.
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway. ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd On 9/6/11, Nancy Matro <nancy.matro@gmail.com> wrote:
Erik has made some good points. And now for my two cents.
Thanks for that, Nancy, very well put. I want to repeat that I was never debating Goto vs. PushTo (star hopping). My little rant was only in favor of learning the sky, and failing to personally see validity with the reasons why some people elect not to. In retrospect, I think some people missed that. My intention was to break-down misconceptions, not insult. My apologies. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
We all know that that Pathfinder is the best Astro Junk carrier of them all. A thought to remember: Those who are offended when offense is not intended are fools. Those who are offended when offense is intended are greater fools. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
On 9/6/11, Nancy Matro <nancy.matro@gmail.com> wrote:
Erik has made some good points. And now for my two cents.
Thanks for that, Nancy, very well put.
I want to repeat that I was never debating Goto vs. PushTo (star hopping). My little rant was only in favor of learning the sky, and failing to personally see validity with the reasons why some people elect not to. In retrospect, I think some people missed that. My intention was to break-down misconceptions, not insult.
My apologies.
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-- Jay Eads
I RESENT THAT!!! (Oops....) ________________________________ From: Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd We all know that that Pathfinder is the best Astro Junk carrier of them all. A thought to remember: Those who are offended when offense is not intended are fools. Those who are offended when offense is intended are greater fools. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd
On 9/6/11, Nancy Matro <nancy.matro@gmail.com> wrote:
Erik has made some good points. And now for my two cents.
Thanks for that, Nancy, very well put.
I want to repeat that I was never debating Goto vs. PushTo (star hopping). My little rant was only in favor of learning the sky, and failing to personally see validity with the reasons why some people elect not to. In retrospect, I think some people missed that. My intention was to break-down misconceptions, not insult.
My apologies.
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-- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 9/6/11, Jay Eads <jayleads@gmail.com> wrote:
We all know that that Pathfinder is the best Astro Junk carrier of them all.
Hey, my Explorer has "PushTo" features on occassion. When it's in that mode, I often tell it to "GoTo". How's that for an astronomy mule?
A thought to remember:
Those who are offended when offense is not intended are fools. Those who are offended when offense is intended are greater fools.
And I am a fool for not picking my words more carefully. You are wise, Jay.
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
Well, I didn't intend it to be roughhouse. Frank, but not brutal. There's a difference. Joe, I am going to teach you the sky before I die. And I promise not to waste any of your imaging time. I may pull in Dave Bernson as color commentator. Deal? ;-)
Ignorant and lazy? OK, I’ll buy that. There’s 88 constellations. I can, barely, count to 88 much less remember that many things. I know I wouldn’t have to know all 88 to be effective in my pursuit of astronomy in the Northern Hemisphere, but I try to be thorough. However, procrastination and laziness win every time. Ask my wife about me mowing the lawn. What I’ve decided is that in our twilight years, when Joe and I are about as old as Chuck, we can sit on the porch of the old folks’ home and learn the constellations. We won’t remember any more of them than we do, now, but it will be something to pass the time before they wheel us back to our rooms. Dave On Sep 6, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
Well, I didn't intend it to be roughhouse. Frank, but not brutal. There's a difference.
Joe, I am going to teach you the sky before I die. And I promise not to waste any of your imaging time. I may pull in Dave Bernson as color commentator.
Deal? ;-)
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Joe growing as old as Chuck? Now that would be quite a feat! Start counting backwards Joe and you have a chance.
Ignorant and lazy? OK, Ill buy that. Theres 88 constellations. I can,
barely, count to 88 much less remember that many things. I know I wouldnt have to know all 88 to be effective in my pursuit of astronomy in the Northern Hemisphere, but I try to be thorough. However, procrastination and laziness win every time. Ask my wife about me mowing the lawn. What Ive decided is that in our twilight years, when Joe and I are about as old as Chuck, we can sit on the porch of the old folks home and learn the constellations. We wont remember any more of them than we do, now, but it will be something to pass the time before they wheel us back to our rooms.
Dave
On Sep 6, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
Well, I didn't intend it to be roughhouse. Frank, but not brutal. There's a difference.
Joe, I am going to teach you the sky before I die. And I promise not to waste any of your imaging time. I may pull in Dave Bernson as color commentator.
Deal? ;-)
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I know, I was being facetious. Chuck just seems older than both of us put together. Oh, that was hurtful. Dave On Sep 6, 2011, at 4:28 PM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Joe growing as old as Chuck? Now that would be quite a feat! Start counting backwards Joe and you have a chance.
Ignorant and lazy? OK, I’ll buy that. There’s 88 constellations. I can,
barely, count to 88 much less remember that many things. I know I wouldn’t have to know all 88 to be effective in my pursuit of astronomy in the Northern Hemisphere, but I try to be thorough. However, procrastination and laziness win every time. Ask my wife about me mowing the lawn. What I’ve decided is that in our twilight years, when Joe and I are about as old as Chuck, we can sit on the porch of the old folks’ home and learn the constellations. We won’t remember any more of them than we do, now, but it will be something to pass the time before they wheel us back to our rooms.
Dave
On Sep 6, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
Well, I didn't intend it to be roughhouse. Frank, but not brutal. There's a difference.
Joe, I am going to teach you the sky before I die. And I promise not to waste any of your imaging time. I may pull in Dave Bernson as color commentator.
Deal? ;-)
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I guess that means he is wise beyond his years.
I know, I was being facetious. Chuck just seems older than both of us put
together. Oh, that was hurtful.
Dave On Sep 6, 2011, at 4:28 PM, erikhansen@thebluezone.net wrote:
Joe growing as old as Chuck? Now that would be quite a feat! Start counting backwards Joe and you have a chance.
Ignorant and lazy? OK, Ill buy that. Theres 88 constellations. I can,
barely, count to 88 much less remember that many things. I know I wouldnt have to know all 88 to be effective in my pursuit of astronomy in the Northern Hemisphere, but I try to be thorough. However, procrastination and laziness win every time. Ask my wife about me mowing the lawn. What Ive decided is that in our twilight years, when Joe and I are about as old as Chuck, we can sit on the porch of the old folks home and learn the constellations. We wont remember any more of them than we do, now, but it will be something to pass the time before they wheel us back to our rooms.
Dave
On Sep 6, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Chuck Hards wrote:
On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
Well, I didn't intend it to be roughhouse. Frank, but not brutal. There's a difference.
Joe, I am going to teach you the sky before I die. And I promise not to waste any of your imaging time. I may pull in Dave Bernson as color commentator.
Deal? ;-)
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Deal! Have fun trying to teach this old dog any new tricks .... ________________________________ From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Push vs go-to -- was Re: Comet Garradd On 9/6/11, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@yahoo.com> wrote:
No insult perceived, Chuck. I love roughhouse discussions anyway.
Well, I didn't intend it to be roughhouse. Frank, but not brutal. There's a difference. Joe, I am going to teach you the sky before I die. And I promise not to waste any of your imaging time. I may pull in Dave Bernson as color commentator. Deal? ;-) _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
OK. since I'm the one who started this whole mess I guess it's time for me to clarify my position. I am deeply offended by any opinion that isn't exactly the same as my own very narrowly defined opinions. And furthermore I'm going to take my dolly an dishes and go home where I can play alone with my cardboard refrigerator without any of you being there. harumph. DT
And your Magic Bake Oven too?
OK.
since I'm the one who started this whole mess I guess it's time for me to clarify my position. I am deeply offended by any opinion that isn't exactly the same as my own very narrowly defined opinions. And furthermore I'm going to take my dolly an dishes and go home where I can play alone with my cardboard refrigerator without any of you being there. harumph. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
On 9/6/11, David Rankin <David@rankinstudio.com> wrote:
Good sound bite eh? I was just speaking at what you were implying. People that don't agree with you are ignorant and lazy.
Let me be the first to stand up and say, "Screw off".
Well then, there it is. Ignorant and lazy overall? I never implied that at all. Only on the matter of refusing to learn something new, in the context of this discussion. When their assumptions are not correct, and they aggressively refuse to examine contrary evidence, or in this case, friendly advice from a 42-year astronomy veteran trying to open doors. Hell, in the case of Joe and I (and Joe knows I mean no harm to him, we've been bandying this back and forth for years) it's become more of a running joke, than anything. I say "learn", he says "I'm too busy", and we both laugh. Go ahead and refute my position,my conclusions, we can argue that and if I'm dead wrong, I'll admit it. But make sure you take it in context and as presented. You're reading a lot into this that just isn't there. Obviously I touched a nerve, David, and if you are offended, I appologize. I don't retract anything I stated, but I do feel badly for not communicating with you effectively in this instance. My failure. Many times in school I was presented with the term "mental laziness" by my teachers, when faced with a task I thought worthless or not pertinent to what turned out to be a larger issue. They were right, I was wrong often, and the term is perfectly appropriate in this instance, when applied broadly and not to an individual, per se. Just delete my posts, unread, in the future. Please.
I checked to be sure but you are correct, Charles Messier did not have a hand controller. I also found out that he did not drive his four door Hybrid to the observatory any of the nights he observed. Perhaps it was because neither of them were invented yet. (just sayin') Steve > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 15:56:41 -0700
From: outwest112@yahoo.com To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
You don't need exact coordinates if you have a telescope with "push-to" pointing technology.á Just point at the coathanger asterism and do a slow spiral search along it's southern edge going farther and farther out with each pass.á Unfortunately with motor driven telescopes this seems to be a lost art.á People with hand controls just can't do a simple spiral search.á How do you think Charles Messier did his searches for comets?á Not with a hand controller, that's for sure. á DT
From: Rodger C. Fry <rcfry@comcast.net> To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
Siegfried,
Here are the coordinates for tonight.
á á á Dateá á á á RAá á á Decá á Suná á Earthá Magá Elongá Coná á Rise á á á á á á á á hr miná á degá 'á AUá á AUá á á á á á degá á á á á á pm á á 1 Jul 2011á 22 42.7á +02 29á 2.759á 2.163á 10.1á á 115.8á Aqrá 10.33 pm á á 8 Jul 2011á 22 32.9á +04 24á 2.693á 1.996á 9.8á á 123.5á Pegá 10.03 pm á 15 Jul 2011á 22 20.6á +06 25á 2.625á 1.843á 9.5á á 131.1á Pegá á 9.30 pm á 22 Jul 2011á 22 04.9á +08 37á 2.558á 1.705á 9.2á á 138.7á Pegá á 8.54 pm á 29 Jul 2011á 21 44.8á +10 54á 2.492á 1.588á 9.0á á 145.4á Pegá á 8.15 pm á á 5 Aug 2011á 21 21.3á +13 09á 2.426á 1.498á 8.7á á 149.3á Pegá á 7.33 pm á 12 Aug 2011á 20 54.7á +15 14á 2.361á 1.435á 8.5á á 148.7á Delá á 6.47 pm á 19 Aug 2011á 20 26.1á +16 58á 2.297á 1.404á 8.3á á 143.3á Delá á 5.57 pm á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á á Set
á 26 Aug 2011á 19 57.1á +18 13á 2.233á 1.403á 8.2á á 134.8á Sgeá á 2.56 am á á 2 Sep 2011á 19 29.6á +18 59á 2.171á 1.429á 8.1á á 125.0á Sgeá á 1.58 am á á 9 Sep 2011á 19 04.8á +19 19á 2.110á 1.477á 8.1á á 115.0á Sgeá á 1.04 am
Rodger Fry
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried Jachmann Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:35 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Comet Garradd
What are tonigh's coordinate's? On Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM, "Chrismo" <djchrismo@gmail.com> wrote:
It's great when you finally get to see it though, isn't it? I'm constantly amazed every time I get to see a "new" (to me) object.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Raeburn Kennard <rkennard@kmclaw.com> wrote:
After several failed attempts beginning in mid-August, I was finally able last night to see Comet Garradd from my front yard in Draper through my 10" Dob. With the general light pollution of the valley, several street lights and my neighbor's new dark-activated decorative driveway lamp - for which he is so proud -(three high-watt, unshielded bulbs) I was barely able to see Sagitta with the naked eye. But, star-hopping from there with my trusty Telrad, I was able to just barely see the bluish-green smudge of the comet. Makes me appreciate more and more with each new comet what a major event Hale-Bopp was!
Raeburn Kennard
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participants (16)
-
Chrismo -
Chuck Hards -
Daniel Holmes -
daniel turner -
Dave Gary -
David Rankin -
erikhansen＠thebluezone.net -
Jay Eads -
Joe Bauman -
Larry Holmes -
Nancy Matro -
Patrick Wiggins -
Raeburn Kennard -
Rodger C. Fry -
Siegfried Jachmann -
Steve Fisher